Stand=Universal energy system

[LegendariumOfLies]

ABSOLUTE CINEMA

 

[Random-Helper323]

The characters dying when their Stand gets destroyed seems likely to be the result of damage inflicted on the Stand also being inflicted on the user. Hence why Dio survived the destruction of his via his regeneration.

It also can't be all exactly the same power given that vampires can't use Hamon but can have Stands.

 

[Chariot190]

The characters dying when their Stand gets destroyed seems likely to be the result of damage inflicted on the Stand also being inflicted on the user.

It very much is, the rule for Stands dying is often packaged with that, such as
スタンドが傷つけば, その本体も同じダメージを負う
スタンド使いが死ねばスタンドは消滅し,スタンドが消滅すればスタンド使いも死ぬ
If a Stand is injured, its user’s body also takes the same damage.
If the Stand user dies, the Stand vanishes. If the Stand vanishes, the Stand user also dies.

Or even lines like "Since the person and the Stand are one and the same, if the Stand is hurt, the person will obtain the same injury." Like yeah obviously if they're one and the same, one dying kills the other.

Hence why Dio survived the destruction of his via his regeneration.

well actually pretty sure dio's body survived, his soul was almost certainly dead

It also can't be all exactly the same power given that vampires can't use Hamon but can have Stands.

Dio can literally use Hermit Purple too, the Stand one gets for mastering Hamon. He just doesn't imbue it with Hamon, because he can't. Much the same way imbuing Tusk with spin, doesn't make Tusk the concept of spin itself.

 

[StekFence]

A max power Lovers will never be as strong as even a dying Crazy Diamond who had all his limbs chopped off who's at max distance.

Your right but damn

 

[StekFence]

second is that ta4 can make rotational energy channel through valentine's body to damage him, if ta4 can make R.E channel through other peoples bodies, it is logical that he can within his own bodyhere

Well yes I suppose he could imbue himself with the thing that will twist him to death on a cellular level. Having a death wish isn’t proof of UES tho.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It very much is, the rule for Stands dying is often packaged with that, such as
スタンドが傷つけば, その本体も同じダメージを負う
スタンド使いが死ねばスタンドは消滅し,スタンドが消滅すればスタンド使いも死ぬ
If a Stand is injured, its user’s body also takes the same damage.
If the Stand user dies, the Stand vanishes. If the Stand vanishes, the Stand user also dies.

Or even lines like "Since the person and the Stand are one and the same, if the Stand is hurt, the person will obtain the same injury." Like yeah obviously if they're one and the same, one dying kills the other.

well actually pretty sure dio's body survived, his soul was almost certainly dead

All the same, it's not exactly like a UES so much. Combine it with the fact Stand power is too varied to be treated as linear in any fashion, and it's hard to view it the same way as Ki in Dragon Ball.

Dio can literally use Hermit Purple too, the Stand one gets for mastering Hamon. He just doesn't imbue it with Hamon, because he can't. Much the same way imbuing Tusk with spin, doesn't make Tusk the concept of spin itself.

It's a Stand though, still no Hamon. The Stand is clearly shown to embody the person in many ways. Kakyoin's is all about range because he keeps away from people, Josuke's heals because he hates to see people hurt, the cook guy's makes great food because he's a cook, the little freak guy's collects coins because he's a scavenger, Jotaro's is all about up close combat because... Jotaro.

Stands vary too much in stats (range, speed, power) to be treated as a universal power level type system, and meanwhile they don't scale to their user's physicals. Even the fact wielders die if the Stand is destroyed functions differently from a UES.

 

[Fugo2022]

But 1 If the user loses his stand and dies with what proves the ues Everything in accordance Then the quantification of energy is proven and I do not know that it is related to that statistics eat up The concept of the ues

 

[Random-Helper323]

But 1 If the user loses his stand and dies with what proves the ues Everything in accordance Then the quantification of energy is proven and I do not know that it is related to that statistics eat up The concept of the ues

The UES functions in such a way that being without the energy does something to them. In the case of the Stand, the damage inflicted on the Stand is also inflicted on the user, and that's why they die from it; it's literally no different from damaging them directly.

 

[Fugo2022]

The UES functions in such a way that being without the energy does something to them. In the case of the Stand, the damage inflicted on the Stand is also inflicted on the user, and that's why they die from it; it's literally no different from damaging them directly.

