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Star Fox discussion

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DarkDragonMedeus

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Was planning on a Content revision at some point, but I see we don't necessarily have a General Discussion for the series. But anyway, I might as well get to some of the main topic.

First off, it should be noted that Star Fox 64 is the first Cano game in the main series; Star Fox 64 is a remake/reboot of combining the first two games into one. Even before Metroid and Fire Emblem did this, Star Fox was the first Nintendo franchise that I know of to make the first two entries non-canon due to remakes having more elaborate and in depth story; or first 3 in Fire Emblem's case. So any feats taken from the first two games should preferably be removed. More info can be found here and here.

First stat I wanted to discuss was speed. The FTL Arwing is good, but one of the feats used as a justification should be removed. It looks like the Black hole feat came from the non canon original. If there's another black hole feat from another game, then go for it. Other feats are still consistent with the rating, so they're good, as for the Arwings being FTL. However, this may scale to the combat speed and reactions of the Star Fox & Star Wolf team members piloting them. Not only due both videos demostrate the FTL flight speed feats, but Fox is more than capable of simultaneously avoiding objects and dodging projectiles coming right in front of him while flying at said speeds. Additionally, I'm unsure if the "lasers" attached to arwing are considered real lasers, but if they are, that could serve as another justification for their combat speed as well. As for movement speed, unsure how that will be affected, but I do vaguely recall that Fox can run faster than the Landmaster tank; which is Subsonic. So maybe?

And last but not the least is all the power stats; Tier, Attack Potency, Durability, ect. There are quite a few inconsistencies that might take a while to go into detail. Krazoa God Andross is Country level to Continent level, possibly Planet level with the two low ends scaling to the Arwing, Wolfe, Landmaster, and the Aparoid Quee. It is reasonable to scale him to them, but then we got base Andross appearing much weaker among other things. This can be open for discussion. Krazoa God Andross in particular seems like he should be much higher than 6-B to 6-A though. He did break the planet apart and it got restored when he was finished, but that seems like High 6-A to 5-C at bare minimum. Considering the 4 Spellstones combined make of the GBE of Sauria, and the 6 Krazoa spirits created them and the planet of Sauria, it seems Low 5-B actually makes sense considering 59.44 Zetatons/(4 or 6) = roughly 10 to 15 Zetatons. But since this form of Andross should be stronger to this base form, albeit to an unknown extent, but Fox is able to beat either one of them with an Arwing, so Arwing is indeed comparable. But it's whether or not the Arwing used in Adventures is a more advanced model than the SF64 version is the question.

Anyway, I'll probably link this to Dino Ranger Black since he seems knowledgeable about the topic and all input is much appreciated.
 
I do agree that we should remove the Black Hole feats after the recent revisions we made for Black Hole-related feats in fiction but I don't believe Fox being faster than the Landmaster should be a valid reason to be Subsonic. Only if people are willing to scale him to Wolf, who is with an actual Subsonic feat.

Ask for the Arwing's AP, we don't know the exact size of Sauria or the piece broken off from the planet, nor do we have a calculation of this. Because of this, High 6-A would be more appropriate since mutiple sections of the planet have seperated at once, unless you can find a more plausible reason for the feat to be 5-C.
 
Fair enough I suppose about the first paragraph. Though, I do think Fox should be Superhuman for movement speed at bare minimum though. Although, any thoughts on Fox's combat speed being scaled to Arwing? I agree that High 6-A does seem reasonable for Arwing and possibly Landmaster; if LM does have more fire power in canon.

I also did notice some of the pilots in person have inconsistent stats; Building level durability with Wall Class striking strength among other things. We could probably calc Slippy falling and crash landing on Titania to scale to their physical AP and durability. Titania is a small planet with 0.48 times Earth's gravity; but it's still a pretty long fall none of the less.
 
Actually, having the Fox and co.'s durability at Building level but the Striking Strength Wall Level is justified with Starfox Assualt being the proof of it. At one point, Fox fought a Building-sized Aparoid. While he can endure the creature's attacks by himself (Albiet he loses a great deal of health), he can only hurt it with the Landmaster.
 
Fair enough I suppose, though I still think a calc for Slippy's fall does still sound like a good idea. And I suppose Fox is a bit of a tank based on how the cutscenes of Star Fox Adventures portray him as being undamaged when all the guards and everything attack him and all he does is casually repel the spears.
 
So the point on 64 being a reboot for the first two games, shouldn't the same be applied to Star fox zero? Which was a reboot of 64 iirc. (Unless we treat Zero as it's own canon that is). The scaling to the aparoid queen I'm a bit skeptical of since the only form of andross' presence shown in Assault was in the first mission, where the remaining of Andross' armies were destroyed by both Star Fox and the aparoids, the latter which were able to overwhelm both the good guys and bad guys with it's possession ability.
 
Star Fox Zero takes place before Star Fox 64 actually; it initially takes place when the Star Fox Team are at the flight academy. And well, the Aparoid Queen is still comparable to the Arwings who are in turn comparable to Krazoa God Andross. Anyway, being unable to harm the building sized Aparoids might be a game mechanic considering that I'm pretty sure the Star Fox and Star Wolf team should be able to harm each other.
 
Technically, it's a general discussion, but so far. Looks like High 6-A for the Arwing, Landmaster, and end game bosses that scale to them. And the Black Hole feat from the original Star Fox should be removed; both for the black hole rules and original Star Fox's canonicity. There was another possibility about Subsonic or at least SuperHuman movement speed scaling from Wolf O'Donnell

Other things that haven't gotten quite enough feed back, would be if the Arwing speed could scale to the combat speed and reactions of the pilots; since they can actively dodge projectiles and objects right in front of them while travelling in the warps. And the pilots themselves being rubber tanks still seems like could use more discussion.

And by the way, Welcome back Dino!
 
Bumping this, looks like @Dark649 already took care adding the High 6-A tiers for most profiles; except base Andross still looks a bit too weak ATM. There's also Andross having FTL combat speed scaling to the Arwing and dodging lasers; this should scale to Fox's combat speed assuming it's legit as well as other pilots. Though, combat speed in general still needs more discussion.

And also, those Building sized Aparoids are currently "At least Large Building level possibly Multi-Continent level"; I don't think we should use that as a justification for Building level durability. But perhaps this could be calc'd and used to scale to the durability of Slippy and the others.
 
The pilots does not scale from their vehicles, not even combat speed it was discussed several times.
 
Fair enough, but then Andross might need a combat speed downgrade.
 
I don't see how other peoolw piloting FTL ships can get the scaling, but a series that focuses on quick-thinking and adaptation to steer through the environment unscathed doesn't sound reasonable. That's just me though
 
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