Staff Only: About Locking Tier 2 profiles

[Ultima_Reality]

From the Advice to the staff of the VS Battles wiki page:

Due to their controversial nature, all tier 2, 1, and 0 pages should be completely locked, so that only administrators and content moderators can edit them, or change their names.

^ This has been a Rule which has been heavily bothering me for a while. While the act of locking Tier 1 and 0 profiles is perfectly understandable, since they are indeed Controversial by nature and involve in-depth knowledge on the upper echelons of the Tiering System, locking away Tier 2 is ridiculous and makes no particular sense

In essence, Tier 2 profiles are nowhere near as controversial or complicated as Tier 1 and 0 profiles. While Tier 1 and 0 normally require extremely good evidence (Especially the former, since you basically needs to distinguish between parallel universes, higher layers, planes of reality and increasing layers of infinity in it), and are frequently misunderstood by new users, Tier 2 is extremely easy to understand once you read it's description ― It is basically destroying a Timeline / Space-Time Continuum to destroying Infinite Universes, it is overall extremely simple and most characters that are ranked as such are well-justified. Such as people capable of destroying timelines, or embodiments of Time and Space, or people such as Morax or Loki who explicitly create Space-Time Continuums and Universes, respectively

Of course, I am not saying all Tier 2 profiles should be unlocked, we should keep actual controversial characters locked. People from popular verses who always are wanked to high heavens and have their pages vandalized, such as Goku. But we can't just go around locking profiles for characters who definitely aren't controversial, while generalizing things because they pertain to a certain Tier. Unless you want to say Helios is a controversial character whose page has to be kept locked so only Administrators and Content Moderators can edit it

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Agreed

 

[Antvasima]

The problem is that the higher the tier the higher the likelihood that people will become tempted to mess with the statistics.

Our current standards have served us very well, and avoided widespread vandalism, so I would greatly appreciate if we could keep them, as I am very overworked enough as it is from monitoring and correcting edits in this wiki.

 

[ALRF]

Me too

I don't see why we have to unlock these pages when they are easier to understand than our Tier 1 pages.

Moreover some characters are really not controversial in those tiers. So yeah, while some pages do need to be locked due to their popularity and thus avoid them being vandalized, i don't see why we should every single page out there when they aren't that popular compared to others.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree 100% with Ultima. There is no need to automatically every Tier 2 profile. It's needlessly fearful and paranoid and it serves no real purpose.

 

[Reppuzan]

I disagree with the proposal.

People have a LOT of trouble distinguishing between 3-A, High 3-A, and Low 2-C. More than once have I had to revert edits for feats that people thought were Tier 2 but weren't (i.e. destroying a pocket dimension) and many people would run rampant on the Tier 2 profiles if left to chance.

I think our current standards are fine.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I honestly agree with Ultima here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I genuinely disagree, I find it far too paranoid and based on no reason. The few profiles that are controversial can be locked, but no need to lock everything.

Furthermore, these people do these types of edits anyway.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I also agree with Ultima.

 

[Antvasima]

It isn't paranoid. It is a conclusion based on experience as the person who has done the by far most edit-monitoring in this wiki, and I do not want to get a burnout from a significantly increased workload in that regard.

With respect, I would greatly appreciate if our staff would show some basic consideration for me and other people who actually consistently handle this work, and not remove our restrictions in this area.

That said, I am very tired, distracted, and have a hard time writing on my new too large tablet, so I am not in a good position for a long argument about this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ant, I am sorry but this isn't about you. This is about the wiki as a whole. The people who would vandalize profiles do so anyway, restrictions or not. You still have people making profiles ranked as 2-A for no reason. And guess what? They get deleted in minutes.

 

[Antvasima]

Or to put it another way, I am the one who actually has to take the main brunt from these types of hasty decisions, and I consider it very inconsiderate to just expect me to constantly work more and more and more to keep the wiki afloat.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew

It is about both me and the wiki. If we remove our restrictions to the higher-tier pages we essentially open a candy store for compulsive stress eaters with diabetes. We create a massive temptation that invites for bad edits that are not intentional vandalism, but take just as much work to clean up from.

It is easy enough to use my mass-locking/unlocking script to temporarily make such pages accessible on request when necessary, and I am planning to instruct the admins in how to use it when I find the time.

I am definitely not willing to work an extra 10-20 hours a week on top of what I already do.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ant, you don't need to work more. Seriously. Can you please have an argument beyond "But it will be hard to me".

It is unhealthy for you to just keep working more and more.

 

[Antvasima]

What the heck do you want me to say? That I endorse a decision that is very ill-considered, invites lots of bad wanking or downplaying edits, and dumps all of the required work on somebody else, in this case mainly myself?

I mean, you have repeatedly publicly exploded on me when I have made a public suggestion without consulting you first, and this one would affect me and anybody else who helps out with edit-monitoring in an extremely negative manner.

Somebody has to handle the resulting workload, and given that the rest of the staff do not use the edit-patrolling script as much as I would prefer, that somebody is mainly going to be me.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ant, seriously. What people want is for you to calm down, to look at things from an objective standpoint, and to not overwork yourself nearly as much.

I'm not exposing or exploding on you, can you stop trying to turn this thread into Drama? People are trying to have a sensible discussion here.

You don't need to work even half as much as you work. You often speak as if you are the only Staff in the wiki, and the only thing holding it from collapsing. This is extremely disconnected from how things really are in reality. And the more you exhaust yourself needlessly here, the more I'm concerned for your general well being.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not saying that you exploded on me here, I am saying that compared to that kind of behaviour I am taking this very calmly, despite that it would cause me extreme negative consequences.

