Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Perception and Resistance to Existence Erasure

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

In Vol.1 of the LN, Veldora says this:

"Hmm… To tell the truth, I do not need any core at all… You can keep a secret, I trust? As I said, I am both unique and the most perfect of my kind. A fully unique creation, one that takes purely spiritual form. I have no particular attachment to this body. It is merely the faith of those who live around me that forms the shape you see."

Implying that the only reason that he looks the way he does, is because the people around him believe he takes that form, and thus he takes that form.

In the same Volume, Rimuru says this:

"If he simply burst out in spirit form, his essence would scatter to the winds like the magic itself, erasing his very existence. This would result in the birth of a new storm dragon, somehow, somewhere—I didn't care about the details by this point. But to sum up, maybe he could escape, but if he did, he'd wind up being something else. It wouldn't matter to him."

In the manga (which I was told is based off the LN), Hinata says something that goes along with this.

"In this holy magic barrier, magicule itself, becomes purified. Magic is the foundation of all monsters to maintain it's existence, and now you can't use most of your power. Inferior monsters would've been completely destroyed."

Thoughts?

 

[NeoSuperior]

Interesting. OK, I'll try to provide some lore-context here.

"I see; I see. Certainly, demons are strong against angels, angels against spirits, and spirits against demons. If selecting based on this three-way relationship, calling for a high-level spirit was the correct response. However [...] it is too young."
	~ Diablo, LN vol. 5​

So there seems to be a three-way relationship between these three types of beings, i.e. Elementals, Daemons and Angels. They seem to operate on different powers too. After Rimuru converted Ifrit into a full Elemental Spirit, he needed to be supplied with some sort of "Elemental Power" and Rimuru had to convert his magical energy into that.

Report. Using the unique skill Deviant, the higher-level elemental Ifrit has been separated into a pure elemental. Ifrit, transformed into a half monster, returned to full spirit form. I could use him to harness elemental magic, but I doubted it would work. Besides, a little ruse like that wouldn't save me. I needed something huge, something that'd throw my opponent for a total loop. "O Ifrit, greatest of elementals, defeat my enemy!!" Then I released him. The force of the elemental, going far above A rank, was tremendous, containing a massive amount of heat force. Elementals had to run on the magical force of the summoner, but Ifrit and I had a channel of magic running between us, so that was no problem. My energy converted itself into elemental force, flowing freely into the spirit.
	~ LN vol. 4​

It's not hard to deduce from this that Angel's probably have their own form of energy as well. Daemons like Diablo, of course, are nourished by magicules like monsters, considering their main forte is magic and they are in the same "demonic" category.

As for how this all relates to the topic at hand, it's mainly about Veldora's Species, which in the RAWs is called þ½£þ¿«(õ©èõ¢ìÞüûÚ¡öÚ£è). The þ½£þ¿« part, which literally means "Dragon Species" is generally translated as "True Dragon", which is probably some sort of Dragon Quest or D&D reference that I am not aware of. But the interesting part here is the õ©èõ¢ìÞüûÚ¡öÚ£è part instead. From that the õ©èõ¢ì part basically means "greater" or "superior" or "top". This prefix is also used for Ifrit's "Greater Spirit" species name (õ©èõ¢ìþ▓¥Ú£è) as well as well as for any Archdaemons/Greater Demon General (õ©èõ¢ìÚ¡öÕ░å).

Now what really stands out here is the ÞüûÚ¡öÚ£è part. In other threads I already mentioned that ÞüûÚ¡ö is a combination of holy and demonic and that the series itself already showed that this combination of Kanji can be read as "Chaos" for having opposite attribute. But this case is even more special since on top of having the holy attribute (representing Angels) and the demonic/magic attribute (representing Daemons/Monsters), this time it also includes the Elemental/Spirit attribute with Ú£è, so True Dragons, who are supposedly the "perfect beings", contain the powers of all three spiritual species.

First off Veldora passively emits magicules from which new monsters of demonic origin are born, like was the case with Rimuru. Veldora's body is made out of faith, which seems to be an aspect of the holy-element as stated by Shuna in LN vol. 6. Veldora is also a Spiritual existence, but more along the lines of Elementals who seem to have freedom to act of their own accord if they can maintain their existence, and not like the Daemons who also needs some sort of contract to exist in the material world.

