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Swamp Thing vs Homura Akemi

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Starryknight200 said:
Over 150 posts on a thread I initiated (though had very little part in debating), and the first loss for a character with nine victories. That's a lot of FeelsGoodMan.
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TBH these Homura treaths are getting very tiresome sucking very big feedback that more important treaths deserve, with people saying: HOMUR4 STRONKEST 2-A CONF1RM!!!!11!!, I feel that people like those never heard about Shin Megami, Lavos and GEoM.
 
I'd like to ask where people are saying she's the strongest 2A.

Really, she's got so many wins because she's the perfect gap between someone who descisively wins or gets stomped.

Tho, it looks like we finally found a character who bridges that gap.
 
No one says that lol

And sorry to ruin your day guys...

But having asked Matt, it seems the Green of Lucifer's multiverse has another avatar that is not Swamp Thing (Essentially another incarnation of the Green).

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1037179

(He does spam duplication tho)
 
Because of the wins, I mean we put BB against decent 5-B that came from Earth to bust her wins, I would say that even ******* 5-A Goku would beat her. (Never quote me for this).

Tought there are a lot of characters that resis her hax.
 
@Fate I thought one of your points involved that? Pretty sure you quoted it specifically.

@Matt how so?
 
FateAlbane said:
Cutting the connection doesn't matter for ST, he can still use his powers even if that happens or if he is depowered or if the Green is extinguished.
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This only happened in Post-Flashpoint and that was because the Green still existed so it re-attached its connection to him.

Swamp Thing can very easily get depowered. John Constantine depowered God Swamp Thing with a spell.
 
If you mean the Multiverse part/Lucifer stuff, sure thing. I agree as I didn't use that as a main argument.

If you mean any other argument, it's basically a contradiction card you will be pulling as much of what I based all of my reasoning on is research extensively done by you.
 
I think you are misinterpreting part of my research, then.

I first don't see any way of Swamp Thing putting Homura down, so at best this is inconclusive.

You were using a feat from Post-Flashpoint Swamp Thing to argue for Classic Vertigo.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
This only happened in Post-Flashpoint and that was because the Green still existed so it re-attached its connection to him.

Swamp Thing can very easily get depowered. John Constantine depowered God Swamp Thing with a spell.
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Wasn't it said above that Classic can basically do anything the Post flashpoint one can do and then some?

This match was actually with Post-Flashpoint first and then changed to Classic as someone pointed out that PF was weaker and Classic had all the powers from PF and then some.

So there's really some contradiction card being pulled here. Also I have pointed this 10 times over: Homura's power drain is not infallible. It recquires physical contact for one and didn't turn the Law of Cycles into something innefectual as Madoka nearly came back to her senses right after.

At this point it's the reverse. Exaggerating Homura instead.
 
Dammit Matt, let someone beat Homura without a stomp ovo.

Wait, is Homura vs Dream Devourer's High End fair?? Nah. Don't wanna jump on the bandwagon, even if it is.

Still waiting for 2-A Poké so Arceus vs Homura can happe
 
"Wasn't it said above that Classic can basically do anything the Post flashpoint one can do and then some?"

Not everything. Classic has never demonstrated that feat.

"Classic had all the powers from PF and then some"

Not true. That's objectively false coming from the guy who researched and made the Swamp Thing profiles.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Also, Swamp Thing can spam duplication somewhat, but he has never created endless clones throughout the multiverse.
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You do realize in a 2-A match even one clone of the character is already more than enough to make a lot of trouble for the other, right? Especially when Homura is baseline so there's 0 gap for her to take advantage of.

If Swamp could spam anything like at best 5 clones which should be way lower than his limit, that would already be a massive point for overwhelming via numbers.
 
@Fate well technically, on the power drain case, Homura did reset the universe, altering history, and have an entire speech between draining Madoka's powers and the Law of Cycles entering her almost.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
"Classic had all the powers from PF and then some"

Not true. That's objectively false coming from the guy who researched and made the Swamp Thing profiles.
Click to expand...
This can literally be solved by the OP going back to the original Post Flashpoint then as the match originally before someone pulled the contradiction that Classic had everything from PF, as the only reason it was changed to classic was based on that in the first place.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I think you are misinterpreting part of my research, then.
I first don't see any way of Swamp Thing putting Homura down, so at best this is inconclusive.

You were using a feat from Post-Flashpoint Swamp Thing to argue for Classic Vertigo.
Click to expand...
And you say that based oooon...?