It's not that the stand was hit but the energy has been exhausted so what you're saying is really wrong

 

[Fugo2022]

Why did you quote the UES page as if that changes a single thing I said or helps support your point?

What are you even talking about?
He almost died when Diego made the IR HIT his own body? Johnny himself literally says he's screwed and is only saved because Steven Steel shows up and enables Johnny to hit himself with another IR in the opposite direction to cancel it, but all the same, Johnny having IR in his body literally almost killed him, was going to kill him without external aid, and made him lose the whole race.

But uh, yeah sure ok, show you it right?


Please do not make me send basic plot points, this isn't the type of thing you just forget or misremember.

Is this your argument? Really? "No bro you just didn't read it right"?

This isn't good enough, in that same vain I can say the same to you, you simply didn't read it right, ergo you don't have an argument or point to make.
Regardless, you're conflating the mastering of a concept enabling one to develop a Stand, with that concept itself becoming a Stand, they're not the same thing. In much the same way Pearl Jam isn't literally cooking, Dragon's Dream isn't literally Feng Shui, Hermit Purple isn't literally Hamon, and more, a Stand that utilizes Spin and is the end result of its mastery, isn't the same as that very concept itself literally being a Stand.

Jesus that's a bad translation, you didn't even like... Could you at least edit the MT or some shit first so it's actually readable in the language you're trying to argue it? Well not that it's needed, you're obviously trying to quote JoJoveller, Ball Breaker's page in particular. In which case, it's just saying, much like many, many other cases, that Gyro's mastery of the art that is Spin, eventually let him develop a Stand ability, no different from Joseph or Tonio.

That second line is too. I'm going to give you benefit of the doubt here and assume you're just misreading it due to the faulty translation, but it means that in a literal combative sense, as in "Gyro's ability to use Spin is an ability on par with Stands",
しかし研鑽を重ねた技術について, スタンド能力に近づくことは可能であった.
However, with techniques honed through sustained training, it was possible to approach the realm of Stand abilities.
第1~2部に登場した波紋法や第7部の鉄球技術がそれに限りなく近い技術であり, 使い手たちは超常的な存在に対してそれを武器に立ち向かっていた.
The Ripple method from Parts 1-2 and the Steel Ball technique from Part 7 are techniques that get virtually as close as possible to that, and their users stood up to supernatural beings using them as weapons.

it's actually, ironically, differentiating Spin from Stands, they're two very different things, yet despite being different, they're comparable in terms of "yeah they're supernatural powers", and with Spin, Gyro can fight Stand Users. This isn't even just a guide quote either, they explain this in Part 7 itself, saying Gyro's steel balls, while not a Stand ability inherently, is its own superhuman power that is comparable to the concept of a Stand, putting him on nigh-equal footing.

End up talking more below, you're conflating the horse energy with the infinite energy, and moreover conflating that with the golden scale which in itself not anything.

Not how this works. You need to prove he can channel it into his own body to amplify physical strength by uh, literal infinity. This isn't the type of thing you just assume because he can use that energy to omega kill other people. The worst part is, even if we went your conjecture route, that wouldn't grant him a infinite stat amp, it'd just mean he can imbue himself with it which uh, yuh huh, or at worst, that he can also kill himself with it, which, funnily enough...

A throwing technique isn't "yo btw everything ever has infinite energy lol", I legitimately shouldn't have to explain this to you.

And you're absolutely factually incorrect on this front, at this point you're not even arguing Act 4 has infinite power, you're arguing Act 2 has infinite power. Which, it doesn't? It's just a few times (stated) stronger than Act 1, which is most certainly not Uni+, hell you're lucky if it's even past 9-B. Characters like Diego can tank it, steel balls can tank it, it's actually super weak, and needless to say super weak Stand that's very much finite x idk 3 ig going by wiki standards =/= Infinity.

Not really divisible like that.

Not how this works. You need to prove Act 4 can channel that energy to magnify its physical stats proportionally. The fact it can be used on others has absolutely no bearing on your claim, they're not even remotely comparable, it'd be like arguing a dude can shoot lightning and fry someone, so they must be capable of taking that lightning and channeling it through themselves instead to get physical strength on par with a lightning bolt, which, no, not happening.

Furthermore, even if he could, it wouldn't scale to physicals, it'd just mean he can imbue himself with it (which yeah no shit), but that doesn't mean he's boxing that hard, in fact we SEE him box, he's like 8-C or something, he manhandles D4C.



