Tekken CRT Part 2: stamina

[BlackDarkness679]

So this one will be a pretty quick one as last one lasted longer then it should have, so lets not waste anymore time here

Stamina needs to be handled for the characters as well and we have some feats for them which are those:

1) Nina and Anna battle before Tekken 5 lasting days = Very High

2) Jinpachi being imprisoned under the Hon-Maru for 40 years, holding the temple on his shoulders till he was freed = Extremely High (unless this is worth more)

As for who scales in question to which is as such:

2nd one scales to Jinpachi and those scaling to the Mishimas, even their casual base forms, meaning those that dont get this are: Anna, Nina, Jack, Law (both), Bruce, Ogre (both), Asuka, Lili, Alisa, Eliza, Kazumi, Josie and Lucky Chloe

1st one scales to those in Nina and Anna league, meaning those that dont get this are: Asuka, Lili, Lucky Chloe, Josie and Forest Law

That is all for this one

EDIT: As it was brought up here, i will include Bryan Fury having a statement in his story mode which points out the perpetual generator in him that gives endless power, it would scale only to him and just him, as thats unique for that character, if accepted, this would give him Infinite stamina

EDIT 2: So there are feats of stamina i found that are relevant for this, which would scale towards Mishimas only

One of them is Kazuya vs Heihachi final battle in Tekken 7, fighting in an active volcano, near lava gushing out, both going all out on each other till both eventually go to hit each other while trying to stand up to their feet, Kazuya ends it all after with something which will be covered in a future CRT for it

The other is when Jin defeated both Kazuya and Heihachi in the canon ending to Tekken 4, then later the two get attacked by Jacks not long after Jin took his leave from there, so they werent in top shape when they got attacked and later Heihachi also gets kamikazed by the group of Jacks

Heihachi explains here about the experience, interesting to note is that he points out that "Mishimas are invincible" which leads to the idea its a trait in the family, much like many other stuff like their powers you inherit in their bloodline, as such its fair to say those who are part of the Mishima heritage have equal/comparable levels of stamina, several times we saw them getting tired from each other

 

[SamanPatou]

Stamina ratings are arbitrary, so just use common sense with names and definitions. Very and extremely high can work, though.

The feats themselves are good, although I remember reading somewhere (maybe it was one of Harada's tweets) that Jinpachi was already dead by the time the demon possessed him. This should be checked and see if I remember well and if that other claim has priority over the intro of the game.

I don't like scaling stamina between characters, even if they are comparable in AP, unless there are strong reasons to say it does, and I think it isn't even something we do as a wiki, although I don't think it's written anywhere.
Basically I prefer not scale them in a so broad way because it mostly depends on factors unrelated to AP.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The feats themselves are good, although I remember reading somewhere (maybe it was one of Harada's tweets) that Jinpachi was already dead by the time the demon possessed him. This should be checked and see if I remember well and if that other claim has priority over the intro of the game.

Jinpachi says in Lei story he died shortly after Heihachi locked him down, then got possessed and stood there all those years till he got freed from the Jacks explosion

I don't like scaling stamina between characters, even if they are comparable in AP, unless there are strong reasons to say it does, and I think it isn't even something we do as a wiki, although I don't think it's written anywhere.
Basically I prefer not scale them in a so broad way because it mostly depends on factors unrelated to AP.

Not really based on AP per say, but like how they went against each other, like some will fight without tiring, others will take effort

At the end of the day if they had shit stamina vs somebody, AP wouldnt be relevant

 

[SamanPatou]

Jinpachi says in Lei story he died shortly after Heihachi locked him down, then got possessed and stood there all those years till he got freed from the Jacks explosion.

Then I'm not sure how much is due to Jinpachi's own physique and what's because of the demonic enhancenements. The feat is still a feat, though.

Not really based on AP per say, but like how they went against each other, like some will fight without tiring, others will take effort

At the end of the day if they had shit stamina vs somebody, AP wouldnt be relevant

They don't need to have comparable stamina to either fight or put others in jeopardy or force them to use effort, there are a lot of factor involved in a fight that can tax one's stamina. And still, to fight one with very high stamina you just need to have good stamina on your own, even for a short battle, and all Tekken characters are trained fighters (when they aren't monsters, animals or a mix of all of these), meaning they have a good stamina by default.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Then I'm not sure how much is due to Jinpachi's own physique and what's because of the demonic enhancenements. The feat is still a feat, though.