Homura has 0 regen and doesn't have reliable immortality at 2-A levels either. She is ridiculously easy to kill by 2-A defensive standards if you don't get oneshotted by her hax first.

Yes, you are overestimating Homura here.

She is a hundred times more offense than defense oriented than Madoka. And I'm arguing the Post Flashpoint feat for the exact reason I pointed out above: It was stated in the thread and actually changed from Post Flashpoint to Classic for that reason, which can be solved simply by the OP going back to the original match. As simple as that.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
"Homura's power drain is not infallible. It recquires physical contact for one and didn't turn the Law of Cycles into something innefectual as Madoka nearly came back to her senses right after."
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mnjBCYvonuE/Vmo8P0eratI/AAAAAAAAMhE/yLVfhXia9Lw/s1600-Ic42/RCO018.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rKsjy5BPGp8/Vmo8QAVZJII/AAAAAAAAMhQ/TtMqzMelsd0/s1600-Ic42/RCO019.jpg

^ John Constantine depowering incomplete God-Swamp Thing with magic wishing matches.
Click to expand...
So you're going to ignore the part where:

1. Madoka was 100% offguard when she was power drained.

2. She didn't want to strike back at Homura.

3. Homura needed direct physical contact, which you would have to actually assume ST will be thinking over the deeds of its life while she does her thing when it can, you know, fight back and duplicate.

4. She wasn't able to depower the Law of Cycles part as Madoka could come back to her Goddess Form right at the end of the movie not much later had Homura not Memory Haxxed her again?

Tell me who's exaggerating now?
 
I don't see how this is a win for Swamp Thing. He cannot put down a Nigh-Omnipresent Non-Corporeal Conceptual Being. Either in classic of PF.

At best Post-Flashpoint is a stalemate due to Regen.

But Homura could depower Swamp Thing. Homura could memory hax or mind hax Alec Holand who is very much a normal human with human limitations.

She could cut down his connection to the Green, turning him back into a normal human, and then memory hax him.

She could perhaps destroy the Green or put her Witch Barrier over it.
 
"I don't see how this is a win for Swamp Thing. He cannot put down a Nigh-Omnipresent Non-Corporeal Conceptual Being. Either in classic of PF."

Now you ignore the speed equalized part. And you don't need Conceptual Manipulation to put down Homura, you're making a lot of assumptions there based on 0 facts. She is NOT destroying the Green when she failed to do so to the Law of Cycles either nor did she manage to permanently depower Madoka. Memory Hax was different matter altogether.

I already covered the memory point above, going over that again would be a bore at this point.

For the I lost count time DEPOWERING. RECQUIRES. DIRECT PHYSICAL CONTACT. AND IS NOT PERMANENT.

Like seriously, it's like nobody watched Rebellion at this point.
 
1. Shouldn't matter given power drain would drain her whether or not she's on-guard.

2. But she could do nearly any one of her abilities to break free without hurting her.

3. True

4. Again true, but the time it would take for him to come back would be very high, resetting universe level high, which is enough for her to win

@Cal but she is non-corporal, which matters in this case.
 
Can Homura time travel? If she can she goes back in time and kills PF Alec Holand before he becomes Swamp Thing, since that version isn't Acausal.
 
@SD 1. Madoka had a lot of time to react to that. Instead she went "Homura stahp. Homura what you're doing? Stahp. Homura." *depowered*

2. She didn't want to. That much is rather clear. Even post depowering and memory hax Madoka came THIS close to returning to full power.

3 and 4. Yes, if Homura does manage to pull that which while I won't stop anyone from voting based on that, from my side of things I don't think it will be the case.
 
1. Maybe she couldn't do anything while being drained? She could easily become non-corporeal but couldn't.

2. Or maybe she simply couldn't? Between Homura's power-draining preventing her from using her abilities mid-drain (which is plausible, considering you know, she is power draining her.) and Madoka not using any powers for literally no reason, which is the more likely scenerio?

3 / 4. idk either, unless the guy is a physical brawler or min range fighter (Is he actually?)
 
@Matt 2-A version never used that in character as far as I'm aware.

Would be as out of nowhere as it gets but hey, that's literally "this character uses the best ability at the best possible moment to win as the planets align and the moon shines on the 13th day" kind of reasoning right there, partner.
 
Welp so much for Homura getting her first loss. This might either get closed and remade if the posts goes over the limit or inconclusive.
 
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