Stranger Things Season 5 Discussion

[Dinobot1996]

I’m not entirely sure they’d scale to Holly’s durability since that was in the mental plane, and i’m unsure if her mental self is comparable to her irl form physically, there was no mention of it too. For all we know, they can take damage and even pass out temporarily but that’s about it.

As for the LS thing, maybe? that’d be a nice upgrade. I narrowly missed the scene it happened, could you try linking it?
Do we have anyone physically scaling to Demorgorgons?

Well, if the mental plane feats don't count, that would narrowly avoid elementary schoolers getting tier 9 AP.

Found a video of the Demogorgon feat here. Also, a later shot of the aftermath:

Considering even a season 1 Eleven's telekinesis could restrain a Demogorgon, I assume anything in the verse currently scaling to Class 10 would scale.

 

[FentyBeauty]

Spoiler

When they both went underground and saw little Henry, i think that’s when Henry took the serum that made him what he is. If you think of it, henry didn’t result to his powers at that moment and resulted to using a stone to kill that scientist (which was pretty wild lmao, like why will you shoot a kid that’s just trying to help?).

i seen a tiktok abt like how in the first shadow play it showed us that he went to dimension x from when he was exploring the caves when he was a kid and he returned different

Spoiler

I see some people complaining about the whole ass speech Max gave Holly before returning, personally, i think that was really necessary because despite Holly brave moments, she’s still a little girl at the end of the day. Not to add she was a tad bit unstable and Max needed to make her feel better plus tell her where she needed to wait for them.

omg i was screaming for max to run so many times i think ppl were mad bc like u saw the portal thing for the second time n u couldnt make it bc u were taking too long to run n then u do the same thing when u see the portal thing come back again

but i definitely agree with u tho! if max didn’t give that speech, holly wouldn’t have made it out there n she wouldn’t get the chance to see whats axtually going on out there n outside of henrys head. plus she’s rlly going thru it so she needed that

Spoiler

As for Max’s return, yeah, just yeah, that was an extremely emotionally heightened scene, it’s factually impossible not to feel a thing when Lucas saw Max open her eyes for the first time in 2 years. Good thing she isn’t blind bc i thought she would be when she returns (y’know the white pupil and all). Erica reaction to Max return is funny as hell.

praying rn that nothing happens to her again!! i also rlly loved it when she said that she didn’t need the kate bush song n that it was just lucas who she needed to be there for her like it was literally so heartwarming too <33 other than that, i rlly hated it when they ended that previous ep on a cliffhanger n we literally had to watxh the next ep to see if max actually made it

Spoiler

We finally for that “Run scene” lol, I thought something bad went wrong then, but that’s a relief. On my soul nobody’s dying this season. I’m also glad the discrepancies between Steve and Dustin got cleared out, they used to be such great best friends and i think at the end of the day, Dustin was just scared of losing Steve like he lost Eddie. I don’t know what they mean by “If you die, I die” because NO ONE is dying please. The Nancy-Jonathan situation got cleared aswell.

pls i couldnt tell if the nancy n jonathan scene when they were on the table was supposed to be a break up scene or them just not being ready to be engaged

Spoiler

Kali’s return got me excited for the first half, but i think she’s pessimistic in a way, but at the same time realistic. Her view on things is understandable because witnessing your entire circle of friends being killed and then becoming a blood bag for an experiment can quite change one view on life. There are other options to this, you don’t submit to the system or kill yourself to escape the system. There’s always a better option, and someone has to tell her that.

agreed! she has been running away for most of her life w her friends so i understand like her just wanting to stopping that cycle

i kind of doubt that kali n el would actually go with their sacrifice plan if they put more attention into the fact that henry still has the kids hostage n they probably could get powers from him so that would mean kali n el would have to let them die too, which i don’t think they would do that

so yeah there has to be another way!

