Standard size of Extraterrestrial spaceships and facilities.

[Reiner04]

Uh so well, I just recently did a calc that got rejected due to being size of Belgium (around 40000 km²). Well, as far as I can see nothing wrong with calc itself (let me know if there's smth I missed or yk..). The satellite was plumbers training center. Supposedly was made to fight and prove that one (or team) is capable of becoming plumbers. Other shots of satellite shows that too that satellite is big enough to be comparable to earth. So I wanted to ask if being this big can be cause of automatic rejection? Is there any standard size of ship or smth? I can see Boros ship to be around 6000 km², so mine ship is around 7 times of it. Anyway, just meaning to ask.

 

[Arkenis]

any other shots of the spaceship?

 

[Reiner04]

any other shots of the spaceship?

Yeah I'll grab it gives me a moment.

 

[Reiner04]

any other shots of the spaceship?

There are others too which are nearly similar to what used in the calc.

 

[Arkenis]

I'd add the stuff about it killing millions onto the calc as that would help support its size is far greater than the average satellite. And also the cgm hasn't replied to anything you've said otherwise so it may be best to add anything else to help and wait for other opinions.

 

[Reiner04]

I'd add the stuff about it killing millions onto the calc as that would help support its size is far greater than the average satellite. And also the cgm hasn't replied to anything you've said otherwise so it may be best to add anything else to help and wait for other opinions.

Okaish ! Ig I'll wait till he reply.

 

[Reiner04]

There are others too which are nearly similar to what used in the calc.

In this shot too I get main base length around 302 km (I used corrected diameter), which in humungausaur calc shot has 232 km, so I think it's close enough accurate for objects as large as this and consistent too.

 

[DontTalkDT]

From what I see the distance between the satellite and the POV (/ the satellite and Earth) is essentially a random guess. Like, there is no reason a LEO sattelite would be 1000km away in particular. 1900km is also LEO for example. That invalidates the scaling.
(And there is the issue of perspective, with the view not being such that satellite and earth center are in a straight line of the POV)

 

[Reiner04]

From what I see the distance between the satellite and the POV (/ the satellite and Earth) is essentially a random guess. Like, there is no reason a LEO sattelite would be 1000km away in particular. 1900km is also LEO for example. That invalidates the scaling.
(And there is the issue of perspective, with the view not being such that satellite and earth center are in a straight line of the POV)

Actually in the show, it was shown that satellite orbits above 500 km (as in beyond) from the Earth's surface, and since they didn't really mentioned above 1000 km, I thought it might actually be too much to go far beyond that end, so I took 1000 km and in the other shot it's height was about 1200 km (by pixel scaling distance from earth's surface) but then the size of satellite was about 600 km which is half of the size of what I got in on going scene where feat happened. What size i actually take in this case?

 

[Reiner04]

Some sites mentions that LEO satellites can range from 400 km to 2000 km. And some mentions that they're about less than 1000 km normally.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/vleo

Low Earth orbit

Low Earth orbit

www.esa.int

What is a Low Orbit Satellite? | Bright Ascension

Among the most popular ways to put satellites into advantageous positions is that of low Earth orbit, but what is it?

brightascension.com

 

[ReturnofKhadz]

Uh so well, I just recently did a calc that got rejected due to being size of Belgium (around 40000 km²).

Well sorry, but it’s because the calc is pure nonsense.

•I suppose, via angsizing, the small pod the plumber’s helpers took is city-sized too? Here too.
•Well, I’ll tell you now; it isn’t. Here’s how Humungousaur (in his 60ft form) looks next to the pod. We see the inside of the pod anyway.
•Here’s how the pod looks in comparison to the satellite... here AND here are also different angles showing the docking gate of the satellite when the pod enters (a gate clearly visible from a full shot of the satellite).
•The entire plan of the ship is mapped out and, throughout the whole episode, characters would go from one side to the other (not just Helen). Are they all hypersonic speedsters?
•Furthermore, even if the satellite was somehow country-sized, it doesn’t even seem like Humungousaur moving it is impressive. Not in the way you calculated it using KE at least. Some malfunction earlier caused the gravity scope of the ship to shutdown, and it already starting shaking about violently inside. The ship naturally started falling.
•And yeah, the exact orbital altitude was given (as well as trajectory for x-displacement). The ship was going to land in London and kill millions. It’s a common trope in fiction, especially in Ben 10 it seems, where terminal velocity impacts are greatly exaggerated. This seems to just be the case. And, how would a Belgium-sized satellite only land in London and kill their millions? Belgium is nearly the size of England as a whole (in area). It’d cover nearly the whole country, no?