The Jinpachi pre-tekken 1 would upscale from Nina and Anna feat, as Mishimas and comparable characters are still above them, but that one is irrelevant to his game appearances

They don't need to have comparable stamina to either fight or put others in jeopardy or force them to use effort, there are a lot of factor involved in a fight that can tax one's stamina. And still, to fight one with very high stamina you just need to have good stamina on your own, even for a short battle, and all Tekken characters are trained fighters (when they aren't monsters, animals or a mix of all of these), meaning they have a good stamina by default.

All fights are pretty much h2h, few involve anything then that, imo its safe for them to have comparable stamina

 

[SamanPatou]

I'm still iffy on scaling stamina between characters, as I think it derives more from one's personal physique, willpower etc.

More inputs are required.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Mind if you ask some to comment?

 

[SamanPatou]

I'll call all people who commented the previous CRT and some supporters.

@SirAlex09 @azontr @Oleggator @Zencha9 @TISSG7Redgrave @ChocomilkAlex @NotoriouSoda @GyroNutz @LordGriffin1000 @Armorchompy @ZoroNotZolo @KingTempest @QuasiYuri @Ecstasy_Amphetamine @Chariot190

 

[azontr]

There's nothing wrong with the feats themselves, is all I will say.

I cannot comment on scaling as of now, since I'm tired out of my mind.

 

[Oleggator]

Well, I'll be honest Jack and Alisa doesn't... Wait a second they don't have limitless even though they're robots? Kek.

But without delaying main discussion, it could be seem weird to scale some cast to Jinpachi, at first. However I think Mishimas should scale at least because of genes. There's no anti-feats so seems fine.

Mid tiers scaling shouldn't be problematic either.

 

[SamanPatou]

Well, I'll be honest Jack and Alisa doesn't... Wait a second they don't have limitless even though they're robots? Kek.

Robots don't have infinite stamina just because they are machine, and it's also against the rules of the wiki to give it to them if there aren't explicit statements about them not running out of energy.

This because many robots still have a source of energy, either electricity, fuel or whatever, and might still have the need to rest or something because fiction is fiction.

Another problem with stamina scaling is that if we allow it for Tekken, then we have to do it for many other verses, and it might require a wiki-wide revision or establishing a new rule.
Nothing impossible, innovations are made, but before applying it to Tekken (assuming it is accepted) another thread has to be made, as currently there aren't guidelines or rules about it.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I cannot comment on scaling as of now, since I'm tired out of my mind.

A thread about tier list of the verse will be made soon to place all relevant characters of the series

 

[BlackDarkness679]

But without delaying main discussion, it could be seem weird to scale some cast to Jinpachi, at first.

Jinpachi in human and demon forms is mid tier (prolly the strongest in that range), except his final form which is high tier

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Robots don't have infinite stamina just because they are machine, and it's also against the rules of the wiki to give it to them if there aren't explicit statements about them not running out of energy.

This because many robots still have a source of energy, either electricity, fuel or whatever, and might still have the need to rest or something because fiction is fiction.

Bryan has a statement of a perpetual generator giving him endless power, was brought up 1-2 years ago, only Ant commented and was present on that and said extremely high at best from it

Another problem with stamina scaling is that if we allow it for Tekken, then we have to do it for many other verses, and it might require a wiki-wide revision or establishing a new rule.
Nothing impossible, innovations are made, but before applying it to Tekken (assuming it is accepted) another thread has to be made, as currently there aren't guidelines or rules about it.

Kinda dislike that there meeds to be more waiting tho, as this wont be something that takes a blink of an eye to be done

 

[SamanPatou]

Bryan has a statement of a perpetual generator giving him endless power, was brought up 1-2 years ago, only Ant commented and was present on that and said extremely high at best from it.

That could be brought up once again and added it to the op, I don't see problems with it.

Kinda dislike that there meeds to be more waiting tho, as this wont be something that takes a blink of an eye to be done

My main concern is to avoid making double standards, as stamina scaling between comparable characters would affect the wiki in its entirety.

 

[Zencha9]

I agree
Also fair enough on the stamina scaling part i'll stay Neutral on that until it gets clarified

 

[BlackDarkness679]

That could be brought up once again and added it to the op, I don't see problems with it.

