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Super Mario General Discussion Thread.

Galactidot said:
Oh that explains why Armorchompy is against the Reclusa CRT
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Actually, I'm against it because I think it's wrong.

If you're going to make unfounded claims about my motives I could very much do the same and say that it very much comes off as an attempt at drawing as high of a rating as someone feasibly could from a non-feat. But I know better than to assume, because it's a waste of time that just makes people upset. I should know, Mario supporters have been doing it for years regarding me by now.
Galactidot said:
No like why would someone go out of their way to make one for Mario, then claim the biggest victories in the franchise are outliers
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The biggest victories in the franchise are usually like, Mario stepping on a button and Bowser falling on lava, actually.
Galactidot said:
Mario/Paper Mario split?
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This isn't even an upgrade vs downgrade thing, I don't see what type of relation you're even drawing between the two.
Galactidot said:
Kirby has a primary comprehensive list for both of relatively equal length (both feats and anti-feats)
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Good for them? What does this have to do with anything.
Galactidot said:
Mario has a HUGE list of anti-feats, but no primary comprehensive list of feats.
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Actually I did try to make one back then. You are free to use it as basis to work on your own if you so wish.
Galactidot said:
Sonic doesn't seem to have a primary comprehensive list of feats, but it has absolutely NO list of anti feats whatsoever.
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If I had any interest in vs debating Sonic or really any interest in the Sonic franchise whatsoever outside of enjoying Mania, I would make one. Frankly I have my own suspicions about the verse's ratings, I just really don't care about it either.
 
Galactidot said:
Sonic doesn't seem to have a primary comprehensive list of feats, but it has absolutely NO list of anti feats whatsoever.
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The original Low 2-C upgrade thread long time back's got a bunch. (There's way more, even higher too, but it's still a good list of feats. Doesn't help that he's got access to NiGHTS scaling too, dream shenanigans)
vsbattles.com

Break Through It All! Low 2-C Modern Base Sonic CRT

The time has come. So this has been a long time coming, I feel. Coming off the heels of my first attempt at a Sonic CRT is a pretty big one, though perhaps not as insane or ludicrous, since I actually feel pretty confident in this one compared to the last one. So, here goes... everything I...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
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PsychoSSF2 said:
Why else? Bias.
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It's funny because it's been literally two years of children and manchildren in this thread basically just insulting me out in the open and if I ever reacted with anything more than mild annoyance people would be like "wow look how aggressive this guy is can you believe he hates mario that much".

Your funny woohoo plumber man is literally considered to be capable of destroying all life on the planet with a single attack on the website rn. Please shut up and stop acting like a massive injustice is being done and the rating is somehow unbelievably low.
 
Armorchompy said:
It's funny because it's been literally two years of children and manchildren in this thread basically just insulting me out in the open and if I ever reacted with anything more than mild annoyance people would be like "wow look how aggressive this guy is can you believe he hates mario that much".

Your funny woohoo plumber man is literally considered to be capable of destroying all life on the planet with a single attack on the website rn. Please shut up and stop acting like a massive injustice is being done and the rating is somehow unbelievably low.
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Also, gee, why did you think I deleted that comment? I knew it was the wrong thing to say so I fixed my mistake.
 
PsychoSSF2 said:
That happens in a total of six games.
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That is a lot more than biggest victories involving "obviously cosmic stuff is happening in a way that would obviously scale to the character". You can nitpick that if you want but I feel like most people wouldn't argue against the fact that valid or not most high tier Mario feats require a fair amount of interpretation.
PsychoSSF2 said:
Also, gee, why did you think I deleted that comment? I knew it was the wrong thing to say so I fixed my mistake.
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I didn't think anything at all, because I didn't see that you had. The forum doesn't upload in real time, and I didn't immediately hit send on the response. But thanks for assuming the worst of me again. If you want I can delete my comment and your response to it.
 
Up to you, I didn't appreciate the original post, but you deleting it is at least you recognizing it was out of line, which I can relate to because I've definitely speed-typed and then edited rude posts myself a few times - sometimes late enough that people saw the original version anyways.
 
Galactidot said:
Mario has a HUGE list of anti-feats,
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I mean i dont agree with the list either
Galactidot said:
but it has absolutely NO list of anti feats whatsoever.
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probably does if you nitpick (THIS IS NOT A JAB AT ANYONE)
Galactidot said:
Don't get too excited my dudes, people won't take this seriously like they do Sonic characters.
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Seems like an unwarranted callout. I can kinda see why but still. Feels a bit mean spirited? Maybe im too woke.
PsychoSSF2 said:
So, new Donkey Kong scans dropped.
https://marioisop.quora.com/New-scans-about-Donkey-kong-power
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Its another kirby infinite power thing and is hyperbolic.
 
Also in the mean time i get everyones furstration or confusion about tier 6 vsbw mario (Hell I attempted an upgrade thread) yada yada. Just know vsbw isnt definitive or should be taken as the gospel. All subjective you know the rest. Just please for not only yours but the verse supporters reputation. Keep it classy and respectful despite how you feel about a verse getting nuked.