So yeah, the CE was right to disregard this. You probably should do.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Actually in the show, it was shown that satellite orbits above 500 km (as in beyond) from the Earth's surface, and since they didn't really mentioned above 1000 km, I thought it might actually be too much to go far beyond that end, so I took 1000 km and in the other shot it's height was about 1200 km (by pixel scaling distance from earth's surface) but then the size of satellite was about 600 km which is half of the size of what I got in on going scene where feat happened. What size i actually take in this case?

Above 500km can really be anything.
And not sure how you pixel scale the height from the earth's surface. That sounds like perspective should prevent it.

 

[Reiner04]

•I suppose, via angsizing, the small pod the plumber’s helpers took is city-sized too? Here too.

Do we know from where these pods are coming actually? It can be coming from anywhere so I'm not sure what's it's distance from earth tbh.

Well, I’ll tell you now; it isn’t. Here’s how Humungousaur (in his 60ft form) looks next to the pod. We see the inside of the pod anyway

The question above.

satellite... here AND here are also different angles showing the docking gate of the satellite when the pod enters (a gate clearly visible from a full shot of the satellite).

I personally wouldn't take smth that is not consistent and contradicts stated sizes. The satellite crashing is enough to kill millions of ppls, but your view satellite is not bypassing even atmosphere I feel, reaching earth surface or anywhere near enough is far things. So contradicted.
We ought take sizes which do not contradict the setting and consistency of showings afaik.

•The entire plan of the ship is mapped out and, throughout the whole episode, characters would go from one side to the other (not just Helen). Are they all hypersonic speedsters

All I see is them travelling from upper entrance to lower monitor room which shouldn't be high enough, given that we don't even know the timing in which they all have been looking for max, at the end of episode Manny says she will go nd look for max, so they didn't searched entire satellite but just few areas. They should be capable of running 1 km per person minute, considering super human capabilities and plumbers training. So it will take them 116 minute travelling 116 km, so they can almost search the half of entire side of main base anyway. So it's not feat. Not when nothing is known.

•Furthermore, even if the satellite was somehow country-sized, it doesn’t even seem like Humungousaur moving it is impressive. Not in the way you calculated it using KE at least. Some malfunction earlier caused the gravity scope of the ship to shutdown, and it already starting shaking about violently inside. The ship naturally started falling

Just ignore that how satellite was completely still until humangasaur smashed himself on it. They went as far as to show the consequences of his smash from outside view right at the moment. Seems like contextless assertion. Not to mention Helen mentioned it that satellite is losing its orbit, not that it has lost its orbit already and has been crashing. It took a time till a complete effect of core brokedown was starting to act. But either way as i said, it was clear enough that satellite was still and smashed down within that moment.

And yeah, the exact orbital altitude was given (as well as trajectory for x-displacement). The ship was going to land in London and kill millions. It’s a common trope in fiction, especially in Ben 10 it seems, where terminal velocity impacts are greatly exaggerated. This seems to just be the case. And, how would a Belgium-sized satellite only land in London and kill their millions? Belgium is nearly the size of England as a whole (in area). It’d cover nearly the whole country, no?

Welp, it's trajectory was indeed towards London but its impact could be higher than that, given it's a 80% hollow and was breaking it's parts midway of crashing into smaller parts, I'd say it's impact would eventually turn lower, but as stated it'll kill millions right on the impact but it's future impact might be devastating for earth itself with all climate change stuff possibly (hopefully not exaggerating), but yeah, considering it a hyperbole is totally your choice when I wouldn't unless I see contradiction not a random pull off from me can be expected.

 

[Reiner04]

And not sure how you pixel scale the height from the earth's surface. That sounds like perspective should prevent it.

I'm not a calc guy so not sure, all I did was just putting values in formulas shown but can I take the above image into consideration then? It shows clear height btw satellite and earth and it's size in comparison.

 

[ReturnofKhadz]

Do we know from where these pods are coming actually? It can be coming from anywhere so I'm not sure what's it's distance from earth tbh.

Why not? We can see the curvature. It’s pretty clear. Also, I do hope you know I was being sarcastic there.

The question above.

What about it? Referring back to your previous question isn’t addressing how the pod, which is visible compared to the whole satellite itself, is barely larger than 60ft Humungousaur.

I personally wouldn't take smth that is not consistent and contradicts stated sizes.

