Spider-Man Noir (Shattered Dimensions) vs Spider-Man (Raimi Trilogy) [5-0-0]

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This is Base Raimi Spider-Man being used, the fight takes in Raimi's version of New York at night and Speed is Equalized.

Noir : 5

Raimi :

Incon :

 

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[That_moron2]

Bully Maguire takes this. Despite stealth mastery and skill being on Noir’s side, Bully is more familiar with the surrondings and has Spider-Sense without the can’t sense venom thing iirc so he can 100% work around stealth. Noir has more moves but Bully has just as potent Spider-Sense, better acrobatics, and much more experience as Spider-Man as well as higher lifting strength so cqc isn’t necessarily on Noir’s side either. Compound this with Bully’s stamina and Noir is in trouble.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bully Maguire takes this. Despite stealth mastery and skill being on Noir’s side, Bully is more familiar with the surrondings and has Spider-Sense without the can’t sense venom thing iirc so he can 100% work around stealth. Noir has more moves but Bully has just as potent Spider-Sense, better acrobatics, and much more experience as Spider-Man as well as higher lifting strength so cqc isn’t necessarily on Noir’s side either. Compound this with Bully’s stamina and Noir is in trouble.

Experience literally holds no weight against an opponent significantly more skilled than them.

 

[That_moron2]

Experience literally holds no weight against an opponent significantly more skilled than them.

I think it kinda does, since Bully has been fighting for decades longer than Noir even if Noir has better hand to hand showings the gap shouldn't be that large.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I think it kinda does, since Bully has been fighting for decades longer than Noir even if Noir has better hand to hand showings the gap shouldn't be that large.

It's a really massive gap since Raimi Peter hasn't fought any crazy opponents like the fragment amped villains in Shattered Dimensions aside from Sandman and he can't even beat Sandman without exploiting his weaknesses.

 

[That_moron2]

It's a really massive gap since Raimi Peter hasn't fought any crazy opponents like the fragment amped villains in Shattered Dimensions aside from Sandman and he can't even beat Sandman without exploiting his weaknesses.

Raimi still has better acrobatics, and similar spider-sense. Also doesn’t Noir not usually do prolonged hand to hand exchanges?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Raimi still has better acrobatics, and similar spider-sense. Also doesn’t Noir not usually do prolonged hand to hand exchanges?

No, Noir definitely has a better Spider-Sense as his actually shows his opponents health as well as tells him exact moments to dodge and counterattack as well as let him know when his opponent is going to counter as well.

 

[That_moron2]

No, Noir definitely has a better Spider-Sense as his actually shows his opponents health as well as tells him exact moments to dodge and counterattack as well as let him know when his opponent is going to counter as well.

I dunno man, this is pretty crazy. Noir also lacks the self-perception manipulation, although he does have precognition Bully's senses are directly compared to it so it factors out.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I dunno man, this is pretty crazy. Noir also lacks the self-perception manipulation, although he does have precognition Bully's senses are directly compared to it so it factors out.

That shit is not that impressive. Those pumpkin bombs were literally flying in a straight line, making missing them borderline impossible.

 

[Lonkitt]

Bully Maguire takes this. Despite stealth mastery and skill being on Noir’s side, Bully is more familiar with the surrondings and has Spider-Sense without the can’t sense venom thing iirc so he can 100% work around stealth. Noir has more moves but Bully has just as potent Spider-Sense, better acrobatics, and much more experience as Spider-Man as well as higher lifting strength so cqc isn’t necessarily on Noir’s side either. Compound this with Bully’s stamina and Noir is in trouble.

A) Experience doesn’t overtake skill. Experience can contribute to skill, but there are some opponents who are skilled enough to where they defeat opponents with more experience than them. Plus, you have to consider that Raimi Peter’s experience isn’t quite as valuable here. It’s not unless, but he’s not fighting guys like Green Goblin nearly as often as he a regular gangs and criminals

When it comes to Raimi Spider-Man, a mistake I see A LOT OF THE TIME is the belief that Raimi Spider-Man is one of the more skilled Spider-Man just because of experience. The truth is, his experience is not as impressive as a lot of other Spider-Men


B) Raimi Peter’s Spider-Sense is certainly NOT as good as Noir’s. That Pumpkin Bomb feat you linked? I dunno how you think that’s remotely more impressive that the Spider-Sense of a guy who can see through walls, smoke/fog, pitch darkness, has opponents + environmental aspects + structural weak points highlighted, is always alerted of the ideal moment to counter enemies, and can literally see how much health his enemy has left. That’s not even mentioning Noir could fend off enemies successfully while his senses were weakened


C) If you’re saying Noir doesn’t usually go for hand-to-hand, you’re mistaking his preference for stealth as a crutch. In all of his levels, we see him facing crowds of enemies and taking them out with ease. Hell, one time he took out several of Hammerhead’s men while also avoiding gunfire from others positioned further back, AND while having to dodge trains. Noir beat them so badly that the ones with firearms decided to bail. Vulture's scared of Noir to the point of trying to bargain his way out of fighting Spider-Man as well as setting up multiple patrolling gunmen and hostage situations just to avoid an assbeating. So yeah, Noir shouldn't be underestimated just because he's particularly good at stealth. He's got some great hand-to-hand displays


D) You're underselling Noir's acrobatics. He's actually a lot more agile than a lot of people think he'd be


E) You're completely ignoring how Noir's more bizarre attacks are gonna come in handy paired with Noir's better Spider-Senses and skill. Noir's definitely the better martial artist if you actually take the time to see his moveset and combos

 

[That_moron2]

