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Tales Series Discussion Thread

Whenever someone decides to pick it up, it should probably be reposted on the newest calc request thread.
 
Ludger I think is mostly shipped with Alt Milla and his future wife. And Muzet is also shipped with Gaius? Idk lots of ships in these games.
 
The Divine Phoenix said:
As weird as this may sound, would Elle be considered part of Ludger's standard equipment?
Click to expand...
Errr, maybe a separate key, with Key of Kresnik, since that stops his weakness of turning into a catalyst? Julius pocket watch may also quaitify as part of his equipment.
 
I'm not sure how to separate the keys for Ludger, the current profile has it seperated by base and levels of Chromatus, which is fairly reasonable, having a seperate key with Elle there wouldn't make that much sense.
 
The Divine Phoenix said:
I'm not sure how to separate the keys for Ludger, the current profile has it seperated by base and levels of Chromatus, which is fairly reasonable, having a seperate key with Elle there wouldn't make that much sense.
Click to expand...
Then I suppose it makes sense to assume Elle is on his side for most battles, although he never uses her power when in his Level 3 or 4 form, so I don't know if we can make assumptions for that.
 
He does still use her power in Level 3, it's stated that he was capable of linking with Elle from across worlds, the only level where he stops using Elle is the complete chromatus.
 
Yeah I suppose we can make Elle "standard equipment" then, although if morals were on, and Ludger knows Elle is the key, this could be a weakness making him unable to use the Chromatus in certain battles.
 
Ludger does still use the Chromatus when neccesary even after discovering the truth, he just probably uses it less.
 
Should we assume that Level 4 Chromatus is without Elle, especially as a Level 4 Chromatus is known to almost instantly turn you into a catalyst?
 
Another thing, the Xillia Low 2-Cs will likely have a fairly hefty scaling chain too, with Complete Chromatus Ludger at the very top of that.
 
Mk22Solid3 said:
Should we assume that Level 4 Chromatus is without Elle, especially as a Level 4 Chromatus is known to almost instantly turn you into a catalyst?
Click to expand...
Level 4 Chromatus should be assumed without Elle imo, it was only ever used after Ludger made a direct pact with the watch, it's also the most dangerous to use as the raw power turns you into a catalyst fairly quickly, this wouldn't affect much in an actual VS Match though, as becoming a catalyst wouldn't kill Ludger.
 
The Divine Phoenix said:
Another thing, the Xillia Low 2-Cs will likely have a fairly hefty scaling chain too, with Complete Chromatus Ludger at the very top of that.
Click to expand...
So power wise I'm guessing it's this Origin>Complete Chromatus Ludger>Bisley Level 4>Chronos>Julius Level 3(Stated to be Crown, second most powerful Chromatus user)>Milla Maxwell(Maybe she can take on Julius? and soloed Muzet)>Jude with Maxwell spyrite>Muzet>Gaius>others.
 
Something along those lines, you missed Chronos though, the line also continues for a good bit there with Victor and other catalysts and waymarkers.
 
The Divine Phoenix said:
Something along those lines, you missed Chronos though, the line also continues for a good bit there with Victor and other catalysts and waymarkers.
Click to expand...
Victor at full power is probably around Ludger's max power as he managed to kill Bisley,Julius, cripple Gaius, kill Jude and the others at the same time, while Muzet and Milla I believe were in the sprit world and not killed. In the game, he's probably weakened and more powerful than Julius but weaker than Bisley in the prime dimension.
 
There is no implication that becoming a catalyst weakens you, Victor is stronger than fractured Bisley, Julius and the main cast, the prime dimension main cast, Chronos, Julius and Bisley are all above that. Full Chromatus Victor is weaker than 2nd Level Chromatus Ludger.
 
He may have also been in pain because he was in contact with his prime self, the process of becoming a catalyst itself does seem to be painful, but that doesn't have to mean he's weaker, Victor probably would've noticed if he was suddenly vastly weaker than before, his mystic arte also has him claiming to have the full power of a complete chromatus.
 
Considering Julius was in pain as well in the bad ending cutscene, it seems to just be part of being a catalyst. Even if they are technically just as powerful as they were before being a catalyst, the pain of being a catalyst might have interfered in the battle somewhat.
 
I'd doubt it would interfere enough to make much of a difference, again, Victor in his mystic arte claims to possess the full power of the complete chromatus and he would likely be aware if he was becoming weaker.
 
Well, it could be he was cocky since he had the Complete Chromatus, and figured Ludger didn't have that form, plus being a catalyst seems to also make you mentally nuts as well. But there is no direct statement saying it makes you weaker, so I'll concede.
 
Dunno, haven't played Symphonia, but he did murder all of his friends and wanted to kill and replace his other self and then ask to be reborn just so he could be with his daughter.
 
Something interesting is that Xillia sorta operates on jojo rules regarding two alternate selves meeting each other.
 
I like Magilou, although since the voice actress did both Futaba from Persona 5 and Magilou from Berseria in the same year, I always think of Futaba now.

Also I found proof that being a catalyst weakens you a lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DOntivumTs at 7:16 Rideaux says "You're much weaker than I remember. Could it truely have gotten worse?" And at 16:50 in this video, against the Seafall Phantom, Julius is knocked out in one shot against the monster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYlRr795XskThis concludes with 0:39 in the bad ending cutscene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdaBu32Homk where Julius falls to his knees. It should be noted that Victor was already a catalyst, while Julius was only on the verge of being a catalyst thoughout most of the story. Victor should have been weakened even more than Julius was.
 
Honestly, the weakening from catalysts doesn't matter all that much for scaling, it's either the catalyst made him weaker or he just plain was weaker in that dimension, the chain doesn't change. However, I would advise against using Julius as an argument here, he is by far the most inconsistent character in the game. He gets tossed around early on, but later manages to hold off Chronos and survive alone, where your entire party couldn't even scratch him, additionally, when you go to fight him at Marksburg, he is still capable of challenging Ludger.
 
It makes sense, while I agree Julius is somewhat inconsistant. NPC dialog shows that Julius was named "Crown" the second most powerful Chromatus bearer after Bisley. It's no surprise, he can handle Chronos. Plus he's the only character besides Bisley,Ludger, and Victor that can reach Level 3 Chromatus. Julius sometimes can't fight as well due to the catalyst weakening at times. That doesn't quite explain Ludger beating the catalyst Julius early in the game, but I'd say that was just for shock value. I have to use Julius as an agrument here, since he's the main use of the foreshadowing of being a catalyst.

It's not really the scaling that matters here I believe, but just I believe it should be taken into account as a Chromatus bearer weakness, especially since we are assuming Ludger's level 4 is without Elle, then catalyszing him makes him suffer more side effects other than just creating another dimension, the intense pain may interrupt him in the middle of battle.

Also I don't think this will impact much, but is Milla's feat of being put into the dimensional abyss described as a gap between dimensions important here? She describes it as a place without elements, meaning no space. I doubt it's a feat, since she said she was barely surviving with the power of the 4, and was in a coma like state, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Chronos is also the person that threw her into this abyss as well. I found it at 2:17 here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQxCPTow-A
 
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