Consistent? There is basis for consistency concerning the satellite being country-sized. The consistent size of the satellite shown on-screen is easily skewed more to my premise, rather than yours.

The satellite crashing is enough to kill millions of ppls, but your view satellite is not bypassing even atmosphere I feel, reaching earth surface or anywhere near enough is far things. So contradicted.
We ought take sizes which do not contradict the setting and consistency of showings afaik.

What you feel doesn’t really matter. A supposed country-sized satellite falling only to London makes zero sense, as it’d impact and cover like 90% of England as a whole. The plumber‘s helpers wouldn’t have been able to ascertain the trajectory point exactly to a city if the ship would’ve covered not only the city, but the whole country it resided in. Dude, just think about it logically. The ship being 400km above the edge of the atmosphere (karman line) is supported both visually and via numbers given in-episode.

All I see is them travelling from upper entrance to lower monitor room which shouldn't be high enough, given that we don't even know the timing in which they all have been looking for max, at the end of episode Manny says she will go nd look for max, so they didn't searched entire satellite but just few areas. They should be capable of running 1 km per person minute, considering super human capabilities and plumbers training. So it will take them 116 minute travelling 116 km, so they can almost search the half of entire side of main base anyway. So it's not feat. Not when nothing is known.

Incorrect. The side they enter from is the very end of the satellite. On the map, it’s the far left. The trackers shown throughout the episode were in the middle, near the far-right, etc. they should be covering dozens of km, per your scale of the satellite. In different scenes, they traverse 1/3 the satellite’s length in seconds/minute time-frame. Stop reaching.

Just ignore that how satellite was completely still until humangasaur smashed himself on it. They went as far as to show the consequences of his smash from outside view right at the moment. Seems like contextless assertion. Not to mention Helen mentioned it that satellite is losing its orbit, not that it has lost its orbit already and has been crashing. It took a time till a complete effect of core brokedown was starting to act. But either way as i said, it was clear enough that satellite was still and smashed down within that moment.

Again, I said the way you quantified it using KE is inapplicable. The way it moved down would be towards to the Earth…yknow, the direction gravity pulls? The core malfunctioning and all, means it was not in a stable orbit. The way you calculated it is wrong.

Welp, it's trajectory was indeed towards London but its impact could be higher than that, given it's a 80% hollow and was breaking it's parts midway of crashing into smaller parts, I'd say it's impact would eventually turn lower, but as stated it'll kill millions right on the impact and it's future impact might be devastating for earth itself with all climate change stuff possibly (hopefully not exaggerating), but yeah, considering it a hyperbole is totally your choice when I wouldn't unless I show contradiction not a random pull off from me can be expected.

Lol, so 95% of the ship would conveniently break apart, just so that your independent view of it being country-sized stands? If the ship was breaking into dozens of city-sized pieces, more than London would be affected. So your assertion still doesn’t work. You’re misconstruing the narrative they gave, pretending the entire planet is now being affected from the impact. They didn’t specify millions being “right on impact“ or as a whole either. How much headcanon is needed?

 

[Reiner04]

Why not? We can see the curvature. It’s pretty clear. Also, I do hope you know I was being sarcastic there.

If sarcastic then I don't know which part that sarcasm was from but either way, being able to see curvature from outer space is not enough, not when we don't know the height.

Consistent? There is basis for consistency concerning the satellite being country-sized. The consistent size of the satellite shown on-screen is easily skewed more to my premise, rather than yours.

I still believe not being able to bypass even atmosphere and be around 100 meters should be the size that can kill millions tbh, but maybe? I hope a 100 meters dangerous satellite not fall on earth and kill us. If I'm wrong that is.

What you feel doesn’t really matter. A supposed country-sized satellite falling only to London makes zero sense, as it’d impact and cover like 90% of England as a whole. The plumber‘s helpers wouldn’t have been able to ascertain the trajectory point exactly to a city if the ship would’ve covered not only the city, but the whole country it resided in. Dude, just think about it logically. The ship being 400km above the edge of the atmosphere (karman line) is supported both visually and via numbers given in-episode

My feelings are still saying that 100 meters satellite is not enough to kill millions but yeah, how I feel is not important so might can as per how u feel.

Also the Belgium sized satellite is not really a asteroid or smth, it just several metal, steel joints and bolts, having 80% hollowness, so it is indeed dividing into several parts and we saw it dividing and burning too as it was entering atmosphere/leaving trajectory/crash/whatever. So it's trajectory was in London but impact can be far beyond, I hope you know trajectory is concluded on the basis of center of mass movement not whole ship size? So it doesn't matter if it's trajectory was London. Or it'll hit London as per trajectory, impact can be severed. Severed to kill millions that is.