Uh ok? Wow that was hard

I legit can't parse this wtf are you saying?

Literally everything, that's how this works.

I ACTUALLY don't know what you're saying, english evidently isn't your first language. And while usually I can kind of deduce the intent from context but it's way to broken here.
Why are you quoting a part of our rules that say there must be evidence that the power/energy corresponds to a proportional physical amp? Yeah it's true, so you need to actually do that. You haven't you're just making disconnect points that have absolutely nothing to do with actually proving it.

Actually wait I think I figured it out while typing, you're arguing that because Tusk Act 4 got stronger than Act 3, that's the evidence? Jesus christ no dude, Act 4 is stronger than Act 3, because it's a power type Stand now. You're trying to use that as evidence of an INFINITE physical boost? The keyword there is proportional, a 9-A dude jumping up to like 8-C, and then punching this other 9-A+/8-C like twenty times, is not "this 9-A became High 3-A physically".
And of course not, because they never once say what you're trying to frame it as, in fact all they ever say, is that Act 4 is no longer hiding behind Johnny because it's finally battle-ready (implying that Act 1-3 were, well, not battle-ready and moreover weaker than Johnny himself, which doesn't align with your argumentation here given Tusk had been using the golden rotation since Act 2, which you've been arguing is infinite and thus Tusk Act 2 should be high 3-A physically as well).

This is akin saying because Rohan's Stand evolved due to his mastery over manga, it must literally be manga itself, or how Tonio's Stand evolved by getting better at cooking, it must be the abstract concept of cooking, or the dozens of other Stands that grow when someone masters or gets better at a thing.

What's actually said isn't even what you're claiming either, so your comment there isn't even applicable, if anything I should be saying the same to you but as it stands.

This is extremely difficult to understand.

It contradicts your very claim. You've mentioned multiple times that because it evolved via golden rotation, and that rotation is infinite, that it must scale to its physical stats infinitely.
Yet, Tusk Act 2, and moreover 3, both use the very rotation you're trying to argue is infinite that is based in nature, as part of your premise.
Despite this fact, Tusk Act 2 and 3 are both physically weaker than Johnny, and can not actually partake in combat themselves. This alone throws your entire argument out the window, what you claim to be a thing is simply not true, but it goes even further. Act 3, something you claimed got a bunch stronger, didn't get any stronger at all from what we know, instead its ability expanded, and that's despite gaining a power symbolic of infinity that spirals down forever, infinitely, to even the gaps between dimensions.

Which also means that your claim "it evolved because of rotation so it scales to the rotation", isn't true either as we have explicit examples, from the SAME character mind you, where it evolving due to rotation (which is a gross simplification as it is), does not effect its physicality in the slightest.
I'm just going to guess what you're trying to argue because goddamn.

And yet because Act 4 is now physically strong, for reasons completely unrelated to what you're trying to argue, and thus its punches scale to infinity? Nah chat say sike.

This is actually as if you argued Star Platinum learned how to effect time, and because he got stronger physically and could kill TW, he must scale to time now and be like low 2-C.

Headcanon and conjecture is not evidence, frame it however you want, but most of what you're saying just factually isn't the case, and the wee bit that's open to interpretation, is exactly that, interpretation, not actual solid evidence, of which none of the "wee bits" would even lead to the end result you're trying to propose anyhow.

They never actually say that, or show it actually, he manifested the IR before summoning his Stand thinking on it. You're extrapolating.

Yep it did indeed evolve into Act 4, wow.

Why are you just saying words now

Yes, it does, but not because the IR was buffing him, not because he was buffed by spin, he is simply a combat ready Stand now, in the same way Echoes Act 1 is weaker than a human, but Echoes Act 3 is vastly superhuman and a combative type Stand (even changing classification from a long-range Stand, to a short-distance type when elevating Acts, much like Tusk becomes a power-type). Act 4 had evolved past cowardice and is now cool or something ig, it be like that.

No, stop that shit, ignoring your premise here isn't even true, you're just guessing "how" it evolved and saying "it channeled this energy through his stand", which is not only never stated, but had never been the case.
In every single act evolution up to this, it was either due to a breakthrough in his own spiritual growth (Which would coincide with this statement referring to how Act's grow actually "精神が成長することで, その像も大きく変化を遂げるという, 稀有なパターンもある./There are also rare cases where its appearance undergoes significant changes as the spirit grows."), or he spun his nails themselves under the new style of rotation, as seen with Act 2 and uh, Act 4, like idk why you're guessing here.

