Summer Time Rendering: Shadow's physiology and some additions

[Wikisource]

A. Physiology page

This is shadow's physiology page made by @Fallen_Angelicx.

Fallen Angelicx/sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

B. Time theory in SR

And this a blog made by me. This blog will explain time theory in SR and adds something for cosmology page and some abilities according these conclusion.

Time Theory in SR verse

vsbattles.fandom.com

According this, timeline is SR equal to possibility. Shinpei and Haine will have Greater Causality Manipulation, Probably Manipulation (4D).

In cosmology page, each loop is a new timeline, so each timeline has changes due to cause and effect factors, corresponding to possibilities because each event carries with it the possibility that subsequent events may happen.

Everyone in SR should have Acausality type 3.

Same as Shinpei Ajiro, killing people in SR in the present will not kill they because they will be copied and pasted into another timeline by Shinpei. Essentially a technically infinite amounted versions of themselves exist.

Ushio should have Greater Causality Manipulation (4D) because she is who created causality loop.

After erasing Hiruko from the past, Ushio time traveled to the past. Here, she was the one who said what Shinpei heard, the one who sent the message to Hizuru, the one who gave Haine's eyes to Shinpei (what Shinpei saw in chapter 1). This proves that events in SR do not just happen once but happen many times, all creating an endless loop.

Ushio gives the eye to Shinpei => Goes through the events in SR => Eliminates Hiruko 300 years ago => Ushio returns to the past and gives the eye to Shinpei... =>And a new loop begins.

One thing to note is that after each death, Shinpei will move to a new timeline, in other words all the events in SR result in a timeline where shadows do not exist. Or create a new timeline. Like the question "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Events in SR have no beginning or end. All of the above creates a never-ending loop that results in a new timeline. Therefore, on a theoretical basis, there will be an infinite number of new timelines created.

She also have Immortality type 8 linked with Time/Causality/Possibility.

This means Ushio will always appear in the new timeline, where Shinpei printed it. Her existence is linked to cause and effect, time and possibility.

The onwer of Haine's right eye will have BDE2.

The onwer of Haine's right eye is transcends space, time and causality.

	Part A	Part B
Agree	@Qawsedf234 @DarkDragonMedeus	@Qawsedf234 (Except BDE2 & Acausal type 3) @DarkDragonMedeus (Same as Qawsedf234)
Disagree
Neutral

Let me cook

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Let me cook

OH YOU COOKED ALR 🗣🗣🗣

 

[Wikisource]

Bump

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump #2

 

[Wikisource]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Respond back to me on like, Friday or something since this is a dense proposal.

But just glancing it looks well sourced.

 

[Wikisource]

Bump

 

[Wikisource]

Respond back to me on like, Friday or something since this is a dense proposal.

But just glancing it looks well sourced.

Can you answer rn? Now is Friday, at least in my country.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

So for point A

• Since it will come up in VS Threads, I would like for EE to be better explained. Because right now the implication is just "Flash light" -> "Erase you from existence". Which I'm not sure how that lines up with other stuff like them fighting people in prolonged periods of combat.
• If time is "Just" stopped, it might be better to list it as resistance to Time Slow/Time Stop rather than Time manipulation in general
• Is the shadows not dying in Tokyo related to their nature or just their resistance? Because the wording in the profile implies the shadows are immune because of their relationship with Tokyo rather than just being immune to that effect

For point B

• For the cosmology blog I think its good. The last section with Haine I see an issue with because it looks like the verse is treating the 4th Dimension as its temporal dimension. Meaning that its not 4D+1 but just 4D. Since a 4D space is already an uncountable infinity above a 3D space it can replicate the infinite possibilities requirement of the alternate worlds.
• With the above in mind, I don't see why Haine would be Low 1-C rather than just 2-A. So she would need to be downgraded

Then for the powers

According this, timeline is SR equal to possibility. Shinpei and Haine will have Greater Causality Manipulation, Probably Manipulation (4D).

I'm fine with this

Everyone in SR should have Acausality type 3.

So as a note the wording here is weird

• Same as Shinpei Ajiro, killing people in SR in the present will not kill they because they will be copied and pasted into another timeline by Shinpei. Essentially a technically infinite amounted versions of themselves exist.