Again, I said the way you quantified it using KE is inapplicable. The way it moved down would be towards to the Earth…yknow, the direction gravity pulls? The core malfunctioning and all, means it was not in a stable orbit. The way you calculated it is wrong.

It was static before humungausaur smashed → it moved right after he smashed. Seems like it went from stable to unstable in that particular moment tbh.

Lol, so 95% of the ship would conveniently break apart, just so that your independent view of it being country-sized stands? If the ship was breaking into dozens of city-sized pieces, more than London would be affected. So your assertion still doesn’t work. You’re misconstruing the narrative they gave, pretending the entire planet is now being affected from the impact. They didn’t specify millions being “right on impact“ or as a whole either. How much headcanon is needed?

If a explosion is stated to kill millions of ppls, we assume that it happened right at the impact, not over time and calc it. If it has been headcanon since always? Hmmm.

As i said, it, either affect London or more is not my point. I just said that it's breaking down and burning as reached the atmosphere. And that it's joints won't survive the atmosphere considering they aren't joint naturally. It's trajectory is London yeah and will eventually kill millions. I'd suppose how far into millions or might affect planets atmosphere and all in long run? May depends on size or total impact it'll cause. I won't say as I'm not sure how far it'll break or whatever it'll survive I fall but yeah, consequences of it will be great for sure.

 

[Reiner04]

(And there is the issue of perspective, with the view not being such that satellite and earth center are in a straight line of the POV)

so we don't calculate or apply angalize formula or planet curvature this way unless the center of objects perspectives are along the straight line?
My apologies if that's the case to waste members times. But is there any info regarding it on our pages where I can get what or how that works? So to avoid such mistakes in future. Honestly wasn't aware of it or encountered a reference for such things.

 

[Reiner04]

Well sorry, but it’s because the calc is pure nonsense.

So yeah, the CE was right to disregard this. You probably should do.

Also, this thread I created wasn't really for to discuss who's wrong or whatever, I'd feeling already that I might be doing smth wrong but my basis was never that "I don't think this should be size or whatever" but "To know What I'm doing wrong as in maths or some form of standard or concept I missed", whether the calc is outlier, inconsistent, gag or anything can be known later on or before discussed in crt which will be eventually created. That's the reason I posted it in calc group thread not QnA. So as to I don't stay lacking. So I'd like to avoid any discussion on if size is consistent or calc size should be disregarded or not based on inconsistency, so I can know what size it is in the first place or if can be calc'd at all or not.

 

[DontTalkDT]

so we don't calculate or apply angalize formula or planet curvature this way unless the center of objects perspectives are along the straight line?
My apologies if that's the case to waste members times. But is there any info regarding it on our pages where I can get what or how that works? So to avoid such mistakes in future. Honestly wasn't aware of it or encountered a reference for such things.

It's a problem with how you put the measured values together. Like, if you use Earth, the satellite and the point of view as corners you get a triangle, not a straight line.
Therefore the distance between POV and Earth minus the distance between Earth and satelite is not equal to the distance between POV and sattelite. You would have two sides of a triangle and search for the third one.

I'm not a calc guy so not sure, all I did was just putting values in formulas shown but can I take the above image into consideration then? It shows clear height btw satellite and earth and it's size in comparison.

The problem is that the stallite in this image can be much closer to the POV than Earth is. That makes scaling of that nature not work.

 

[Reiner04]

It's a problem with how you put the measured values together. Like, if you use Earth, the satellite and the point of view as corners you get a triangle, not a straight line.
Therefore the distance between POV and Earth minus the distance between Earth and satelite is not equal to the distance between POV and sattelite. You would have two sides of a triangle and search for the third one.

Uh I see, I think I got that now. Unrelated to calc blog, I was wondering if, let's say if earth center and pov are in straight line. I've seen it in several calc blogs that we take distance from earth to POV as distance btw it's surface and POV, but if i place 2 dimensional disc of same size as earth at same distance from pov, wouldn't result be same? But earth is a sphere so shouldn't it's surface to POV distance be (POV to earth - radius)?

 

[DontTalkDT]

It wouldn't be radius, but instead be an extra distance corresponding to the distance between the surface and the circle traced out by the horizon.
But aside from that, yes, which is why this section has the guidelines it has.