But even if it was true, which, it is not, its physical increase isn't even remotely infinite, so how in the world are you concluding all these assumptions somehow lead to the very blatantly not true conclusion in the first place?

Again, no, Tusk Act 4's increase in physicality, is not due to the spin itself, and he retains it even while the spin isn't in action simply because his Stand body is just now combat ready.
Even if it were, it does not make it a UES.
And even then you would need to prove said buff is infinite in scale, when it's blatantly not. The fact you can't even get past the first step because the premise of your claim isn't even true, makes this a non-argument.

I have no idea what you just said again so I'm just gonna guess and assume you missed the point completely while simultaneously repeating exactly what I just said and thus accidentally agreed with my point.

Chat I don't know wtf he's trying to say...

Yuh huh ok.

You yourself quite literally posted one saying it's because he mastered it, what we are we doing here, have we lost the plot that badly

I don't care, if you aren't 100% sure of what it says, you ask someone who you know could tell you. I shouldn't have to be forced to argue faulty points simply because from the looks it, you machine translated it, and then did it again.

This is actually extremely basic universal Stand shit on par with them not being visible or untouchable.
技術からスタンドへ
生まれついての能力者や「弓と矢」などに才能を引き出されたのではなく, 技術を磨くうちに適性が無意識に芽生えてスタンド使いとなった者たちもいる.
Apart from those born with abilities or awakened by tools like the Bow and Arrow, there are also people who, while honing their techniques, unconsciously developed the aptitude and became Stand users.
彼らのスタンド能力は一風変わった効果を持ち, また, 職業などに根ざしたものの場合も多い.
Their Stand abilities often have unusual effects and are frequently rooted in their occupations and the like.
第5部に登場した彫刻家のスコリッピ. 芸術家としての資質が, 無意識のうちにスタンドを発動.
Scolippi, a sculptor who appears in Part 5. His qualities as an artist unconsciously triggered his Stand.

The absolute hilarious part of this, is those lines are part of a larger yap explaining about how GYRO SPECIFICALLY falls under this.

Hey so, given you obviously know this scan exists as you're using it in your own argument, here's the full yap.

スタンド能力は選ばれた者だけが持つ強力な才能であり, ごく普通の人間に対抗する術はない.
Stand abilities are a powerful talent possessed only by the chosen, and ordinary people have no means to oppose them.
しかし研鑽を重ねた技術について, スタンド能力に近づくことは可能であった.
However, with techniques honed through sustained training, it was possible to approach the realm of Stand abilities.
第1~2部に登場した波紋法や第7部の鉄球技術がそれに限りなく近い技術であり, 使い手たちは超常的な存在に対してそれを武器に立ち向かっていた.
The Ripple method from Parts 1-2 and the Steel Ball technique from Part 7 are techniques that get virtually as close as possible to that, and their users stood up to supernatural beings using them as weapons.
特殊な呼吸法により, 吸血鬼に対抗するためのエネルギーを生み出す波紋法.
The Ripple method, which, through a special breathing technique, produces energy to oppose vampires.
積み重ねられた"経験"こそが"技術"の極みである. ツェペリ一族の築き上げた技術はスタンド能力に匹敵した.
Accumulated "experience" is the very pinnacle of "technique." The techniques built by the Zeppeli family rivaled Stand abilities.
無敵とも思える回避性能を持つD4Cに対して, ジャイロは"技術"で失鋒させることに成功している.
Against D4C, whose evasive ability could be called invincible, Gyro succeeded—by "technique"—in blunting its edge.
生まれついての能力者や"弓と矢"などに才能を引き出されたのではなく, 技術を磨くうちに適性が無意識に芽生えてスタンド使いとなった者たちもいる.
Apart from those born with abilities or awakened by tools like the Bow and Arrow, there are also people who, while honing their techniques, unconsciously developed the aptitude and became Stand users.
彼らのスタンド能力は一風変わった効果を持ち, また, 職業などに根ざしたものの場合も多い.
Their Stand abilities often have unusual effects and are frequently rooted in their occupations and the like.
第5部に登場した彫刻家のスコリッピ. 芸術家としての資質が, 無意識のうちにスタンドを発動.
Scolippi, a sculptor who appears in Part 5. His qualities as an artist unconsciously triggered his Stand.