Like the justification is hard to follow. But the core reasoning of imprinting on an alternate version of themselves would be an alright Acasual 3 justification.

Ushio should have Greater Causality Manipulation (4D) because she is who created causality loop.

Alright

She also have Immortality type 8 linked with Time/Causality/Possibility.

As long as her linkage is properly explained this would be fine.

The onwer of Haine's right eye will have BDE2.

BDE2 require proof of conceptual superior. Just being above something wouldn't give you BDE Type 2 since they could still possess spatial-temporal features.

 

[Wikisource]

Since it will come up in VS Threads, I would like for EE to be better explained. Because right now the implication is just "Flash light" -> "Erase you from existence". Which I'm not sure how that lines up with other stuff like them fighting people in prolonged periods of combat.

Yes, the shadows must "scan" to absorb data and information, then create copies and finally delete them. They rarely show them in combat so maybe it can be non-combat.

If time is "Just" stopped, it might be better to list it as resistance to Time Slow/Time Stop rather than Time manipulation in general

Before, time in Tokoyo was declared non-existent but then it was declared doesn't flow.

Is the shadows not dying in Tokyo related to their nature or just their resistance? Because the wording in the profile implies the shadows are immune because of their relationship with Tokyo rather than just being immune to that effect

They cannot die when they were in Tokoyo, this was described as being a place where only shadows could exist. Normally shadows can die when attacked by a 2D body on the ground. But this doesn't work in Tokoyo so it would be weird if it was just a resistance feat.

• The last section with Haine I see an issue with because it looks like the verse is treating the 4th Dimension as its temporal dimension. Meaning that its not 4D+1 but just 4D. Since a 4D space is already an uncountable infinity above a 3D space it can replicate the infinite possibilities requirement of the alternate worlds.
• With the above in mind, I don't see why Haine would be Low 1-C rather than just 2-A. So she would need to be downgraded

No, I have presented evidence that the timeline they refer to is the world. It would be strange if the world was just one dimension of time. At the same time, they also claim that Haine's right eye can control space and time and see the timeline like a 3D being throwing, flipping, burning a manga book representing the 2D world. Simply put, they view the 4D world (or timeline in other words) as 2D.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yes, the shadows must "scan" to absorb data and information, then create copies and finally delete them. They rarely show them in combat so maybe it can be non-combat.

If its not shown as being useable in a fight, non-combat is probably a better option.

Before, time in Tokoyo was declared non-existent but then it was declared doesn't flow.

?

If time doesn't flow then its like I said, just resistance to Time Stop than time manipulation in general.

They cannot die when they were in Tokoyo, this was described as being a place where only shadows could exist. Normally shadows can die when attacked by a 2D body on the ground. But this doesn't work in Tokoyo so it would be weird if it was just a resistance feat.

I guess resistance to those stuff is fine then, since its "Only Shadows can live here".

No, I have presented evidence that the timeline they refer to is the world. It would be strange if the world was just one dimension of time.

A 4th Dimensional Axis can encompass an uncountable infinite number of 3-A spaces.

Also even your proposal features one temporal dimension.

At the same time, they also claim that Haine's right eye can control space and time and see the timeline like a 3D being throwing, flipping, burning a manga book representing the 2D world. Simply put, they view the 4D world (or timeline in other words) as 2D.

That's just Tier 2 for your description, especially when the one linked scan for Haine is them calling Tokoyo 4th Dimensional

 

[Wikisource]

Also even your proposal features one temporal dimension.

In this scan, Shinpei said that his ability is observe parallel worlds, not time. In another scan, Shide said that Shinpei's ability is observe timelines. So timeline or worlds just two ways to call 4D universe.

That's just Tier 2 for your description,

Why? I don't understand how that's just tier 2 when they view 4D same as 2D.

especially when the one linked scan for Haine is them calling Tokoyo 4th Dimensional

4th dimension is not said by Haine. Is a question asked by Shinpei. Haine never confirmed that question either. I have also argued with @Theglassman12 about this. You can see more here to know more.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The 4th dimension was shinpei's interpretation of "Higher Dimension from where you come from". It isn't stated by the knowledgeable. Funny enough, The mortal world is already 4D lol. Existence Erasure kinda would be Combat applicable in the sense that;

1. Once a shadow scans their victim later they're killed. Shadow's would then erase them.
2. It would immediately work on someone with Immortality type 7 (they're already dead).
3. Once they've scanned the data of a non living thing, they can erase it after and this is actively shown in the series unlike number 1

But im guessing the problem is, no shadow actively uses these tactics in combat (not that they've come across such things), so in a versus thread it could pose a very good capability.