Edit: Also granted i think armor going "man children!!!" Isnt helping either so both of you need to take a chillpill nd keep calm cause its 2015. 😎
 
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ZespeonGalaxy said:
Also in the mean time i get everyones furstration or confusion about tier 6 vsbw mario (Hell I attempted an upgrade thread) yada yada. Just know vsbw isnt definitive or should be taken as the gospel. All subjective you know the rest. Just please for not only yours but the verse supporters reputation. Keep it classy and respectful despite how you feel about a verse getting nuked.
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I say all of this cause I still care about the verse even if its where In its in a spot I think is, completely unfair. Doesnt mean im gonna talk down on the mods who agreed to the nuke. Its been almost 2 years. Please either rant about that subject on twitter, discord, reddit, just not here. I dont want the marioverse on vsbw to have a hostile or bitter reputation. Please. Do not kick the hornets nest and act surprised when the nest fights back.
 
Armorchompy said:
It's funny because it's been literally two years of children and manchildren in this thread basically just insulting me out in the open and if I ever reacted with anything more than mild annoyance people would be like "wow look how aggressive this guy is can you believe he hates mario that much".

Your funny woohoo plumber man is literally considered to be capable of destroying all life on the planet with a single attack on the website rn. Please shut up and stop acting like a massive injustice is being done and the rating is somehow unbelievably low.
Click to expand...
Okay, I'm sorry. But please calm down, I didn't mean direct aggression...

But please don't tell me to shut up yo...
 
Galactidot said:
Okay, I'm sorry. But please calm down, I didn't mean direct aggression...

But please don't tell me to shut up yo...
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This was a reply to Psycho, not your post. Regardless I'm fine, I just think it's annoying when people imply my downgrades are born of some deep bias rather than me just disagreeing with higher ratings, but it doesn't like, upset me. I mean I'm probably biased in the sense that everybody's biased, but I don't think that's what people mean lol.
 
For the record, I do sincerely understand why people would be annoyed at the ratings not being what they are, I think at least some of the higher tier feats can be fairly interpreted as viable, and it's just a matter of how much weight you give to anti-feats. So like, by some metric higher ratings than tier 6 are fair, I just don't think VS Battles' standards are that metric.
 
I think what doesn't help with the perception of the tier 6 ratings is that in recent years this hobby has become more obsessed with everyone being multiversal or higher dimensionsal, which causes stuff like wiping out the surface of the planet to seem "weak" by comparison to all the higher end metas people toss out for other series.

Me personally, big fan of High 4-C base characters (And honestly just a fan of High 4-C in general, top 5 tiers of all time tbh)
 

What the ****-**** is going on here?

Like, wank, but make it believable wank. Put the characters at the highest rating that's basically bulletproof and you'll do fine, as it turns out it's hard to argue with World of Warcraft being 5-B when you have several feats in the same exact tier, or that WHF Incarnates are High 4-C when there's like a billion tier 4 environmental destruction feats that get UES'd into scaling.
 
Armorchompy said:
For the record, I do sincerely understand why people would be annoyed at the ratings not being what they are, I think at least some of the higher tier feats can be fairly interpreted as viable, and it's just a matter of how much weight you give to anti-feats. So like, by some metric higher ratings than tier 6 are fair, I just don't think VS Battles' standards are that metric.
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Just gonna put in my two cents...

I never really agreed nor disagreed with the downgrade to tier 6 at first; tbf, the Super Mario Bros was lacking in tier 4 and 3 feats at the time, and there weren't really enough instances of the characters consistently fighting at said tiers. Still, I don't think it does justice to bring out a list of anti-feats and say that's the reason why they shouldn't be placed at such a high tier, because that's like saying if they were really that weak, they'd be placed at tier 9. Every character in every form of media is gonna struggle with instances that entirely undermine the things they're capable of; they're not always gonna be shown to do things like destroy planets or move at the speed of light on a consistent basis. Yes, characters like Mario in SM64 can get hurt by falls just like Link can in most 3D Legend of Zelda games, but there are things to take into account when it comes to instances such as that. Most of the time, they can recover from this damage and can take into far worse punishment given the amount of stamina they possess (like Link having a max of 20 hearts in nearly every game), not to mention they have equipment to cancel out this damage like Caleb having the Jump Boots in Blood and Link having the Glide Suit enhanced to two levels by a Great Fairy to be immune to impact damage. Just because characters can get hurt by falling doesn't mean that they can instantly die by falling from great heights.

Regardless, every anti-feat has to have a bit of context before and/or after they take place, and there’s always a workaround or solution to a few of them in fiction.

At least, that's just my opinion...
 
I see that there was certainly a back and forth bit of dialogue here-.

Though, there were good points made throughout that conversation (on both ends) that I can agree with, I feel like overall it was a convo that definitely can contribute more morale towards the verse getting to a good standing.
 
Omnificence said:
Just gonna put in my two cents...

