Stuff about Goombas

[Buttersamuri]

We don't usually divide power like that to backwards scale; and Bowser was in a more casual state at the time. Also, the plot of Mario RPGs pretty much ignores the level up system; especially considering the cast somehow would get much weaker when going from one game to the sequel. I still think it's pretty much the same scenario as Link getting kicked out by Hylian Soldiers in Ocarina or Crono being arrested Guardian soldiers.

The difference is. This is and entire game based on just the bowsers minions. And this game alone isn't the only proof.

It has been said that Goombas have been shown not even to be bowsers weakest minions.

Toads are scared of Goombas and it's implied they can fight them (and several games shows toads being on par with early mario)

And this game backs up them fighting win the seven Koopa kids.

It isn't like it's just one feat and one characters

It's several characters including Toads, Koopa kids, and early versions of the cast. And several bowser minions doing it too. Fodder villains typically can't scale yes. Like the Hylian Soldiers. But those are one time occerances and one time situations. But in this case. It seems a consistent enough degree. More than one game backs it up. Goombas are implied to be able to fight and possibly beat road, And bowsers minion quest completely backing up that the minions are typically on the same scale.Some are stronger. But they still can injure each other. They aren't obviously on par with Mario as being the high tier. But their scalings to the Koopa kids, other higher tier bowser minions. And it even makes sense if we scaled cause it would also explain why they can actually hurt early Mario and Moved bowser. Though those aren't my main points. It would help explain those and as well give it a ton more consistency to what seems to already be consistent enough.

All Together. Other games back up Goombas can fight and likely beat Toads

This game shows minions including Goombas scaling to the Koopa kids and being essential to the plot.

As well several other bowser minions also getting this scaling as doing it themselves. It seems fair to give them the upgrade. That seems like way too much to write off.

 

[Mephistus]

Like, the statue pushing is a wall-building level feat or something by energy calculations so that'd be something for them rather than block / rock breaking feats for the fodder XD

Since? They are cancelling out him moving it fully back and it actually gives a game over so its kinda hard to say its not casual when after he moves it back to the orignal position and they are still fighting back. PIS wise thats the best you could argue powerscaling, I'm more of the mind that they are more than tens of times lesser going the sheer number of times presentation wise going by guys like a Mega Goomba being a scaled up power wise via proportional size to a normal goomba and still be fodder to Luigi tier guys. Goombas on their own should be really like bajillions of times weaker going by joules they can output.

The level system deal isn't what I even brought up tho. Its a plot related power-up when Bowser overpowers someone who formerly matched aka Midbus and Blizzard Midbus situation with him being something of an actual peer before his power-up. Base Bowser got stronger from the start of the game for some reason since Base Bowser utterly crushes Dark Bowser who, according to Fawful, was something whos power surpassed the Castle Robot that formerly stomped base Bowser. Mega Bowser was matching the Castle Robot so yeah.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Bump

 

[Buttersamuri]

Bump

 

[Buttersamuri]

Bump

 

[Buttersamuri]

Bipity Bumpity

 

[Buttersamuri]

Bump

 

[The_Smashor]

Considerering there are some Goombas that can even challange the Koopalings (Superstar Saga and Bowser's Minions) I think this is consistant enough.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Just need to get a Admin or Discussion Admin to take a look and agree

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Dino, myself, and Azathoth already disagreed with this, and there was yet another thread that proposed the idea but that was also shot down for similar reasons. We agreed to put Goombas taking out the bosses to be in the same boat as Crono getting arrested by fodder foot soldiers, or Sonic getting arrested by the police.

 

[Buttersamuri]

"Crono getting arrested by fodder foot soldiers, or Sonic getting arrested by the police."

Being a game mechanic and just one small thing in the game


Goombas canonically being threats and having beaten Toads, can canonically and do canonically fight the koopa kids. And an entire Game based in the fact of them fighting with each other

That's a very big difference than one small game mechanic. Not only does the sense that Goombas scale cross multiple games, but it literally had a game dedicated to showing that they scale. It is unfair to shove that all aside. As it can't be game mechanic at that point. It's literally Plot essential, and generally consistent across the series with both statement and feats thanks to the game.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Those aren't just game mechanics, those are also plot points for various video games. But said moments are literally PIS and it's still agreed that only special Goombas like Goombario, Goombella, Goomboss, Captain Goomba, ect shall scale from Mario and the cast. And not all Toads are Tier 4, only very few of them are.

 

[Buttersamuri]

That's not said on the page. Toads all seem to scale to each other much like the yoshis. Who can all pull of the same feats.

Plus. There hasn't been anything brought up that actually disproves scaling. As we said before. Of course Mario overpowers them cause he is a high tier. But that doesn't change the fact the lower tiers Goombas have faced has only met reasons for scaling. Goombas Can in fact fight and even beat Koopa kids. As do the other minions able to pull off the same feats.

The only feat you actually brought up where a lower tier did beat the Bunch of Goombas was a mean through hacks. Not actual power. So that reason can't be valid to disprove them scaling. And without that, there hasn't been a single reason to show the Goombas can't scale,

They canonically are above Toads who scale to each other muc like all the yoshis scale to each other by being able to pull off the same feats

They canonically and crucial plot point fought and beat the Koopa kids multiple times

They also can do this in another game.

