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Star Wars Revision: Darth Bane upgrade

Introductio

This is my second Star Wars revision post, this time about the legendary Sith'ari Darth Bane. I've been going over Darth Bane's profile here on VS Battles and I noticed that he needs an upgrade and more "Keys" to his character.

Darth Bane is currently ranked as Multi-Continent level (Base) and 'at least' Multi-Continent level (Orbalisk armor). I believe he should be upgraded with the additional character keys of the following:

-At least Multi-Continent' level' (Path of Destruction)

-At least Multi-Continent level, likely higher (with Orbalisks/Rule of Two)

-At least Multi-Continent level, likely far higher (Dynasty of Evil)


***NOTE: for the keys of Rule of Two and Dynasty of Evil, Darth Bane could be well into the Moon level or Planet level tiers in his prime (hence the 'higher' and 'far higher' stated above). Darth Zannah should also be the same tier as Bane in his prime (Dynasty of Evil) since she defeated him in a fair fight. This will be explained below.


Feats and Statements


Path of Destruction (PoD)

In the novel Path of Destruction, Darth Bane experienced a near-death on Ambria by the poison synox, where he went to Caleb hoping he would cure him. Caleb initially refused to heal him, but when Bane threatened his daughter's life, using the Force to levitate her over a boiling pot, he relented and healed the Sith Lord. This happened before he would go on to destroy the Brotherhood of Darkness on Ruusan. The Huntress, also later to be known as Darth Cognus, saw a vision of Bane with Caleb in his weakened state.

Darth Bane's power in 1000 BBY while poisoned was greater than anything the Huntress had ever observed before, despite her having felt the nexus on Ambria, and having just seen the history of the planet in which a Sith Sorceress dominated the planet with the Dark Side and Thon cleansed it:

"Hundreds of faces flashed before her. Male. Female. Human, Twi'lek, Cerean, Ithorian. Soldiers serving the Jedi, and even those serving the Sith. Caleb had healed them all. The only ones he turned away were the leaders of the armies. He saw himself a servant of the common folk. The Jedi Masters and the Sith Lords he always refused to help, with one notable exception.

The Huntress could see him now: a Sith Lord in black armor; the curved hilt of a lightsaber clipped to his belt as he towered over the healer. They were locked in a battle of wills, the big man dying from some illness she couldn't discern. Even though they were decades removed from the encounter, the Iktotchi sensed the raw power of the dark side emanating from him. It was like nothing she had seen or felt before, both terrifying and exhilarating."

(Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil)



The above quote was from the Dynasty of Evil novel reflecting back on Bane's time with Caleb in Path of Destruction. The current character page of Darth Bane fails to mention that he was severely weakened when Cognus envisioned him, and she finds him considerably more powerful in that state than the Devastation of Ambria, which was a wave of Force energy that killed all living beings on Ambria and warped and infused the landscape of Ambria with the dark side of the Force. This is where PoD Bane should be rated as 'at least Multi-Continent level'.


Rule of Two (RoT)

Next we have Bane in Rule of Two, known for his Orbalisk armor in this time period. This is where he is on Dxun and comes across the holocron of Freedon Nadd. The novel Bane of the Sith takes place at the same time when Bane was stuck on Dxun. Darth Bane was able to move the moon Dxun out of its orbit to get it closer to Onderon:

"Now that he understood the depths of Sith powers, he thought he might even have control over worlds and moons, able to play with orbits and gravity like a child might play with colored balls.
Long ago, Dxun had grazed the planet Onderon, close enough that it was possible for creatures to pass across the conjoined atmosphere. Perhaps Bane could nudge the beast moon close enough so that he could travel to the nearby planet that filled the sky. In bloodshed and chaos, Darth Bane would go to Onderon... and there he would find his apprentice."

(Bane of the Sith)



Darth Bane moved the moon Dxun when he had only TWO orbalisks. In Rule of Two, when Bane is first affixed with two orbalisks, he learns that he can tap into their ability to feed on dark side energy to greatly increase his command of the Force, and upon first drawing upon them for power, he becomes more powerful than he had ever been before:

"Through the gatekeeper, Bane learned of the Dark Master's experiments with the orbalisks, and his only partly successful efforts to control their power. He discovered not only what they were called, but also all the details of their ecology. Some of the information merely confirmed what he already knew: once attached to a host the orbalisks could not be removed. But he also learned that, in addition to boosting a host's physical abilities, it was possible to tap into the parasites' ability to feed on the dark side to greatly increase one's own command of the Force."