So, ya know, as I was SAYING.
Spin isn't a Stand, your constant claiming "oh it says it's a Stand and is comparable", it's literally just saying functionally it and Hamon are supernatural powers as close as possible to Stands and let them fight supernatural forces too.
It very clearly places Spin as a concept as something different from Stands.
And moreover explains very clearly that mastering one's craft leads to gaining a Stand ability, often rooted in said thing. Gyro, again, is hard confirmed to be one of these cases. But it applies to ANYTHING, other hard examples include Scolippi with artistry, Aya with uh idk what you call that shit but the beauty stuff, Tonio with cooking, Kendo with Feng Shui, and I used Rohan as an example due to the retcon from Rohan at the louvre, but he still applies even pre-retcon as his Stand evolves further as he grows as a mangaka regardless.
And mind you, this isn't news, this isn't subtle, they say this in the manga itself at points, and there's other statements repeating it too, and in some cases, going even deeper in detail stating it, but this one is just oddly topical because it undermines your entire claim by throwing Gyro in there too.

As above, why did you leave out the following lines that clarify it further and go "there are also people who, while honing their techniques, unconsciously developed the aptitude and became Stand users. Their Stand abilities often have unusual effects and are frequently rooted in their occupations and the like.".
You're ignoring the fact that anyone, ever, upon mastering a thing, can gain a Stand, but that Stand isn't literally the thing in question, they simply developed a Stand that makes use of their mastered talents. In the same way Cinderella or Pearl Jam, make use of said talents, but aren't the literal embodiment of uh i forget and cooking, but rather act as a conduit to make use of said talents, Tusk itself is not the spin, (it's a corpse part guardian), Gyro's Stand using Spin doesn't mean it punches that hard (in fact, the actual Stand body itself only has a B in power), and a whole slew of other things. You're just kind of cherry picking lines, framing them disingenuously, or just saying stuff that simply isn't true, and then combining all three to conclude a point.

Because it's the exact same concept. Why you're being dishonest I don't know given you're evidently aware of the source of your own statements, that also undermine you like one sentence later.

Again, no idea what you're saying but the fact you replied to that I'm going to assume you're disagreeing.

Tough luck, you need to prove it's canon, explicitly. Genesis can't be canon, it simply doesn't fit, and there's not actually any statements anywhere placing it as canon, and nor has it been in any of the recent timelines like from JoJo magazine. Technically speaking it hasn't even been mentioned in a single piece of media in about 25 years even off hand just to say it came out.

The worst part is, even if it was canon, what you're trying to use from it doesn't support your claim anyway, like yeah Stand energy is a thing, that doesn't mean it's a UES? In fact it's explicitly not, kind of odd you just conveniently opted to ignore the explicit contradictions but shrug.

What? Why in tf is a wall being a physical object mean anything for what a Stand is? Stands aren't physical, they're not corporal, they're intangible spiritual entities that can't be interacted with by the world at large yet can do so in return, it's a one-way street.
But all the same, they're very much not physical, explicitly, they lack a physical form. Goddamn maybe I should free the Stand blog at this rate and slap it on the profiles...

What the ACTUAL **** is this dude saying


Yeah and if you rip someone's soul out they'd die too?
Or drained them of all their blood.
Or their life force.
And oh hey, Stands count as two of those?

This is one of the most basic fallacies known to man. It's the same as saying "rhino's have horns", "narwhals have horns", so "rhino's must be narwhals", due to sharing a single facet.

And debunk? Dude you haven't actually proven anything, and if you DID prove it, why the hell would I debunk it? If it's right, it's right, but unfortunately you haven't actually done that, you're making disconnected claims, and framing things to means stuff they absolutely don't. Like what's next, Stands can't be touched so they must have NEP too?

And not to mention "loss of strength" doesn't work here, because they straight up die, and they explain in detail why they die mind you. You just conveniently ignored that part once again. They die because if the Stand dies, the user dies, and vice versa, because it's the manifestation of their soul, they're one in the same, it's also why damage reflects too. No idea how you're framing the most basic rules of Stands as being a UES.

I didn't think this needed to be said, but I'm calling your "proofs", wrong, taken out of context, some cases even suspiciously removed some lines preceding or following it, somehow completely misinterpreted, or don't even say what you claim they do in the first place, that is to say, very much not sufficient.