And other minions are able to fight with each other and show to scale as well like to the Koopa kids.

And there isn't any suggestions where a mid tier fodderizes Goombas that actually involved power and not just Hacks.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Only the playable Toads who's names are simply Toad are Mario's level. None of the civilian Toads are on par with Mario. And Yoshi's are a different story; there are plenty of Yoshi's who are on par with Mario yes, but there also exist civilian Yoshi's who aren't on Mario's level. Our profile for Toad and Yoshi are based on the specific character ones who are often playable, our Goomba profiles are based on fodder Goombas.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Assuming that is true. Which is still iffy considering nothing actually dismisses the fact they would and several different Toads have shown to scale. Not just one. And the only people that overpower them is bowser who is obviously superior. Especially with his magic.

Still doesn't dismiss the fact the fodder Goombas still show direct scaling to Koopa kids in more than one game and statements also imply they scale With no other real feats to dismiss their scaling to mid tiers. The only one that can fodderizes a bunch of them is Mario, Bowser, or Kamek when he uses Magic specifically. And that's only with Magic hacks. And they still can damage Kamek.

What actually feat dismisses it that isn't Mario and bowser can fodderizes them? Because the higher tiers can sure. But the middle tiers like Koopa kids haven't ever shown to fodderizes Goombas.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The thing is, Mario and Sonic are also inconsistent like Marvel and DC Comics. Mid Tiers like the Koopa Kids struggling to fight Goombas is also similar to Superman struggling to fight Batman. And technically, a lot of Mid Tiers actually have their own Tier 4 feats. Some of the various bosses in various 3D Mario games have their own pocket reality feats, as well as pocket realities within Pocket Realities in Mario 64's case. It's not just Yoshi creating Star Constellations or base Bowser surviving Supernovas, those are some of the reasons Koopa Kids are High 4-C.

But still, there's also plenty of showings of characters being much less than Tier 4 and a lot of showings of being greater than Tier 4. So Mario cast having Tier 4 base forms is justified given consistent feats. But Fodder enemies and civilians being Tier 4 is just iffy. Especially if they're commonly defeated by Various Tier 9 or Tier 8 threats. But still, only very few Toads or Goombas are actually Tier 4 and most of them are safest at Tier 9 at least until some of their own feats higher than that get proper calcs.

 

[Buttersamuri]

"Mid Tiers like the Koopa Kids struggling to fight Goombas is also similar to Superman struggling to fight Batman."

Nothing proves that because the only person to Fodder Goombas are high tiers. Never had a mid tier done so. So it can't be said a valid reason to say scaling doesn't work


"And technically, a lot of Mid Tiers actually have their own Tier 4 feats. Some of the various bosses in various 3D Mario games have their own pocket reality feats, as well as pocket realities within Pocket Realities in Mario 64's case. It's not just Yoshi creating Star Constellations or base Bowser surviving Supernovas, those are some of the reasons Koopa Kids are High 4-C."

Nothing about gay changes the fact they are still mid tiers in the verse while the others are high tiers. Whatever level the mid tiers are at doesn't matter. Because Goombas haven't been fodderizes or shown not to scale to mid tiers. The fact they had their own High 4-C feats and the Goombas can fight hen should justify scaling more than it doesn't. Because we don't see Goombas getting fodderizes by this tier. Only a High tier like Mario or Luigi does so.


"But still, there's also plenty of showings of characters being much less than Tier 4 and a lot of showings of being greater than Tier 4. So Mario cast having Tier 4 base forms is justified given consistent feats. But Fodder enemies and civilians being Tier 4 is just iffy. Especially if they're commonly defeated by Various Tier 9 or Tier 8 threats"

Yes. So does 90 percent of fiction. Having lower feats doesn't make you lower automatically. It's what is their general beat feats that don't have reason to be considered outlier. Plus, supporting evidence even more that Goombas can minorly injure Mario. Only minorly cause they are still weaker. As being a mid tier. But this, plus defeating the Koopa Kids on several occasions, plus statements which back up scaling, plus several games that back up the scaling, plus a Game dedicated to showing the minions scale to each other. Thats away too much to ignore and dismiss.


"But still, only very few Toads or Goombas are actually Tier 4 and most of them are safest at Tier 9 at least until some of their own feats higher than that get proper calcs."

Nothing proves that and it would be wrong to assume otherwise without actual feats that put them below the mid tiers. Less there be actual feats, then it's way to consistent across multiple games with multiple characters with statements backing it up.


And I still ask you.

What feat puts them below Mid tier? Cause the only feats shown are Definitely mid tier. And The only feat that was against it wasn't even right. So can you actually bring up a feat that disproves their scaling?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

First of all, the "Koopa Kids" are called "Koopalings". We actually have characters called Koopa Kids in the MP series but are completely different characters. Please remember this. Second and basically repeating my first comment, I still refuse to scale the Goombas or any other basic enemy to majority of the Mario cast beyond game mechanics. As DarkDragon pointed out, established and notable characters of the same species can be exceptions such as Goombella. Otherwise, simply hurting a character isn't enough when it's clearly establish they are way below the cast to be even to be considered such. PIS moments and game mechanics doesn't change that. I'm closing the thread since almost no one seems to be on board.