 

[Qawsedf234]

In this scan, Shinpei said that his ability is observe parallel worlds, not time.

The second scan literally shows a branching timeline. There's only one temporal dimension, not two.

Why? I don't understand how that's just tier 2 when they view 4D same as 2D.

You can be 5D and still be rated as 2-A. The line of reasoning is also "Like a 3D is above a 2D book, a 4D being is above a 3D object". Which would still just be tier 2.

You can see more here to know more.

I'm seeing this as Time being a 4th Spatial Axis, rather than an independent concept of progression.

But im guessing the problem is, no shadow actively uses these tactics in combat (not that they've come across such things), so in a versus thread it could pose a very good capability.

I mean that's the point. If they never demonstrate the ability to do this in a combat situation, then the power wouldn't be combat applicable. Which is why I wanted a note to be added.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Well on second thought. It is, we see mio try to and later killed totsumura (a police officer) and erase his body right after on 4-5 chapter. It's a process on how they feed according to ryuunosuke, they need to scan something and after they reciveve the data they're able to erase said thing. So it is indeed combat applicable under normal circumstances and against those with Immortality type 7, it would work even better as all the shadow needs to do is scan it's opponent, they don't need to kill it as it's already dead. And as I've stated, they use this EE ability usually on non living things as it takes far less data to scan meaning less time to scan and with a simple touch it's gone.

 

[Wikisource]

The second scan literally shows a branching timeline. There's only one temporal dimension, not two.

No, it's explain how Shinpei's ability works. He copies and pastes timeline when he dead.

You can be 5D and still be rated as 2-A

Seriously, this is the first time i heard about it.

The line of reasoning is also "Like a 3D is above a 2D book, a 4D being is above a 3D object". Which would still just be tier 2.

So you mean Haine would still be tier 2 even if she was 5D?

I'm seeing this as Time being a 4th Spatial Axis, rather than an independent concept of progression.

Wdym?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

So you mean Haine would still be tier 2 even if she was 5D?

Idk how this would work. Under normal circumstances she'd be higher than baseline 2-A.... But 5D with what? Mxyp has something that makes him 5D (Lower Dimensional worlds), Haine doesn't specifically have such a thing.

 

[Wikisource]

Idk how this would work. Under normal circumstances she'd be higher than baseline 2-A.... But 5D with what? Mxyp has something that makes him 5D (Lower Dimensional worlds), Haine doesn't specifically have such a thing.

We have something like

• Tokoyo which is a higher dimension, above the world/timestream.
• The owner of Haine's right eye can ascend to Tokoyo and control space and time and view them as a 2D manga.
• This power is also claimed to transcend time.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The owner of Haine's right eye can ascend to Tokoyo and control space and time and view them as a 2D manga.

Remember that Tokoyo is created/manifested by Haine's memories (and we know memories = power for shadows) and Haine's death would destroy tokoyo and also her eyes, infact the power in the eyes would disappear and become normal eyes (everything shadow related gets erased upon Her death meaning they're all connected). I addressed this in the last thread we had on Low 1-C. Ima recreate Haine's profile with info cuz im tired of the back and forth with Low 1-C/2-A Haine/Cosmology so that if anyone wants reasons on why, they can go to profile. It's currently outdated.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Seriously, this is the first time i heard about it.

Just being above a 4D space isn't enough for Low 1-C. You require infinite or universal levels of 5D AP to get that rating. Even being infinitely above a 4D wouldn't give you Low 1-C.

Wdym?

Time isn't 4D+1 it's just 4D.

So you mean Haine would still be tier 2 even if she was 5D?

Yeah

No, it's explain how Shinpei's ability works. He copies and pastes timeline when he dead.

You're still dealing with version A, not version B. There's only one temporal dimension from what I see.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Just being above a 4D space isn't enough for Low 1-C. You require infinite or universal levels of 5D AP to get that rating. Even being infinitely above a 4D wouldn't give you Low 1-C.