(Darth Bane: Rule of Two)


"Bane reached inward to call upon the dark side, drawing it not only from himself but also from the orbalisks fastened to his chest and back. Feeling an incredible surge of power beyond any he had known before, he released it in a burst of energy. The hallucinations that had plagued his wounded mind ever since the detonation of the thought bomb vanished, instantly and utterly annihilated by his newfound power. He was stronger now than he ever had bee, and he knew the visions of the dead Sith would haunt him no more."

(Darth Bane: Rule of Two)



Darth Bane is clearly stated to be considerably more powerful with just two orbalisks than his PoD self where Cognus perceives him to be much more powerful than the Devastation of Ambria in a weakened state. This following quote proves that Darth Bane had only two orbalisks once he met Zannah on Onderon, and that the orbalisks only started to spread after being with Zannah for quite some time:

"Bane was sitting by the blaze waiting for her, stirring at a bubbling pot of bland-smelling stew. He had taken off his shirt in the summer night's heat. In the flickering glow of the flames,' his apprentice could see that the orbalisks were beginning to spread. 'The one on the back of his shoulder had traced its way across his bicep to the elbow of his heavily muscled arm, while the organism on his chest now extended halfway down his abdominal muscles and partway up his throat. Several narrow, dark bands of softer-looking flesh bisected each shell vertically, and the girl realized that in addition to growing, the creatures were about to split apart and multiply."

(Darth Bane: Rule of Two)



So this quote shows that he had one on the back of his shoulder and the other one on his chest before they began to multiply. Now obviously RoT Bane ten years into the infestation is more powerful and has a greater command of the Force than he did at the beginning of his infestation. First of all, ten years later Bane has an additional decade of experience wielding the dark side under his belt. That's just common sense.

Secondly, at the tail end of Bane's orbalisk infestation, he has far more orbalisks affixed to his body, which grants him far more of them to draw power from:

"Should one of the organisms somehow be killed, it would release rapidly increasing levels of toxins, killing its host in a matter of days. The orbalisks would also grow over time, slowly spreading until they covered his entire body from head to toe. Fortunately, along with this disturbing revelation, Bane discovered blueprints for a special helmet and face guard designed to keep the parasites from growing over his eyes, nose, and mouth while he slept."

(Darth Bane: Rule of Two)



At this point, Bane probably has hundreds of orbalisks covering his body. Now remember Bane moved the moon Dxun when he only had two. With hundreds of orbalisks covering him, he likely has the potential to move dozens of moons or planets at once! And next, Bane is more knowledgeable on the ways of the Dark Side, given his continued study of Freedon Nadd's holocron over that time frame, as well as his study of other Sith lore.

So clearly, Bane at the tail end of his orbalisk infestation is substantially more powerful than he was at the beginning of his orbalisk infestation. At this point, he should be rated as 'at least Multi-Continent level, likely higher'. Darth Bane could possibly be in the Moon level or Planet level with his orbalisks.


Dynasty of Evil (DoE)

Darth Bane as of Dynasty of Evil however is bereft of the orbalisks, and thus many assume he lacks the power he wielded when encrusted with orbalisks. Bane is considerably more powerful in DoE, despite his lack of orbalisks, than in RoT based on a comparison of his physical capabilities, namely in his respective fights with Darth Zannah.

First off, the RoT fight:

"She fell into a defensive posture as she so often had during their training sessions. But this was no drill, and her Master came at her with a speed and ferocity she had never faced before. Giving in to his orbalisk-fueled bloodrage, he was like a wild animal, raining savage blows down on her from all angles, the strikes coming so fast it seemed as if he wielded a dozen blades at the same time."

(Darth Bane: Rule of Two)
"She scrambled to her feet and twirled her lightsaber before her, creating what she hoped would be an impenetrable wall of defense. Instead of trying to pierce her guard, Bane leapt high in the air and came down almost right on top of her. She deftly parried his blade, redirecting it to the side as she spun away to keep his body from slamming into her."

(Darth Bane: Rule of Two)

Now the DoE fight:

"He opened with a series of two-handed overhead chops, using his great height to bring his blade hacking down at her from above. She easily blocked each blow, but the momentum of the crushing impact caused her to stagger back, throwing her off balance."

(Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil)
"'
He was faster than she could ever have imagined', and he was using new sequences and unfamiliar moves he had never revealed during their practice sessions."

(Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil)


It is apparent from the text that Bane is quite blatantly faster in Dynasty of Evil than he was in Rule of Two, as is confirmed by Bane being "faster than [Zannah] could've ever imagined" in their final duel, despite her having faced him while he was in an orbalisk fueled bloodlust, and having witnessed him face the Shadow Assassins and the Jedi strike team on Tython while he was encrusted with the orbalisks. Bane's physical strength also appears more impressive in his final duel with Zannah than in their bout in Rule of Two, as in Rule of Two Zannah blocked a strike in which Bane leapt into the air and brought his blade upon her without staggering, yet in Dynasty of Evil, Bane's less extensive overhand chops send Zannah staggering despite Zannah having easily blocked them.

What's especially important to remember in regards to these two showings of strength is the ten year disparity between RoT Zannah and DoE Zannah. DoE Zannah is far more experienced, knowledgeable and skilled, which makes her a more talented lightsaber duelist as of DoE, and she is far more powerful in Dynasty of Evil as well, which grants her superior Force-based physical augmentation.
This is all illustrated by how far beneath Bane Zannah is in Rule of Two in both skill and power, even when Bane is wounded and without his orbalisks.

"You cant die yet, Zannah thought bitterly, chewing on her lip. There's so much more you have to teach me!"

(Darth Bane: Rule of Two)
"She could feel Bane's power-whole once more-coursing through his veins. She could feel the heat of his anger, and she knew one wrong word and he'd snap her neck in two with the Force."

(Darth Bane: Rule of Two)
"Over the years Bane had tracked her progress carefully, and he could no longer say with certainty which one of them would survive a confrontation between them."

(Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil)


Thus it is apparent that DoE Bane is more physically impressive than RoT Bane. This is important because without Force-based physical augmentation, RoT Bane would definitely be superior physically, as the orbalisks increase his physical capabilities, even when there were only two of them affixed to his body.This is a very important detail because it means that for Bane to be physically superior in Dynasty of Evil, DoE Bane's Force-based physical augmentation would have to outstrip RoT Bane's Force-based physical augmentation and the physical augmentation RoT Bane received from the orbalisks COMBINED. Since ROT Bane's focus in combat was overpowering his enemy with his sheer physical might, DOE Bane would need to be more powerful in the Force to achieve such a level of Force-based physical augmentation to surpass him.
Some may ask how it's possible for Bane to be more powerful in Dynasty of Evil without the power boost provided by the orbalisks. Again, he first off has the advantage of another decade of experience wielding the Dark Side, as is common sense.

Secondly, he has the advantage of more knowledge regarding the dark side of the Force. In the decade between Rule of Two and Dynasty of Evil, Bane has both amassed a library of Sith knowledge, and uncovered the holocron of the legendary Sorzus Syn.

And thirdly, because of the vastly greater willpower DoE Bane possesses in comparison to RoT Bane, as shown by his examples of pain tolerance (I would give quotes here but this post is getting pretty long). Thus DoE Bane became more powerful than he was in RoT, due to greater experience, greater knowledge, and greater willpower (which is a key component in dark side power).

This is the section where Darth Bane should be rated as 'at least Multi-Continent level, likely far higher'. Bane at this point of time in DoE should definitely be in the Moon level or Planet level tiers as per 'far higher' statement.


Conclusion

Darth Bane needs to be upgraded to 'at least' Multi-Continent level (PoD), 'at least' Multi-Continent level, likely higher (RoT/with Orbalisk armour), and 'at least' Multi-Continent level, likely far higher (DoE).

Darth Zannah should also get the same rating as Darth Bane in his prime (DoE) since she killed him in the final fight to claim the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith.

The ratings above for RoT and DoE are low-end scales, since Darth Bane could very well be in the Moon level or Planet level tiers in both character keys. I would love to hear the thoughts of the community since I think Darth Bane and Darth Zannah should be Moon/Planet level.
 
The part about Bane moving the moon was retconed to him just flying a Drexl across the vacuum of space while shielding both of them. So he never moved the moon canonically. Its weird that you even mentioned it when Darth Bane: Rule of Two went over how he got off the moon.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The part about Bane moving the moon was retconed to him just flying a Drexl across the vacuum of space while shielding both of them. So he never moved the moon canonically. Its weird that you even mentioned it when Darth Bane: Rule of Two went over how he got off the moon.
Not sure if this this post/calc went completely down the drain but I couldn't find any comments on that page indicating that the quotes from Bane of the Sith are full out false. The calculations are definitely wrong since Bane didn't move the planet WITH the moon, just the moon itself. I understand the assumption that the feat was rectoned but Bane of the Sith is still canon in Legends (from my knowledge at least) and the majority of the internet including Comic Vine and KillerMovies accept the feat of Bane moving a moon.