 

[Kaydee1648]

i rlly hated it when they ended that previous ep on a cliffhanger n we literally had to watxh the next ep to see if max actually made it

Imagine if it was on a weekly schedule
I’m not gonna wait a while ass week thinking about what happened to max.

pls i couldnt tell if the nancy n jonathan scene when they were on the table was supposed to be a break up scene or them just not being ready to be engaged

right!?
i thought i was the only one, even when he pulled the ring i was still confused ash bc wym “do you accept my unproposal”, and nancy saying yes to that confused me further lol.

i kind of doubt that kali n el would actually go with their sacrifice plan if they put more attention into the fact that henry still has the kids hostage n they probably could get powers from him so that would mean kali n el would have to let them die too, which i don’t think they would do that

hmm. the kids don’t inherently have powers me thinks. Will says that he’s able to tap in to the hive mind and take control of it (more like using Vecna powers through the vessel) so i don’t think the kids (who are somewhat in a similar situation with will) have powers, and can only chanel said ability through the hive mind. Vecna needing them might be deduced fo a “more nodes higher efficiency” situation.
Can they be used for an experiment? maybe but it’ll be redundant if Vecna is dead since there’s nothing to tap in to anymore.

Well, if the mental plane feats don't count, that would narrowly avoid elementary schoolers getting tier 9 AP.

I think that’s a good thing lol

Considering even a season 1 Eleven's telekinesis could restrain a Demogorgon, I assume anything in the verse currently scaling to Class 10 would scale.

If it yields any result exponentially higher than class 10, won’t that be inconsistent with how El was struggling to lift a truck and open a metal plate this season? The Mind Flayer is obviously above the demorgorgon so El being above the demorgorgon is solidified. I can ask a calc member to help me with it, it’s doesn’t look too hard from what i can see.

 

[Dinobot1996]

If it yields any result exponentially higher than class 10, won’t that be inconsistent with how El was struggling to lift a truck and open a metal plate this season? The Mind Flayer is obviously above the demorgorgon so El being above the demorgorgon is solidified. I can ask a calc member to help me with it, it’s doesn’t look too hard from what i can see.

A lot of Eleven's feats haven't been the most impressive this season compared to some of the stuff she's done in previous seasons, so I assume it's either inconsistent writing or Eleven just not being amped by her emotions when she struggled with those feats.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

If it yields any result exponentially higher than class 10, won’t that be inconsistent with how El was struggling to lift a truck and open a metal plate this season? The Mind Flayer is obviously above the demorgorgon so El being above the demorgorgon is solidified. I can ask a calc member to help me with it, it’s doesn’t look too hard from what i can see.

Kali stated that Hopper actively being overprotective of her was weakening her. Idk if we should take that litteraly, but if that's the case then El might be nerfed this season

I'd also like to point out that there's a High 8-C calc for the verse that hasn't been accepted yet, and I'd really like to get this accepted before the CRT for this season

 

[FentyBeauty]

@Kaydee1648 how do u post pics on this site

i wanna show u something & its rlly interestring trust!!!

 

[Kaydee1648]

@Kaydee1648 how do u post pics on this site

i wanna show u something & its rlly interestring trust!!!

I usually upload here, then i copy the ‘direct link’ and then paste it in the image box

 

[FentyBeauty]

I usually upload here, then i copy the ‘direct link’ and then paste it in the image box

srry it took me so long to respond but anyways this is what i wanted to show u! like idk if el’s gonna have a happy ending or not but her staying in the abyss n making it pretty would be so good

 

[FentyBeauty]

the finale is gonna be in 4 hours ish too so we’re gonna see anyways

 

[Kaydee1648]

srry it took me so long to respond but anyways this is what i wanted to show u! like idk if el’s gonna have a happy ending or not but her staying in the abyss n making it pretty would be so good

The abyss was kinda chaotic before vecna came in, idk i won’t like this ending.