In other words, True Dragons are some sort of "perfect Trinity" with the strengths of all spiritual existences and the weaknesses of neither of them. So in that sense Veldora is not really a monster and not bound by the same rules as monsters like Rimuru are.

There are also differences in-between the "demonic/magical" kind like the differences between the material Monsters/Magical Beings/Magic-Born (Ú¡öþë®/Ú¡öµùÅ/Ú¡öõ║║) and the immaterial Daemons (µé¬Ú¡öµùÅ).

From what can be observed from the more visual media, escpcially the anime, is that the more magic power/magicules a demonic species got, the less "biological" it is, like can be observed from the fact that any of the creatures within Veldora's cave basically didn't bleed at all. Escpacially observe how the Black Snake in anime ep. 2 within the cave didn't bleed at all (Veldora's Slime Observation Journal mentions how it's a "mutated version" that's Rank A, while the LN mentions that normally this Tempest Serpent is appearently an A-Minus Rank), while the regular Black Snake that Rimuru fights in the first opening was shown to bleed. From this context one can see that other than the monster aura and internal magicule reserves rising with greater strength, the more magicules the body has the less it relies on biological aspects.

Despite that having a body more reliant on magicule actually helps protect against anti-magicule measures like the holy barrier, which is rather contrary to what one might expect. Ultimately gaining strength, for any material demonic/magical creatures seems to converge to one goal though: Becoming a Demon Lord Seed and finally a True Demon Lord, though it's unclear whether Rimuru being able to transform between material and spiritual bodies is a trait of True Demon Lords in general or just a trait of his specific Demon Slime species. And it seems like Daemons can become True Demon Lords too.

But both material and immaterial demonic/magical species are under certain restrictions, like Daemons need some sort of anchor on the material plane to exist, usually obtained through contract and in most cases only ableto hold them in the material world temporarily, while Monsters have restrictions like being unable to lie, though that seems to be ineffective for higher-ranking monsters. Also regarless of material or immaterial all demonic/magical creatures, aside from those who were not born as such (like humans who became Magic-Born like Mjullan), all demonic/magical creatures start off as nameless beings who can be granted a name by someone else.

But I digress. I think that was more than enough for "context". (would like if someone could tell me what the name of the template is that can expand/hide text in a box, since I've seen it being used on this wiki before.)

Anyway, in regards to the conclusion, I am not really sure. Resisting something that can erase one's existence indeed seems like it's Resistance against Existence Erasure but I am unsure if the wiki views it like that too if it's about "taking away something neccessary for the existence itself" instead of outright "directly deleting the existence itself". I am not sure if I put that into words properly, but it really depends on how the "Existence Erasure" mechanic is treated on this wiki, so I'll wait for opinions of those who have more experience with that sort of things.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Fair enough.

 

[OpMasada]

I'm restraining from commenting for Neo's reasons.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

How do you all feel about the perception manipulation?

 

[OpMasada]

How do you all feel about the perception manipulation?

I don't think that applies.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Why so?

 

[NeoSuperior]

I previously tried to use the "materliazed body formed from belief/faith of what the Storm Dragon looks like" lines as a feat to prove Limited Conceptual Manipulation (type 4), but it was rejected.

As for it being Perception Manipulation? I am not sure. Actually I'd like to know myself how the whole "faith" thing is treated here. Maybe since "faith power" is stated to be related to the holy element, this might be a Holy Manipulation feat instead? At least for the LN version. Not sure if faith power and/or holy affinity were ever elaborated upon in the WN version.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Hmm. I see.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

LN Veldora doesn't even have a profile, neither will he get one for a while for not sure why he is brought up especially since what's said about him has nothing to do with resisting existence erasure since what's said is that he would be erased if he tried to escape from the infinite prison.

As for perception manipulation for Veldora he isn't exactly manipulating people's perception just that his body takes the form of ppl's faith, again LN Veldora doesn't have a profile nor will he get one for a while, so a it's pointless topic imo.

As for the other thing what's said is magicules are purified in the holy barrier, no magic and monsters die is basically how i interpret it, don't think that's the same as being literally erased from existence.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Hmm, alright.