What about seeing 4D as 2D. Meaning you view it as a flat surface

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Yeah

How tho? Mxp is 5D in Lower D worlds. What would make Haine 5D seperated from her 4D power.

 

[Wikisource]

Just being above a 4D space isn't enough for Low 1-C. You require infinite or universal levels of 5D AP to get that rating. Even being infinitely above a 4D wouldn't give you Low 1-C.

But that is not R/F? How can she view 4D same as 2D doesn't qualified for this?

Time isn't 4D+1 it's just 4D

I know

You're still dealing with version A, not version B. There's only one temporal dimension from what I see.

I see it, but what I want to say here is R/F. Not something like you think.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What about seeing 4D as 2D. Meaning you view it as a flat surface

All I see is that she sees 3D as 2D, which isn't a Low 1-C transcendence feat.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

All I see is that she sees 3D as 2D, which isn't a Low 1-C transcendence feat.

It's symbolic to the already 2-A cosmology. But since this is still tier 2... Is this where we get "higher into 2-A levels" because this can't just be baseline.
The Cosmology composes of infinite timelines and possibilities via loop > Haines eye views these timelines from a higher dimension to the point it sees these timelines as 2D on a 3D level . It also erases and creates infinite timelines and possibilities for the user and gives the user power to overcome time and control time and space > Tokoyo is a realm above the mortal world (Which is already 2-A) where the power of the eyes mean nothing in there and it only works in the mortal world > Haine who's self is connected to everything shadow related, even her eyes as they would lose power if she dies and tokoyo which would be erased if Haine dies + The realm is sustainable by Haines memories and we know memories empower shadows. The connection between all these imply that it's far above the baseline of 2-A. What do you propose for this?

 

[Qawsedf234]

The connection between all these imply that it's far above the baseline of 2-A. What do you propose for this?

Above baseline 2A

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Above baseline 2A

2-3 layers above 2-A Summer Time Rendering LESS GOO. I get why it can't be Low 1-C tho, we need more than "We see this as 2D" Especially with new tier 1 updates, it's gonna be hard to get Low 1-C. We would need statements of timelines encompassing another and more cosmology look-ins to get tier 1.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Especially with new tier 1 updates, it's gonna be hard to get Low 1-C.

Its hard to get it with basic transcendence statements.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

transcendence statements.

Could you please ping admins to review this? Ive dm'd almost every admin so far

 

[Wikisource]

Above baseline 2A

I will wait for other staff's opinion. Can you ping them?

Btw, I still hold the view this is R/F, so can you tell me some reason that prove it does not meet the standards.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump

 

[Worthless]

I honestly believe that viewing the 4D as 2D is more than enough to prove superiority in dimensionality over it and thus over 5D. But hey, whatever.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Its hard to get it with basic transcendence statements.

I honestly believe that viewing the 4D as 2D is more than enough to prove superiority in dimensionality over it and thus over 5D. But hey, whatever.

Just as Qawsed said. With new standards, it's hard to get Low 1-C

 

[Wikisource]

I still wait for a reason

 

[Worthless]

Just as Qawsed said. With new standards, it's hard to get Low 1-C

The transcendent statement is only part of the reason, it, along with the analogy about 3D being able to pick up and burn 2D, contributes to the low 1-C argument.

 

[Qawsedf234]

this is R/F,

R>F would make her 1-A and that's contradicted. So it's not useable as a upscaling method.

honestly believe that viewing the 4D as 2D is more than enough to prove superiority in dimensionality

The only statement I see is that she views 3D like how 3D views 2D, which is a Tier 2 feat and not a Tier 1 feat.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The only statement I see is that she views 3D like how 3D views 2D, which is a Tier 2 feat and not a Tier 1 feat.

At least not anymore right? The last thread on Low 1-C that was made it clear the verse was Low 1-C, by multiple mods too. Im guessing since new standard's you need a whole paragraph cosmology explanation for tier 1

 

[Qawsedf234]

At least not anymore right? The last thread on Low 1-C that was made it clear the verse was Low 1-C, by multiple mods too. Im guessing since new standard's you need a whole paragraph cosmology explanation for tier 1

You can't use R>F as a Low 1-C justification going by how Ultima said the Low 1-A stuff for Slay the Princess wasn't valid for being contradicted in the story. It's either a 1-A thing or nothing.