 

[Kaydee1648]

So did El really survive or is Mike just coping

Edit: Seems we got further clarification on the abyss being a planet

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

So did El really survive or is Mike just coping

Edit: Seems we got further clarification on the abyss being a planet

I definetly think he's coping, unless Kali survived a gunshot to the heart & somehow didn't bleed out for like 20 minutes.

Kali has also been shown to not have that level of range (in episode 5 her illusions end up dissapearing because they get too far away from the lab), and this would've taken a lot of coordination and planning. Hopper was also standing right there, so they would've needed to somehow plan all of this out without Hopper realizing anything.

Although I wish she survived, I think this is just Mike not accepting that she's gone, much like how he did in Season 2

 

[Dinobot1996]

Just got back from the theater.

So is the Mind Flayer going to have to get a third key now? It's body this episode clearly isn't a smoke form. Eleven hurts it by hitting it with a giant rock, and later rips a hole in its chest. The rest of the party are only able to inflict "chip damage" to it with their weaponry.

Vecna states that Eleven has gotten stronger, but so has he (though I'm pretty sure he already mentioned his power increase to Will a couple episodes ago)

Will outright rips Vecna's arm off.

Potentially supporting the idea that using mindscape feats may not be reliable for scaling, Derek is able to break Vecna's grip on Holly, and Holly harms Vecna with a fire poker in the mindscape.

 

[Kaydee1648]

So is the Mind Flayer going to have to get a third key now? It's body this episode clearly isn't a smoke form. Eleven hurts it by hitting it with a giant rock, and later rips a hole in its chest. The rest of the party are only able to inflict "chip damage" to it with their weaponry.

I feel its main body KE will yield results higher than 8-C now. Also it’s kinda weird that Nancy could briefly throw it off balance when normal Demorgorgons easily shrug off bullets like they’re spitballs.
I’ve got an idea, what if, now i mean a big what if, we try to scale vecna to 1/13 of the energy needed to move the abyss? We know Vecna was channeling his powers through the kids, just like how multiple iron cores strengthens magnetic performance in an inductor. It’s flimsy to scale, so i’ll only suggest it applying to his season 5 key maybe as a possibly? idk. But he’s definitely getting [what energy is needed to move the abyss] as an attack, but with preparation.

Potentially supporting the idea that using mindscape feats may not be reliable for scaling, Derek is able to break Vecna's grip on Holly, and Holly harms Vecna with a fire poker in the mindscape.

This i agree with. Also considering Holly could deeply scar vecna and El briefly overpowering him in the mental scape but would have died in the real world were it not for Nancy and the boys throwing the mind flayer off balance.

 

[Dinobot1996]

If the Abyss is a planet, even 1/13 of moving it (if we assume it's Earth-sized) might have the potential to get tier 5 results.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Thoughts on S5/Finale:

Spoiler

Saw the Finale in theaters with my girlfriend, overall I have very mixed feelings and opinions on everything. As common and generally accepted it is to hate on the writing of S5, I felt like with how everything was going with Vol. 2 the finale was inevitably going to be rushed. The final battle against Vecna felt very easy (especially with the Mind Flayers presence), and I think it highlighted how low stakes the show was in terms of character deaths when it was heavily advertised as “the darkest season.” And of course there’s SO many loose ends and things that could take up entire paragraphs. Characters that never got explored/explained the endings of, things never explained, etc. As well as the direction everything decided to go

Spoiler

However, it was great to see everyone get a happy ending (mostly). In terms of concluding what I thought about the main characters of the shows, everything made sense with where there characters were headed. Especially liked Dustin and Steve’s conclusions for sure. As for the whole story Mike has for El, I originally viewed it as a way for Mike to cope (and ultimately it is no matter what way you cut it) however with the whole weaponized sound not affecting Eleven for her to be capable of talking to Mike within their minds does make me question whether her fate. (Unless it’s legit just Kali screwing around with Mike in this scenario) And honestly, I like the ambiguity of it and it being up to the faith/belief in all of them to believe in Mike’s story to cope. The best way to think of Finale, in the words of one of my friends, is “A very inadequate finale, with a decently adequate ending”