I never really agreed nor disagreed with the downgrade to tier 6 at first; tbf, the Super Mario Bros was lacking in tier 4 and 3 feats at the time, and there weren't really enough instances of the characters consistently fighting at said tiers. Still, I don't think it does justice to bring out a list of anti-feats and say that's the reason why they shouldn't be placed at such a high tier, because that's like saying if they were really that weak, they'd be placed at tier 9. Every character in every form of media is gonna struggle with instances that entirely undermine the things they're capable of; they're not always gonna be shown to do things like destroy planets or move at the speed of light on a consistent basis. Yes, characters like Mario in SM64 can get hurt by falls just like Link can in most 3D Legend of Zelda games, but there are things to take into account when it comes to instances such as that. Most of the time, they can recover from this damage and can take into far worse punishment given the amount of stamina they possess (like Link having a max of 20 hearts in nearly every game), not to mention they have equipment to cancel out this damage like Caleb having the Jump Boots in Blood and Link having the Glide Suit enhanced to two levels by a Great Fairy to be immune to impact damage. Just because characters can get hurt by falling doesn't mean that they can instantly die by falling from great heights.

Regardless, every anti-feat has to have a bit of context before and/or after they take place, and there’s always a workaround or solution to a few of them in fiction.

At least, that's just my opinion...
Click to expand...
What's a bit annoying with Mario is that given it's strange timeline and all, you can't just justify the higher end feats as him becoming stronger for the final boss or something like you'd do for Link or an RPG character.
 
I just want to point out that a lot of the time we have disagreements based on what we believe to be correct. The thing is Mario is very inconsistent which means it's very hard to say anything tiering wise is correct due to how our system works and also the stories are often vague. When our ideas of what is accurate differ we often have problems I have argued in favor of Goombas scaling to Mario, against power star scaling, and that technically creating a galaxy shouldn't be galaxy level. I believe most of these arguments to be sound in spite of counter arguments, because in my eyes I still think my logic makes sense. We are applying a somewhat weirdly defined logic to a series that often doesn't make sense.

I mean the mario wiki seems to have abandoned the idea of canon a long time ago with them taking all official media as equally canon and non canon
 
I think this talk of cosmic interpretations is very funny when the newest Mario game (Brothership) blatantly has an attack that deals with "satellites" bigger than the planet they're on (in which they stop their movements too) being used for energy and we literally know dreams at the very least are MSS sized (still believe in Uni personally but whatever).

That's all quite literally in your face.
 
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Lou_change said:
I just want to point out that a lot of the time we have disagreements based on what we believe to be correct. The thing is Mario is very inconsistent which means it's very hard to say anything tiering wise is correct due to how our system works and also the stories are often vague. When our ideas of what is accurate differ we often have problems I have argued in favor of Goombas scaling to Mario, against power star scaling, and that technically creating a galaxy shouldn't be galaxy level. I believe most of these arguments to be sound in spite of counter arguments, because in my eyes I still think my logic makes sense. We are applying a somewhat weirdly defined logic to a series that often doesn't make sense.

I mean the mario wiki seems to have abandoned the idea of canon a long time ago with them taking all official media as equally canon and non canon
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A proper official timeline would do wonders. That way we could just use keys and different eras or something.
 
TartaChocholate said:
A proper official timeline would do wonders. That way we could just use keys and different eras or something.
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The devious Partners in Time and various Yoshi games pretty much put a halt to making keys for different eras. These characters are barely stronger in modern times then they were as infants.
 
To be fair, Partners in Time is only the second RPG and was a long time ago (that we could reason anyways) and even in that game the Babies DO have inferior stats still.

Nothing is showing that current day Mario and Luigi aren't stronger than their baby selves.
 
Honestly it's probably evidence the growth isn't so massive, they're stronger as adults but still comparable as babies, which I would assume is just mainly their bodies having fully developed now anyways. If they grew beyond that (and they definitely grew in their own games, question is if the franchise actually takes that into account) it wasn't by that much.

Also it's the third RPG, SMRPG is a thing.
 
Dust_Collector said:
The devious Partners in Time and various Yoshi games pretty much put a halt to making keys for different eras. These characters are barely stronger in modern times then they were as infants.
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Or maybe just Accelerated Development for the babies
We humans are FAR stronger than our infant selves
Not sure why the same isn't applicable to Mario, keep in mind the babies are still weaker than their adult selves in the game, just because they are fighting alongside each other doesn't mean they are 1:1 comparable, Adult Bowser literally STOMPED his baby self in yoshi's island DS.
 
Lou_change said:
Maybe they suddenly became weaker as teenagers.
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The 30s caught them up pretty badly with them.
Lou_change said:
Have you seen the zelda fandom's thoughts on the timeline they got?
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Huh, well I've seen a bit of everything regarding that mess. But at least it allows to properly place related games in order and argue for a progression or establish that he was stronger in a previous game because of a power up and not an inconsistency.
 
Starsprite53 said:
I swear if Mario fans put their efforts in making actual good arguments instead of getting furious(I don't totally blame them), the profiles would have looked better.
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I agree, and this is with no shade to anyone here.

Instead of getting up-in-arms and start mud-flinging, maybe scouring the franchise for calculable feats would be a better use of time. The cast would probably be Tier 5 by this point.

TBH I want to stick around and help upgrade the verse a little more but the only effort is going into hax additions/page revisions. Which, while extremely beneficial, isn't gonna help with their tier.
 
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