Oh boy, you do not want to go down the path, because unlike the obscure part 3 novel, I very much can, and have, the entirety of Part 7 raw on hand.

I straight up gave you time discrepancy examples, the hell you mean I didn't?
The Scribe fight for example literally can't happen, in the novel it takes place the day they arrive in Cairo and lasts till night almost, yet in the manga we know they didn't do anything.
In the Absalom fight, that takes place over multiple days, with Jotaro and Pol even escaping to a village, staying the night, and Jotaro having this moment where he looks at a star over a hill and likens it to the little prince, and then the runback takes so long that by the time they're done, it's night again and he looks back and goes "well damn shit, I see that type of star everywhere, I thought I found the actual place from the story yare yare daze..."

We know this can't be the case, as it if this actually happened, it would push Part 3's ending back by like 2-3 days at least, (actually I checked, they were travelling for 3 days before the start of the fight, so it'd be 5-6 days) yet, as just one of literally dozen examples,

The date of DIO's death has stayed static since before AND after the novel came out, staying the exact same, even though if the novel were to be canon, it'd have been pushed back almost a week to account for the extra days and dead time the novel claims allegedly occurred.

Did this dude legit ong just say blatant contradictions and the fact the novel can't fit is a "shortcut".

Well it doesn't matter, I just gave you DIO's death date. So hell, you get both even, lucky you.

No it isn't? A Stand can have low energy, and still be extremely asinine in power?

For example, a nearly dead Star Platinum was able to cripple a almost fresh Killer Queen, with Kira (probably literally) pissing himself as it blitzed him and shattered his bones.
Killer Queen has more energy here, but Star Platinum is just fundamentally stronger as part of its rules and kit.

Same goes for the reverse, A max power Lovers will never be as strong as even a dying Crazy Diamond who had all his limbs chopped off who's at max distance.

It's proportional because that's just how Stands work, and only sometimes, and only in specific traits, and it varies between each Stand, to the degree it happens, and some ignore it entirely, and also-

Idk what to say here, recent statements have it not able to be placed, and its events contradict how the manga presents the events of Part 3, as well as following material.

Worst part is "bonus" doesn't even remotely mean canon.

I would PRAY it had the same story, otherwise it wouldn't even be a JoJo novel?
And no offense, but we clearly have two drastically definitions of what "proof" means.

You just unintentionally pointed out a contradiction to your claim of its canonicity. The actual manga didn't have a time skip, and every source detailing Part 3 afterward, doesn't add one there either to compensate for the novel.

Because it's wrong? What sort of asinine question is that?

Anybody can argue anything, doesn't mean it's right.

Yes, unfortunately that doesn't mean everything you've been arguing here.

Yes, also spiritual growth, but that's beside the point.

Dude he's explaining the throwing technique and the transfer of the HORSE's energy, not the infinite rotation itself.

The fact you're confusing a basic throwing form explanation with the Infinite Rotation isn't something I'm even able to argue, you're just mixing up basic facts here.

That isn't even true? Why are you conflating Act 2 with Act 4 now?
Also again, that's entirely form still, I'm not repeating the Act 2 arguments, see above.

Association fallacy, false equivalence, like fifty other fallacies, not sure why you think proving a similarity is proof of proving the whole.

Yes, this doesn't prove a UES, it's a basic concept that applies to Stands as a whole. It doesn't support or prove your end claim.

Ignoring the fact your Op literally tried to use Act 3 as proof, and ignoring the fact that you've now conceded it isn't the case with Act 3, despite the further mastering of spin, shooting down your whole premise of the spin directly effecting its physicality, that isn't even true for the previous acts either, none of them matched the spin output physically, kind of why they hid behind Johnny.

Problem there lil buddy, you need to prove that still. Just saying it is and then saying because it is, this other thing must be true, isn't how this works.

Spin isn't a physical energy system, never has, never will be, they establish very clearly even.
Spin technically isn't even a UES, it'd be like calling kinetic energy a UES, it's just a force of nature.

You just admitted that Tusk Act 3 doesn't scale equally with its physical stats, despite having golden rotation spin, so do tell why you're immediately backpedaling?

And again, you haven't even given a single piece of evidence for the "enhances up physical stats" part, they never say this, they don't even show it, in fact they show a very much not infinite Stand tanking multiple blows from it

This is your High 3-A physical Stand? Because it has the ability to make use of this other thing? You're legitimately doing the equivalent of trying to argue BTD or Time Skip scales to physicals because "UES".
And funnily enough, they even show Act 4 just chilling without being used as a conduit of the IR

It being a power type Stand, and not being top 5 weakest Stands now, doesn't mean its punches are being amped by the IR, let alone proportionately to High 3-A.