Very simple explanation: I haven't played Spider-Man Shattered Dimensions

A) Experience doesn’t overtake skill. Experience can contribute to skill, but there are some opponents who are skilled enough to where they defeat opponents with more experience than them. Plus, you have to consider that Raimi Peter’s experience isn’t quite as valuable here. It’s not unless, but he’s not fighting guys like Green Goblin nearly as often as he a regular gangs and criminals

When it comes to Raimi Spider-Man, a mistake I see A LOT OF THE TIME is the belief that Raimi Spider-Man is one of the more skilled Spider-Man just because of experience. The truth is, his experience is not as impressive as a lot of other Spider-Men


B) Raimi Peter’s Spider-Sense is certainly NOT as good as Noir’s. That Pumpkin Bomb feat you linked? I dunno how you think that’s remotely more impressive that the Spider-Sense of a guy who can see through walls, smoke/fog, pitch darkness, has opponents + environmental aspects + structural weak points highlighted, is always alerted of the ideal moment to counter enemies, and can literally see how much health his enemy has left. That’s not even mentioning Noir could fend off enemies successfully while his senses were weakened


C) If you’re saying Noir doesn’t usually go for hand-to-hand, you’re mistaking his preference for stealth as a crutch. In all of his levels, we see him facing crowds of enemies and taking them out with ease. Hell, one time he took out several of Hammerhead’s men while also avoiding gunfire from others positioned further back, AND while having to dodge trains. Noir beat them so badly that the ones with firearms decided to bail. Vulture's scared of Noir to the point of trying to bargain his way out of fighting Spider-Man as well as setting up multiple patrolling gunmen and hostage situations just to avoid an assbeating. So yeah, Noir shouldn't be underestimated just because he's particularly good at stealth. He's got some great hand-to-hand displays


D) You're underselling Noir's acrobatics. He's actually a lot more agile than a lot of people think he'd be


E) You're completely ignoring how Noir's more bizarre attacks are gonna come in handy paired with Noir's better Spider-Senses and skill. Noir's definitely the better martial artist if you actually take the time to see his moveset and combos

 

[Lonkitt]

Very simple explination: I haven't played Spider-Man Shattered Dimensions

Dawg, why would you actively make claims that Raimi was superior to Noir in multiple areas without having some sort of knowledge on him? I’m not even asking you to play the game, but you couldn’t at least give the profile a good look?

 

[That_moron2]

Dawg, why would you actively make claims that Raimi was superior to Noir in multiple areas without having some sort of knowledge on him? I’m not even asking you to play the game, but you couldn’t at least give the profile a good look?

I did, just didn't really think about it very much.

 

[Lonkitt]

If you’re not gonna think about it much (which likely also translates to you not having looked at the links provided in the profile), don’t vote

 

[That_moron2]

If you’re not gonna think about it much (which likely also translates to you not having looked at the links provided in the profile), don’t vote

Fair enough. I'm gonna look into things more and then reconsider my stance.

 

[That_moron2]

Yeah Noir definitely takes this. Although he doesn't have self perception manipulation, he does have omni-directional attacks, precognition, and as Lonkitt explained above better hand to hand combat skills to make up for it. Bully also doesn't have any experience fighting someone with Noir's fairly unorthodox fighting style. That's not to say this fight will be easy work for Noir as Bully still does have a few advantages, thanks to his superior lifting strength Noir's starting move (stealth takedowns) are going to be ineffective as Bully can easily bust out of his webbing. Bully also has the A.P and Durability advantage as well as superior pain tolerance (being stabbed by the Green Goblin and being mostly fine as well and enduring cracked ribs) but that won't help much while Noir wails on him and Noir also won't tucker out since he can operate for days on end.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So should I count that as two votes for Noir?

 

[That_moron2]

So should I count that as two votes for Noir?

Yee

 

[Mariogoods]

I vote to Noir FRA.

 

[Tomfer]

Noir FRA

 

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[Peppersalt43]

Noir FRA

 

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[Ozcantabak]

I feel like Tobeys attack potency advantage is being overlooked here, Noir scales to 0.27 tons of tnt (and i think he was briefly stunned after this),meanwhile Tobey scales above 1.23 tons of tnt,

sm2 tobey (stronger than before)>sm1 tobey (better performance against goblin)>nwh tom>=cw tom=1.23 tons of tnt.

And while his spider sense isn't as good as Noir's, he's no slouch either, as soon as his sense activates he acts completely on instinct,he can see all around him simultaneously and his sense can guide him in the dark.

 

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[Peppersalt43]

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[Lonkitt]

I feel like Tobeys attack potency advantage is being overlooked here, Noir scales to 0.27 tons of tnt (and i think he was briefly stunned after this),meanwhile Tobey scales above 1.23 tons of tnt,

sm2 tobey (stronger than before)>sm1 tobey (better performance against goblin)>nwh tom>=cw tom=1.23 tons of tnt.

And while his spider sense isn't as good as Noir's, he's no slouch either, as soon as his sense activates he acts comC)pletely on instinct,he can see all around him simultaneously and his sense can guide him in the dark.

Oh God, here we go again

A) Raimi Peter did not become "stronger than before". His missing strength just returned to him. The "and more" is referring to his other abilities

B) Raimi Peter and MCU Peter are equal in strength. The only reason Raimi Peter initially """did better""" was due to the fact that MCU Peter was, in Goblin's words, choking on his own morality. Once that was gone, he demolished Norman

C) Gonna need a CRT if you wanna have the Instinctive Action feat added to his profile

D) Being guided in the dark isn't really that impressive compared to Noir here. Noir can flatout just see in the dark and even has people and objects of importance highlighted to him