Scaling Things:

Spoiler

In terms of scaling, yeah Vecna and the Mind Flayer I feel need new keys. It’s just a matter of how we do them. The Vecna/Kids feat being an ability makes sense as well, though it also depends how big we determine the Abyss is. El could possibly have a new key as well since “She’s gotten stronger.” A couple characters should also get some equipment added to their profiles. Most prominently Murray’s bomb that he made and the bombs for the Upside Down. Also Team Profiles for the entire gang as well as Vecna/Mindflayer’s army should definitely be a thing

 

[Ti58]

If the Abyss is a planet, even 1/13 of moving it (if we assume it's Earth-sized) might have the potential to get tier 5 results.

i am pretty sure the abyss is a dimension that also contains a planet that we see

 

[Ti58]

Also ngl I have a lot of questions about the 8-C scaling

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

I think before any CRTS are made we need to get the "Henry moving The Mind Flayer" calc accepted & make calcs for the Mind Flayers GPE & the Demogorgon's steel ripping feat (also possibly a calc for El throwing that huge rock, I'm willing to bet that's above Class 10 & could make a good supporting feat)

 

[Damage3245]

I thoroughly enjoyed the finale of the series. The whole final season was pretty good.

Overall I'd probably rank the seasons like this: 3 > 4 > 5 > 1 > 2.

 

[Kaydee1648]

Overall I'd probably rank the seasons like this: 3 > 4 > 5 > 1 > 2.

Valid list ngl
Season 3 was the best for me, with the Billy Hargrove incident, Russian mission, and the whole Erica moments.
Season 5 would have been higher had the finale been epic. I was expecting some sorta plot twist when Vecna was defeated at 1 hr into a 2 hr episode, just for it to be a whole 50 mins yap, doesn’t mean i didn’t enjoy it though.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Valid list ngl
Season 3 was the best for me, with the Billy Hargrove incident, Russian mission, and the whole Erica moments.
Season 5 would have been higher had the finale been epic. I was expecting some sorta plot twist when Vecna was defeated at 1 hr into a 2 hr episode, just for it to be a whole 50 mins yap, doesn’t mean i didn’t enjoy it though.

Pretty much my feelings, although it could’ve been a better finale I’m glad everyone got a happy ending

 

[Abscoolguy]

Curious if Vecna had any better feats in the season, though him losing a tug of war to Derek has to be the biggest aura loss

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Curious if Vecna had any better feats in the season, though him losing a tug of war to Derek has to be the biggest aura loss

Nah Derek's just that guy

 

[Dinobot1996]

So apparently, there's an offsite calculation for Jonathan getting thrown into a bookshelf in season 3 that ended up with 9-B results (though lower in the tier than the Demodog feat by a decent amount)

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

So apparently, there's an offsite calculation for Jonathan getting thrown into a bookshelf in season 3 that ended up with 9-B results (though lower in the tier than the Demodog feat by a decent amount)

I feel in general, everyone’s AP/physical stats as well as additional weaponry/abilities is due for a well needed upgrade, but this is definitely helpful. I mean, not saying it’s accurate, but it would be consistent with Steve being capable of batting Demogorgans no issue, and Lucas kicking the hell out of a demodog. Hell Karen Wheeler being capable of harming a Demo and Holly even scratching Vecna in the Mindscape is a pretty strong basis for at least a decade upgrade.

And especially Delightful Derek winning the tug of war with Henry

Also looking at the verse’s profiles, almost everyone could use a fresh profile pic/image ngl

 

[Quaticco]

Guys if conformitygate is real what should we do?

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

I feel in general, everyone’s AP/physical stats as well as additional weaponry/abilities is due for a well needed upgrade, but this is definitely helpful. I mean, not saying it’s accurate, but it would be consistent with Steve being capable of batting Demogorgans no issue, and Lucas kicking the hell out of a demodog. Hell Karen Wheeler being capable of harming a Demo and Holly even scratching Vecna in the Mindscape is a pretty strong basis for at least a decade upgrade.

