Superman vs Garou (GRACE)

[Vizer04]

Both at High 7-A and Speed Equalized.

Kal-El: 2 (@Malomtek and @GilverTheProtoAngelo)

Garou: 8 (@Emirp sumitpo, @Magmag, @NomsNoms, @GlaceonGamez471, @XSOULOFCINDERX, @sanicspood, @Franako and @King)

Inconclusive:

 

[Vizer04]

Bump ;~;

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[Nierre]

Ooh very interesting.. Garou fighting another hero. Following

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Which High 7-A Supes? Also Garou has a massive skill advantage and Supes really isn't gonna win at all in close combat

 

[Vizer04]

Which High 7-A Supes?

The strongest: SnyderVerse

Supes really isn't gonna win at all in close combat

He doesn't need to get close: Flight + Heat Vision

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Garou could just deflect heat vision, plus he can resist much stronger heat already.

 

[Vizer04]

Garou could just deflect heat vision, plus he can resist much stronger heat already.

But can he resist snow?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

How often does Superman use ice manip? Most of the time he goes for hand to hand combat, which that would instantly be his downfall.

 

[Vizer04]

How often does Superman use ice manip?

He goes and it freezes...

Most of the time he goes for hand to hand combat, which that would instantly be his downfall.

I wouldn't say instantly, plus, he can grab him and fly to space

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Garou could wrestle himself out of his grip with his LS advantage. Pus I doubt Garou is gonna just stand there and let Supes take him, especially when Garou has instinctive reaction.

The only wincons Supes has is BFR and Ice manip and Supes doesn't often use the latter and more often goes for hand to hand combat, which he stands no chance in. Also Garou could even evolve further to just overpower Supes, or even just use his dura neg to tear Supes from the insides with whirlwind cutting Iron fist. I vote Garou low-diff

 

[Malomtek]

Supes screams in anger, debilitating Garou. Then he beats Garou down, easy.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Supes screams in anger, debilitating Garou. Then he beats Garou down, easy.

Garou has far superior skill to Superman, Garou would easily figure out his fighting style and just overpower him there.

 

[Malomtek]

Garou has far superior skill to Superman, Garou would easily figure out his fighting style and just overpower him there.

I don't think Garou will be "figuring out" anything after his ears start ringing/bleeding because of Superman's scream.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Dude can just regen and evolve further. Plus how often does he use that.

 

[Malomtek]

Dude can just regen and evolve further. Plus how often does he use that.

Not fast enough to deal with Superman. And Superman can use that if Garou pisses him off enough.

Superman may or may not add on a heat vision blast in there as well, just for the general.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Heat Vision won't work on Garou that well. Plus Garou's immense pain tolerance means he would endure even after an earbleed. Combine with his regen and instinctive reaction Garou would beat down Superman before he even realizes it.

 

[Magmag]

Garou FRA

 

[Malomtek]

Heat Vision won't work on Garou that well. Plus Garou's immense pain tolerance means he would endure even after an earbleed. Combine with his regen and instinctive reaction Garou would beat down Superman before he even realizes it.

Garou's regen is low-mid and generally seems to take a while to activate, therefore it won't save him if Superman just up and tossing him into the Sun or a nuclear reactor. His instinctive reactions don't seem to be that good, if it doesn't same him from constantly getting his body pierced or crushed, and they would also be hard countered by Superman's super-senses, which allow him to see everything in his town at once when he was younger.

Superman has also fought foes with just as much, if not more combat training and/or experience than Garou, such as General Zod, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Steppenwolf, so Garou's fancy martial arts won't do him any good here.

I, of course, leave my vote for Superman.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Superman has also fought foes with just as much, if not more combat training and/or experience than Garou, such as General Zod, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Steppenwolf, so Garou's fancy martial arts won't do him any good here.

Garou is able to copy martial art techniques by simply looking at them, Supes hasn't faced an opponent like that

 

[Nierre]

Garou fra

he has huge pain tolerance superman isn't doing much here

 

[Malomtek]

Garou is able to copy martial art techniques by simply looking at them, Supes hasn't faced an opponent like that

That's more "power mimicry" and not "combat skill" per se.

 

[Magmag]

That's more "power mimicry" and not "combat skill" per se.

I mean he has the combat skill of canceling out your combat skill which i mean it is power mimicry but its still a combat skill.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well looking at it

Lifting Strength

Superman can casually overpower people who in some fashion scale to Doomsday/MoS Superman who can preform a 2.15315117803153e+11 kgf feat

Garou scales to two people who preformed a 4.000748046e+9 kilogram feat. Which is important since Bomb caught Garou's punch and all that.