Take it or leave it as you will I guess: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Darkanine/Star_Wars:_Darth_Bane_%22nudges%22_a_planet_with_a_Moo
 
The quote from Bane of the Sith exists, but it was events were changed completly in the actual novel that contradict the events of the short story (plus the short story itself has other lore errors). In Rule of Two this is how Bane moves off world


> majority of the internet including Comic Vine and KillerMovies accept the feat of Bane moving a moon.


So? Other sites could be wrong or ignoring context. Appealing to popularity isn't really a solid argument
 
You can ask Soldier Blue and The Everlasting to comment here via their message walls.
 
I agree that other sites can be wrong on many of things, and I've seen some people say that he didn't move a moon based on Rule of Two. However, from the link I provided above it seems like this site even accepts the fact he moved the moon. I rolled through the comments on that page and I visited many other threads on this website and I couldn't find anything concrete at all saying that Bane moving a moon is complete BS.

Most people on this site (from what I've seen) gladly point out that Bane moved Dxun. There are contradictions far worse than this one in the EU, but many have at least been fixed (somewhat) by the authors or by 'higher canon' sources overriding the former. From what we know, Rule of Two is of the same canon tier as Bane of the Sith and no author claims state that what Bane did in "Bane of the Sith" is wrong. So the next thing to do is to go by the widely accepted context, and from the majority of the net (this site included), most people go with Bane moving the moon.

^Antvasima I will contact them soon to see what they think.

If anyone can show me that Bane moving Dxun is not accepted at all, I'll gladly take that into consideration.
 
> From what we know, Rule of Two is of the same canon tier as Bane of the Sith


They are both C-Canon yes, but Rule of Two came after Bane of the Sith and changed what happened. In the context of Bane of the Sith he did move the moon, but in the context of the Legends universe he just flew a Drexl into outerspace.
 
"Perhaps Bane could nudge the beast moon close enough so that he could travel to the nearby planet that filled the sky. "

Regarding this quote here, it is just a theory whether Darth Bane could actually move the moon in that scene or not, so a concrete tiering for him moving the Moon probably wouldn't apply in this case.

And since there is no timeframe for how quickly the Moon would have moved closer to Dxun (nor how closer the Moon was to the planet's atmosphere), the kinetic energy, nor the Gravitational Potential Energy of the Moon cannot be found for it either.

  • NOTE: The Gravitational Potential Energy of the Moon in its orbit of an Earth-like Planet is 7.63e22 megajoules, or 7.63e28 Joules. That is Multi-Continent level+
"With hundreds of orbalisks covering him, he likely has the potential to move dozens of moons or planets at once!"

  • Not entirely sure about this, but the multiplier that the orbalisks is not really clear, thus it is impossible to just assume that he could move dozens of Moon, or planets while donning it, because he has neither thought about, or attempted to move these moons/planets at any point in the series.
  • Meanwhile, in Rule of Two, Zannah (while still an apprentice), didn't do that much worse than Bane (with the Orbalisk armor) against the scene where they go and battle numerous Jedi Masters, so even with Bane having the Orbalisk armor, he probably didn't gain that much of a strength gap in comparison to his self without the armor (the strength gap isn't that drastic (like > 1000s times increase, I mean).
 
ShieldsPlus said:
"Perhaps Bane could nudge the beast moon close enough so that he could travel to the nearby planet that filled the sky. "

Regarding this quote here, it is just a theory whether Darth Bane could actually move the moon in that scene or not, so a concrete tiering for him moving the Moon probably wouldn't apply in this case.

And since there is no timeframe for how quickly the Moon would have moved closer to Dxun (nor how closer the Moon was to the planet's atmosphere), the kinetic energy, nor the Gravitational Potential Energy of the Moon cannot be found for it either.
Hey Shields, its been a while. I agree that Bane's strength increase is vague, his force power seemed to have been increased dramatically. Up in my main post I pointed out that is command of the Force was greatly increased with just two orbalisks, with Bane himself stating that he is much more powerful than he had ever been and was shocked in newfound power. If he found himself greatly more powerful with just two, his Force potential with HUNDREDS of orbalisks is likely unbelievable compared to his PoD self.