And especially Delightful Derek winning the tug of war with Henry

Also looking at the verse’s profiles, almost everyone could use a fresh profile pic/image ngl

They were 9-B for a while but then got changed for some reason. Never understood why, Hopper has blatent scaling to Demodogs in Season 4 & hurt a slightly weakened Demogorgon with a sword (the same creatures that can resist bullets so piercing damage isn't a valid arguement)

This on top of Karen Wheeler 1v1ing a Demogorgon, Lucas knocking a Demodog back, Jonathan & Nancy surviving a several mile wide shockwave at relatively close range, that previous bookshelf calc (which has always come off as a Wall level feat to me), Dr. Brenner surviving getting mauled by a Demogorgon & El withstanding getting thrown around by Vecna & other telekinetics imo gives them more than enough proof for Wall level

I also came up with a list of feats I think we should calculate as this verse is missing a LOT of calculations for things. Here are some of them:

• Mind Flayer's GPE (For all forms)
• Eleven's rock throwing feat
• Jonathan & Nancy withstanding the shockwave from the exotic matter (we also have a diagram of the size of the Upside Down so we know how big the radius would be)
• Steve breaking through the hardened puddy to save Nancy & Jonathan
• Nancy getting launched across the room by the flesh thing
• Jonathan's bookshelf feat
• Eleven creating The Upside Down (idk if you can calculate how much energy it takes to create a wormhole but I think it's worth a shot)
• The Demogorgon ripping open the hole in the truck

I might be able to do a few of these, but the ones that require extensive pixel scaling aren't my strongsuit

 

[Ti58]

• Eleven creating The Upside Down (idk if you can calculate how much energy it takes to create a wormhole but I think it's worth a shot)

i feel like that would be just city level due to it containing the entire town

 

[Dinobot1996]

A couple recent supporting calculations that haven't been evaluated yet:

• Flayed Billy gets thrown through a wall (season 3)
• Demogorgons vs. metal plates (season 5)

 

[Ti58]

I think I have doubts about the 8-C+ calc that's being used a lot

The very assumption it's based on is that Eleven opened a gate to a parallel universe. But she never did. It's almost always been the Upside Down, which is not a dimension. She opened a gate once in 1979 to the Hellscape, a space between dimensions.

Also, for the Mind Flayer's proxy:

Attack Potency: Building level (Its size alone should warrant this. Easily destroyed a large portion of Hopper's Cabin. Took Eleven genuine effort to take it down)

Its size only warrants wall level by itself. Both KE and GPE are wall level/9-B.

Hopper's cabin feat has not been calculated but is certainly not building level.

Vecna's "Pre-Upside Down" key should be changed to "Pre-Abyss"

This durability key I doubt as well:

Durability: Building level+ (Survived having a portal being created on his body by Eleven)

He's just a normal human in terms of durability at that point. I severely doubt he scales that high.

Also, why does Brenner not have a page on the wiki?

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

I think I have doubts about the 8-C+ calc that's being used a lot

The very assumption it's based on is that Eleven opened a gate to a parallel universe. But she never did. It's almost always been the Upside Down, which is not a dimension. She opened a gate once in 1979 to the Hellscape, a space between dimensions.

The Upside Down was considered an alternate dimension for a while until Season 5 debunked that. I agree though, we shouldn't use that calc anymore as Mr. Clarke's theory has been proven to be wrong as of Season 5

Still think we should scale everyone to the Henry calc or the Mind Flayer's GPE

Also, for the Mind Flayer's proxy:


Its size only warrants wall level by itself. Both KE and GPE are wall level/9-B.

Hopper's cabin feat has not been calculated but is certainly not building level.

You'd have to provide a calc for that but if it comes out to 9-B then I'd agree

This durability key I doubt as well:

He's just a normal human in terms of durability at that point. I severely doubt he scales that high.