So Superman is at the very least 53.81-107.63x times stronger. Or 4,268,211,995,272.446 times stronger with the Tectonic Plate feat. Garou cannot physically compete with Superman in a grappling contest.

Attack Potency

Garou upscales from a 837 Megaton attack and a 715.8 Megaton attack from characters who are vaguely agreed to scale to vaguely above baseline 1 Gigaton.

Superman while being actively weakened overpowered a 1.79 Gigaton beam. Then went on to get much stronger in the SynderCut to the point where a character who is stated to be superior to Doomsday was incapable of even damaging him with a axe attack.

Garou's scaling starts somewhere around 1 Gigaton while a much weaker Superman is slightly superior compared to the version being used here. So overall I'd say Sueprman has a solid AP edge but also not like, a "in one shot range" one. Though he is significantly more durable than Garou.

Skill

Garou has body reading and the ability to make predictions based on various factors. Now an issue I should mention here is that due to speed equalization Garou isn't going to be some auto-dodge monster in the same fashion that Awakened Cockroach would be, but it means that the amount of hits that Superman is solidly landing is significantly lowered since he has no skill feats of his own.

Garou isn't dominating a CQC fight at the start of the match due to the AP and LS difference, but if he lasts long enough there is a chance he closes the strength gap where at that point the fact he's landing dozens of hits to Superman's one will be a legitimate major factor.

Heat Vision speed scaling

Superman's heat vision is superior to his normal speed by some unknown vague amount. The pre-SynderCut key scales is scaling 23% SoL to 100% SoL, so Superman's heat vision is 4.347x times faster than his base speed, which means that for the match up his heat vision is 4.347x faster than both him and Garou. Now how good it is in the fight is debatable since his heat vision really doesn't have any temperatures that Garou couldn't withstand really.

Though in my view heat vision will rather consistently hit Garou for the following reasons:

• Orochi's heat beams hit him
• Rover's heat blasts hit him
• He was notably slower than all of Genos' heat beams and had to rely on visual cues to actually dodge them

Superman's heat vision can trigger just as fast as Rover's blasts or Orochi's beams and they have no clear windup like with Genos' heat cannons. Now if this matters in any real capacity is questionable since Superman is more punch than heat blast, though it should be noted that SynderSuperman is far more gritty than most versions of the character so him maiming Garou seems in-character.

Overall

If the match ends within a couple of relative minutes it would be Superman who ends it. With his superior AP and LS overcoming Garou's skill gap due to the oppressively nature of them with their scaling differences.

If the match doesn't end within a couple minutes then Superman likely loses to a death of a thousand cuts. At some point Garou will be just as strong as he is so his ability to inflict real damage will be questionable with the equally oppressive skill gap and his only real option is space BFR, which would require restraining Garou in a way he can't counter attack and flying up to space fast enough. Which while possible I question how realistic that is.

Overall idk, but if as the fight goes on I back Garou more than I do Superman. But if it doesn't go on Superman wins via swoleness.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Garou FRA

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Superman high diff wins as explained by Qwasdaf

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Garou wins Mid to High-Diff FRA because Superman's Skill is trash.

 

[sanicspood]

Garou fra

 

[Franako]

Garou fra

 

[Vizer04]

Does anyone wan to vote for Supes? There's still time...

 

[Qawsedf234]

Ngl I do wish we wouldn't count FRA comments that are literally just two words.

 

[King]

Ok, here we go now.
Firstly attack potency.
Garou can easily be scaled above the 837 Megaton feat considering Darkshine was able to overcome the HQ's durability easily and was defeated by garou who went on to get two more evolutions; getting substantially stronger each time. So he scales far above that feat. Superman gets no advantage here.
Lifting strength
Are we really gonna compare 3/4th monster garou to frickin' tank top master? Garou at this point one shots tank top with a finger. You just can't use this feat to scale him anymore.
There is no AP LS advantage that is actually fight ending.
I don't even need to argue regarding skill. It should be obvious at this point that garou is far superior.
The speed of the heat blasts matter less considering that Orochi and Rover's blasts have far greater AP than Superman's heat vision.
Plus, even if Superman is slightly superior in stats, Garou can overcome it in seconds via his haxed evolution. Darkshine sated that he was getting stronger and faster each MOMENT.
Voting Garou via superior skill, regeneration and reactive evolution and being comparable in terms of LS and AP.