In regards with the novels, Bane moves the moon in Bane of the Sith but that changes in another novel (which is of same canon tier). If we go by Bane of the Sith, moving multiple moons/planets seems likely given that specific context.

Even if Bane moving Dxun is completely disregarded and deemed as false:

Bane with 100's of orbalisks>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bane with 2 orbalisks>>>>PoD Bane who is 'at least' High-6A+ (much greater than Devastation of Ambria while poisoned and dying)

And also: DoE Bane>>>>>>Bane with 100's of Orbalisks
 
But still, it's not exactly clear whether Bane actually moved the Moon or not, and that feat was contradicten when the comics version of that scene doesn't actually show Bane moving the Moon at all.

Overall, that feat should be disregarded, because it's not really a feat in the first place.
 
As for how much power increase those orbalisks provided, even if Bane has grown in terms of strength with the orbalisks attached to his body, the exact number of times Bane's power multiplied isn't stated.

It's just that he just got quite a bit stronger because of it. It could be 2x, 4x, who knows?

  • But since the recent upgrade regarding Yarael Poof's AP was accepted, this already provides a massive boost to Bane's AP as well.
  • I think that "At least Small Planet level+, possibly Planet level" sounds fine, probably because the Sith Shrine that was beneath the Jedi Temple in Coruscant kind of weakened the Jedi's overall powers in general.
 
ShieldsPlus said:
As for how much power increase those orbalisks provided, even if Bane has grown in terms of strength with the orbalisks attached to his body, the exact number of times Bane's power multiplied isn't stated.

It's just that he just got quite a bit stronger because of it. It could be 2x, 4x, who knows?
Yeah I understand that the amount of power progression from PoD to RoT to DoE is vague, all we know is that Bane with full suit of Orbalisks is dramatically more powerful than is PoD self, with his DoE self being considerably more powerful than when he had Orbalisks.

With the acceptance of Poof's feat, I totally agree with the rating of 'at least' small planet level+, possibly Planet level. But which era of Bane does this apply to? Dynasty of Evil Bane?

Even if Bane becomes roughly 5-B, he still needs the extra character keys for his ratings added to his profile (ex: Path of Destruction|Rule of Two|Dynasty of Evil). Whatever rating Bane gets in his prime (DoE), Zannah gets the same rating since she surpassed him in a fair fight to the death
 
We should also try to get some more Star Wars experts in here to get some different point of views
 
Well, since the Planet level upgrade was accepted in that Star Wars thread, you could start off with setting Path of Destruction Bane as Planet level. It depends on how strong PoD Bane was in comparison to Council Jedi members such as Yarael Poof, however.
 
Hmm I'm not exactly sure how they compare. For PoD Bane, all we know is that he's 'at least' Multi-Continent level while poisoned and dying in Cognus' vision of the past. That's why I've been trying to get Everlasting, Matt and Soldier Blue in here but it seems like they're busy
 
I've wanted to add a key for Bane in Dynasty of Evil for a while but never bothered.

While I don't necessarily agree with the usage of "At least" and "likely (far) higher" and the like, I do agree with the general propositions.
 
Everlasting, I've been wanting to ask:

Since Poof's planetary feat has been accepted, does that apply to Bane and Zannah? Or only prequel era Force users?
 
Bane has a ton of accolades related to his power, clearly regarding him as incredibly powerful. There are a few more, but they're statements by Drew Karpyshyn (The author of the Darth Bane trilogy) so I'm not gonna use them.

In his quest for domination, Darth Sidious tracked down what remained of five pivotal Sith texts written by his most powerful predecessors.

-- Book of Sith Synopsis

Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt.


-- Behind the Threat: The Sith

Despite his status as a Jedi Council member, Yarael Poof is basically a nobody in the Star Wars universe. He has no accolades related to his power while Bane is repeatedly regarded as extremely powerful.

Poof being able to one-shot Bane is just plain silly.
 
Awesome. Zannah gets the same planetary rating as Bane in his prime since she killed him in a fair fight. But which era of Bane does the 5-B rating apply to? PoD? DoE?

Since it seems like we are going ahead with the extra character keys for Bane, we need to know what rating each key gets.
 
I just remembered that it could be possible to add more keys to Zannah, but its hard to tell how powerful she is during Path of Destruction and Rule of Two
 
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