Dude, it's talking about the horse's energy, not the infinite energy, which, they need, to create said infinite energy in the first place. They're two completely different things, you're conflating them.

Bro you can learn that shit from an Art Class too, you know the golden ratio is an actual thing right?

Ok so you DO know what the golden ratio is. No, it isn't representation of infinite energy that exists in everything in the universe.
It's literally just a scale, and because said scale can spiral infinitely throwing it in that ratio heightens the spin's power. You're acting like everything just has infinite energy because proportions?


This isn't complex, or even subtle, he straight up explains what it is. It is simply a scale, most things in nature are in the form of this scale, and simply using it as a reference as in a form/scale that what they're spinning is spun on, does heighten its power. This doesn't mean, obviously, that everything ever contains infinite whatever, this is literally an actual thing he's talking about that just applies to his technique specifically because it involves spirals.

Already went through this. You're conflating the horse with the infinite rotation, you're just guessing on the rest, and you're even ignoring how Johnny actually touching the infinite rotation is fatal for him.

Someone decode this for me.

The IR wasn't channeled through TA3's body, but rather the nail, same with TA2.
It evolving was due to both spiritual growth and maturity (this is literally the plot of Part 7, the opening AND ending lines even) along with mastering Spin.
It has stronger stats, because it's just a stronger Stand, it's actually that simple.
Tusk Act's 4 physicality is the same whether it's using the infinite rotation or not, we actually see this, twice.
Furthermore your conclusion as to why this must even be a thing to begin with is actively contradicted as Tusk 2 and 3 don't gain physical boosts, and Stands growing from mastery is literally part of the Stand rules it's not even unique.

What? He literally flatout died, they had to freeze his body so it didn't decay.
There was no "neither dead nor alive" it was "holy shit he just had his soul ripped out" and then he died, and they had to freeze the corpse till they could put his soul back in.

Why this even matters here is beyond me though.

Uh, hell yeah dude? Unless you want to argue pathetic feats that aren't even 9-B are actually High 3-A because they take more Stand energy to do than Kira blowing up time itself on a universal scale?

Yes, stamina do be a thing.

Uhm, ok?
スタンドの射程距離とパワーは反比例する（ただしスタンドのもたらす「効果」には限りはない）
A Stand’s range and power are inversely proportional (however, there is no limit to the "effects" a Stand brings about).
スタンドの射程距離とパワーは反比例する（ただしスタンドがもたらす「効果」はこの限りではない）
A Stand’s range and power are inversely proportional (however, the "effects" a Stand brings about are not bound by this rule).

Like why act like you didn't? If I called you out on it, I'm obviously gonna have the lines removed on hand

It means your entire argument falls flat because abilities don't follow the range/power thing half the time. Which is what Stand energy uses in basically every case, and given you just tried to use the range rule as evidence to that very thing, that's a huge flaw in your argument.
(And also applies to Spin FYI, that's an ability, not the Stand's physical form).
Lad, there isn't a single thing I've said that I can't straight up prove, this shit isn't exactly subtle or hidden, I'm moreso wondering why you think you can pull a fast one tbh.

Also lil odd you just ignored the previous points and contradictions entirely and skipped over those but it is what it is ig.

Am I going to repeat myself?

 

[Kaydee1648]

Am I going to repeat myself?

Please repeat yourself in one post

 

[Fugo2022]

Please repeat yourself in one post

For you?

 

[Kaydee1648]

no? if you’re gonna repeat yourself/respond, just do that in a single post this time

 

[Fugo2022]

no? if you’re gonna repeat yourself/respond, just do that in a single post this time

Oh, you were talking about that.

 

[Fugo2022]

I use deepl and if the word transcandancer of derange it is that Gyro as you must know his stand crosses the dimensions And it is never said that If you master something you have a stand it is just inspired by it is transmitted either via the Arrow or the family but if we take Heavens the door it is Via the Arrow it has nothing of the mastered just the Arrow but Gyro he has mastered the rotational energy to go to Stand it is totally different, so you bring no argument and say the words of the Arrow Things without evidence

Shall we resume the debate, or would you like an administrator to review it?