 

[King]

Ok, here we go now.
Firstly attack potency.
Garou can easily be scaled above the 837 Megaton feat considering Darkshine was able to overcome the HQ's durability easily and was defeated by garou who went on to get two more evolutions; getting substantially stronger each time. So he scales far above that feat. Superman gets no advantage here.
Lifting strength
Are we really gonna compare 3/4th monster garou to frickin' tank top master? Garou at this point one shots tank top with a finger. You just can't use this feat to scale him anymore.
There is no AP LS advantage that is actually fight ending.
I don't even need to argue regarding skill. It should be obvious at this point that garou is far superior.
The speed of the heat blasts matter less considering that Orochi and Rover's blasts have far greater AP than Superman's heat vision.
Plus, even if Superman is slightly superior in stats, Garou can overcome it in seconds via his haxed evolution. Darkshine sated that he was getting stronger and faster each MOMENT.
Voting Garou via superior skill, regeneration and reactive evolution and being comparable in terms of LS and AP.

Garou can just tank his heat blasts.

 

[King]

Ngl I do wish we wouldn't count FRA comments that are literally just two words.

Well, some other arguments should also not be considered as they are using Hero Hunter Garou's feats for current manga garou.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Are we really gonna compare 3/4th monster garou to frickin' tank top master?

Actually the Class G ratings mentioned come from Bang/Bomb and Darkshine who' scales above them. TTM doesn't really enter the equation afaik.

Rover's blasts have far greater AP than Superman's heat vision.

Well actually only Orochi does and he was explicitly told to hold back. Rover's AP would be below Superman's

being comparable in terms of LS

That LS Gao is either 50x or over 4 trillion. It took Garou an entire foght with Darkshine to overcome something akin to a 2x lifting strength gap.

 

[King]

Actually the Class G ratings mentioned come from Bang/Bomb and Darkshine who' scales above them. TTM doesn't really enter the equation afaik.

Well actually only Orochi does and he was explicitly told to hold back. Rover's AP would be below Superman's

That LS Gao is either 50x or over 4 trillion. It took Garou an entire foght with Darkshine to overcome something akin to a 2x lifting strength gap.

• Tank Top Master LS =4.03981e+9 kg (Class G)

, this mentioned feat comes from Tank top master. Just check his page. Garou and and Darkshine scale far far above this.
Holding back orochi is still much more potent than an all out superman. Though rover's AP might be lesser his spamming it, does make it equally effective.
The difference between TTM and recent garou is not comparable at all. And no, it wasn't nearly a 2 times gap. It was far greater. Where did you come up with these numbers? 2 times?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Where did you come up with these numbers? 2 times?

Bang/Bomb struggled to preform a feat with a weight just as high as TTM and both were capable of grappling Garou.

Holding back orochi is still much more potent than an all out superman

It's not because he's holding back. Orochi would one shot Garou if he was any degree of serious but was told to not kill him. As such it's not a usable scaling feat since he dialed it down to the point where he would incapacitate Garou rather than kill him.

 

[King]

Bang/Bomb struggled to preform a feat with a weight just as high as TTM and both were capable of grappling Garou.

It's not because he's holding back. Orochi would one shot Garou if he was any degree of serious but was told to not kill him. As such it's not a usable scaling feat since he dialed it down to the point where he would incapacitate Garou rather than kill him.

Wrong, just wrong. Bang and Bomb were able to hold back a CHARGING elder centipede who weighs this much: 2.85803E+11 kg. Which is higher than Superman's lifting strength unless you consider the newspapers' report of lifting and pulling continents to be true. And now Garou is stronger than Bang or Bomb in physical strength.
I mean orochi and rover were still able to send huge tremors throughout city Z. Even if he was holding back, that's still a massive feat. Moreover, that was just half monster Garou and he is even more stronger now. So, my point still stands that Superman only has a slight advantage in physicals but gets nullified as Garou can get stronger in less than seconds.

 

[King]

It isn't about just raw physicals either as muscleheads usually have a hard time against someone as skilled as Garou. He can make superman punch himself by redirecting his attacks against him. He can also cut him with his whirlwind iron cutting fist. He can also overwhelm superman with the sheer number of blows using Cross fang Dragon Slayer fist. he can nullify Superman's movements by hitting his vitals. He also has durability negation, Better stamina and regeneration. Only thing going for Superman is LS and AP in which garou is not too far behind. There are just way too many ways that garou can defeat Superman.

 

[King]

It isn't about just raw physicals either as muscleheads usually have a hard time against someone as skilled as Garou. He can make superman punch himself by redirecting his attacks against him. He can also cut him with his whirlwind iron cutting fist. He can also overwhelm superman with the sheer number of blows using Cross fang Dragon Slayer fist. he can nullify Superman's movements by hitting his vitals. He also has durability negation, Better stamina and regeneration. Only thing going for Superman is LS and AP in which garou is not too far behind. There are just way too many ways that garou can defeat Superman.

BTW, hasn't GRACE ended already?