It is easy to say that I shouldn't work so much, but when I managed to get Fandom to install an edit-patrolling script that would allow other staff members to handle part of my workload, almost nobody used it, as I have just as many edits to patrol as always, and if you allow this suggestion to pass, you again serve to actively increase my workload for very limited gains. So essentially, it is easy to say that you sympathise, but harder to act upon it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No?

The only person who is making the decision to overwork to the point where you spent the majority of your life editing here is you. Nobody else. You don't need to do it.

 

[Antvasima]

Let's just say that going by how many bad edits that I clean up every single day, the wiki would not function very well at all if I quit with my work, and quickly turn very unreliable and incoherent. If the rest of the staff want to reduce my workload, I would greatly appreciate if you start using the edit-patrolling script.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Ant, you have 41 other staff members here to help you, by no means should you be handling everything on your own. You want help, ask people to do something. You aren't the only one here. You are choosing to work yourself to the bone, nothing is stopping you from taking a day or week off. Nothing is stopping you from taking a break. You are choosing not to. The wiki will not just fall apart overnight if you rest.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you, but I have asked for help, repeatedly, and regrettably I have not noticed a reduction in the edits that I have to check up every day after installing the edit-patrolling script that allows us to split the work.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Edit-Patrolling_Script

 

[Lightbuster30]

I know it's staff only, but whst about tier High 2-A? Isn't that more complex than infinite universes, like tier 1-0?

 

[Promestein]

I don't know how I feel about this, and though I'm inclined to agree with Reppuzan, it wouldn't be all that bad if we unlocked most of the Tier 2 pages. That being said, it'd certainly be a lot of menial work.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I make Matt and Dragon's words my own, Ant. You don't need to overexhaust yourself on a wiki about indexing fictional characters and their statistics, and then putting them into imaginary battles with other characters. Honestly, I think this wiki is not good your own health at all, no offense intended, time from time you have been acting with little faith on the Staff members that were agreed to be put into their positions and then act like this whole site is sutained by toothpicks, while you are literally the only thing sustaining it

In fact, I am pretty sure you have left for a few weeks or months to have some rest previously. And as far as I know literally nothing happened whatsoever, other than a single occasion where uncontrollable schism happened, but this wasn't really something anyone could control

 

[Antvasima]

Actually, I have never taken a break from this wiki for a few years, and I do not think that I am the only thing sustaining it, as I am grateful for all help I receive, but my edit-monitoring and organisation work are certainly crucial.

Regardless, as I mentioned earlier, I think that this suggestion is a bad idea, as it would significantly increase the required edit-monitoring work for very little gain.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

He said a few days, Ant, not years.

 

[Antvasima]

I referred to that I have not taken any days off for the last few years, much less several months.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You.. Did take a few weeks off last year.

 

[Kaltias]

I referred to that I have not taken any days off for the last few years, much less several months.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1096947

 

[SomebodyData]

he was pulled back in because of the entire sera controversy

 

[SomebodyData]

if anything you guys just kinda proved his point...

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Like I said. This whole controversy was not something that anyone could really control or prevent, we aren't even referring to said schism in particular. Just edits

 

[Kaltias]

The thing that objectively had nothing to do with Ant's presence or absence you mean?

I'm saying that aside from that, absolutely nothing happened, editing wise (which is the topic here). The profiles weren't a mess afterwards.

 

[Antvasima]

I have been on vacation where I have reduced my workload, but I have still been working.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You could reduce your workload permanently. Your mental and physical well being and health would thank you immensely.

 

[SomebodyData]

@kal true, untill he was told what was going on and had to come back.

to be fair, neither does the nitpicking of ant's statement.

@ultima personally, im okay with either opening or locking the tier 2 profiles, but i dont think it is necessarily a rule that has to be changed.

 

[Kaltias]

I have been on vacation where I have reduced my workload, but I have still been working.

That wouldn't work unless someone tried to compensate for that, though.

My point is, the profiles were patrolled, which means that someone else did it, if you reduced your activity (which is completely fine).

Which means that you ca reduce your workload, because people won't simply sit down watching the sky thinking "Eh, Ant will do it anyway"

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew

Probably, but again, my experience with all the edits I have to monitor every day imply that the bad content in the wiki would quickly accumulate.

 

[Antvasima]

@Kaltias

Well, again, if people want to reduce my workload, please start using the patrolling-script. Every little bit helps.

 

[Kepekley23]

I'm like SD. I'm okay with the suggestion itself, but don't think it's something I'd really actively argue for, because things seem fine the way they are. Unlocked or not, normal users would still need input from other people to perform edits, so it's a somewhat redundant change that is unpredictable.

What I came here to say, however, was for people to please calm down and be less harsh with Ant. Try to see things from his perspective, put yourself in his place. No matter how much we all disagree with him being the "only one keeping chaos from breaking into the wiki", him being extremely helpful to the wiki in general is undeniable. Trying to confront him about it won't help anyone here. It will only aggravate the situation. Absolutely nothing useful.

Not only that, but most staff members do not try to check unreliable edits unless they are directly informed about them or if said edits are related to a franchise they like. Ant has continually asked for help and very few people in this wiki actually try to help him. Only the content moderators do so.

Sorry for the bluntness, but sitting on your ass and complaining about Ant being unnecessarily overworked without actually doing anything to help with the workload does not make you any better than him.