Also, why does Brenner not have a page on the wiki?

He also withstood getting struck by lightning multiple times which is Building level. He's also not a normal human, he has telekinetic powers

Brenner doesn't have one because he doesn't have much combat feats, but honestly he should get one, he has Wall level durability & Extraordinary Genius intellect so he has some justification for one

 

[Kaydee1648]

Vecna's "Pre-Upside Down" key should be changed to "Pre-Abyss"

You’re right. I have updated it.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I recalculated the calculation to open a portal, but it still needs evaluation.

Stranger Things: Eleven opens a gate ( Recalculation )

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's worth noting that after Eleven created the first two portals and the Upside Down, it became easier to open portals in Hawkins, which is why the Russos were there in the third season. And the Demogorgons can only open temporary portals if other permanent ones are already open.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

The Upside Down was considered an alternate dimension for a while until Season 5 debunked that. I agree though, we shouldn't use that calc anymore as Mr. Clarke's theory has been proven to be wrong as of Season 5

The Upside Down isn't another dimension, but the Abyss is. Eleven created a wormhole, and before that, a rift between the two. So Mr. Clark's theory was correct, but not in relation to the Upside Down (especially since the portals still have a gigantic electromagnetic field, as he indicated in his theory).

 

[Ti58]

The Upside Down was considered an alternate dimension for a while until Season 5 debunked that. I agree though, we shouldn't use that calc anymore as Mr. Clarke's theory has been proven to be wrong as of Season 5

my point here, yes

Still think we should scale everyone to the Henry calc

Maybe.

or the Mind Flayer's GPE

Wouldn't S5 El be stronger than say S1 El however?

You'd have to provide a calc for that but if it comes out to 9-B then I'd agree

Mind Flayer's proxy is made out of 28 humans and thousands of rats. THIRTY DEAD in the Starcourt Mall fire minus Hopper minus Billy Hargrove. Average human weight is 65 kg, so 28 x 65 kg = 1820 kg plus the rats. That results in 9-B GPE with a stated height of 9 meters. I mentioned KE but I don't think it's even applicable here.

He also withstood getting struck by lightning multiple times which is Building level.

Fair, I forgot about that

He's also not a normal human, he has telekinetic powers

yeah but i meant durability

Brenner doesn't have one because he doesn't have much combat feats, but honestly he should get one, he has Wall level durability & Extraordinary Genius intellect so he has some justification for one

A portal to the Abyss was made with his equipment in the 1950s (it's briefly shown in S5 when Henry Creel is transported there and is explained in the first shadow play more) which does also make him 8-C+ with equipment I guess. But yeah he should get one.

 

[Ti58]

The Upside Down isn't another dimension, but the Abyss is. Eleven created a wormhole, and before that, a rift between the two. So Mr. Clark's theory was correct, but not in relation to the Upside Down (especially since the portals still have a gigantic electromagnetic field, as he indicated in his theory).

Eleven created a gate to the Hellscape at first, an interdimensional space. And the wormhole feat is outright 7-B as said wormhole contains an entire town,

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Eleven created a gate to the Hellscape at first, an interdimensional space. And the wormhole feat is outright 7-B as said wormhole contains an entire town,

So before Abyss and Dimension X there was Hellspace, cool. As for the part about it being an interdimensional space, the image doesn't load.

Edit: I did some more research and understood what you meant. Even so, I still believe Clark's quote can be used.

 

[Dinobot1996]

Brenner would probably get limited Power Nullification, Electricity Manipulation, and Sleep Inducement through some of his equipment, though most of it wouldn't be practical in combat without prior setup.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

Given that there are now direct statements about the abyss being a planet, Henry should scale to a portion of the total energy of this feat.

Since we have multiple statements of Vecna being much stronger now, it shouldn't be a problem for Eleven either.

Eleven, Vecna, and Will should get new keys with something at level 5 if anyone can calculate that.