Will add it then too, tho on that one not sure if they should scale to Bryan, as its sorta a thing unique on him that gives such a thing, sorta like the Androids in dragon ball having limitless stamina cuz its something unique on them

My main concern is to avoid making double standards, as stamina scaling between comparable characters would affect the wiki in its entirety.

I know, im saying such a wiki wide change will take a while till its handled as its a big deal and aint gonna be done overnight

 

[SamanPatou]

Will add it then too, tho on that one not sure if they should scale to Bryan, as its sorta a thing unique on him that gives such a thing, sorta like the Androids in dragon ball having limitless stamina cuz its something unique on them.

Yeah, that would totally apply only to him.

I know, im saying such a wiki wide change will take a while till its handled as its a big deal and aint gonna be done overnight

I'm making a question thread first, if stamina scaling gets rejected then there will not be any wiki-wide revision.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Yeah, that would totally apply only to him.

Good

I'm making a question thread first, if stamina scaling gets rejected then there will not be any wiki-wide revision.

Let me know how it goes

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Feats look fine. Not sure on the scaling.

 

[SamanPatou]

The Stamina revision is over, and that settles that stamina should be scaled so easily.

That said, the feats are good but only for those who performed them.

I could have seen Jinpachi's scaling to others if the merit was of the devil gene, but unfortunately that's not the case.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Ok, from a quick look atm at it, would those like the Mishimas be fine and with the devil gene scale from Jinpachi? They share traits in hax and resistance cuz of having the same bloodline/power too, so what about in stamina?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The rest will need a little wait to sort things out

 

[SamanPatou]

Ok, from a quick look atm at it, would those like the Mishimas be fine and with the devil gene scale from Jinpachi? They share traits in hax and resistance cuz of having the same bloodline/power too, so what about in stamina?

Jinpachi doesn't have the devil Devil Gene, though, and just sharing the same bloodline alone isn't enough.

I mentioned the Devil Gene because it's a sort of mutation, so if Kazuya had a good stamina feat that comes from that, it could apply to Jin too and viceversa.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

All i can think of from kazuya or jin, is kazuya fighting Paul for hours in 1st game (tho didnt found anywhere stating it around afaik) and Wang saying the devil gene has infinite power

 

[BlackDarkness679]

In general for the cast i guess is looking at fights they had where they tire or hold it out in some

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Well for the moment to settle the obvious

Nina and Anna fighting for days scales to both and Jinpachi one to him, on that it can be agreed can it?

 

[SamanPatou]

That can totally be agreed with.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well for the moment to settle the obvious

Nina and Anna fighting for days scales to both and Jinpachi one to him, on that it can be agreed can it?

I agree with this as well.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

ok so 2 agreements so far

also included Bryan statement of having infinite stamina in the OP too

 

[LordGriffin1000]

If the generator is giving "endless power" in regards to his Stamina then i agreed with infinite stamina.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Can we get more input here on the points that we can surely add if agreed, to get those out of the way

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

Also soon i might post some other noteworthy stamina showings on Mishimas, maybe Xiao and Alisa too, unless i find more while rechecking around, this thread could be done afterwards

 

[SamanPatou]

I agree with Bryan's perpetual generator, the statement about "endless power" also backs it up.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Then what was suggested earlier can be applied? Talking of this

Well for the moment to settle the obvious

Nina and Anna fighting for days scales to both and Jinpachi one to him, on that it can be agreed can it?

And also Bryan instance

Or needs a bit more input

 

[BlackDarkness679]

added new stuff to the OP, after those are talked out and decided, the thread is done, so would appreciate input

 

[Oleggator]

Something tells me the last one would be iffy to others, but to me so far everything seems fine.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Prolly, but i think its fair to make it as such, when they go physically they dont make each other lights go out, unless it was due to certain factors and circumstances into play

 

[SamanPatou]

The ending of T7 and the Jack gauntlet are good stamina feats. I'm iffy about taking Heihachi's statement as literal, but maybe it can be used to say they naturally have high stamina, although not necessarily comparable to each other.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

It wouldnt be a stretch to say between them is comparable, there arent cases were one worn the other out in a prolonged fight physically, to do such they resort to other means