Sora No Otoshimono: Possible Upgrades?

[Antvasima]

I would appreciate further community input here.

 

[Freedomstar]

Here's What I'm thinking what they tiers should look like.

Ikaros

Tier: 6-B possibly 6-A with shield, 4-A, likely 3-A

Attack potency: Country level(destroyed the Babylonian empire in base form and was going to destroy Japan in one shot while weak), possibly continental (While weak, She stated that she was going to clean the world with her shield.) Multi-Solar system level(She was able to spam Synapse), likely Universe level (Just by activating Pandora mode it was stated she was reaching levels to take on a now advanced Synapse. She was also able to take on Pandora 3 Chaos in combat for a short about of time.)

Astraea

Tier: Possibly 6-A, 4-A, at least Low 2-C

Attack Potency: Possibly continental( She was stated to have the strongest weapons, It was also stated by their creator that Astraea can easily slice through Ikaros' shield), 4-A (She fought Uranus Queen Ikaros, who was trying to finish Synapse off) Universe level + (In Pandora mode she was able to fight Chaos evenly until she got overpowered), At least universe level + (She one shotted Chaos)

Tell me what yall think about just these 2 first.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know, but the structure of your suggested statistics is rather bad, as it is hard to understand what is intended. Keys at the bottom with corresponding columns would be better.

 

[Freedomstar]

Base form/Weakened Uranus Queen|Full Powered Uranus Queen| Pandora Ikaros

Base From (still stronger than base and weak Ikaros)|Full powered based form| Pandora| Pandora 2

Is that somewhat better?

 

[Antvasima]

Somewhat, yes, but it is still a bit messy.

 

[Kaltias]

Ikaros' shield is not 6-A (Life wiping is 6-C for the record)

Synapse is not tier 2 for reasons pointed out by me and DT. Even if it was, Low 2-C Angeloids is so far above all their other showings that it's an obvious outlier.

4-A and 3-A make no sense as literally nothing in the verse has those specific tiers.

Those threads are honestly becoming tiring

 

[Freedomstar]

When Astaea fought Chaos it was stated that their shield requires a lot of energy to even maintain. When Ikaros contained Melan apollon, she had to put more energy in the shield which caused it to expand. I'm pretty sure giving it global range would cause a lot of energy.

Like what? Synapase took the big bang and universal reality warping hundreds of times that was supposed to affect Synapse and it did nothing. The only reason it did something this time because Sugata has enough time to hack the rule with his laptop. The target was Synapse and even confirmed by an angel that lived there for EONS.

ummm how? Before that little PIS showing with Nymph the constant story was that Ikaros spammed Synapse. It still was even after that PIS moment so... Anyways they don't fight at full power all the time. Just about all of their attacks are AP, so... Universal level characters like Beerus and Goku can fight on earth without destroying it but with this series it's an outlier. Heck the angeloids speed must be an outlier too because they fly at different mach speeds sometimes.

4-A is for Ikaros spamming Synapse. obviously not even a tier 6 or 5 should put a dent in a place that took all that.

3-A is for when Synapse took the destruction of the universe hundreds of times not even affected.

Pandora Ikaros was gaining to take on Synapse. She managed to fight Chaos evenly before getting over powered.

I presented all of scans on why Synapse is 3-A to low 2-C..... The constant story of the manga was that base form destroyed the babylonia empire and was told by a boy who look like Tomoki to destroy Synapse. This caused fear to all the people there. Mino kept sending angeloids like Nymph, Astraea, and the harpies to get Ikaros because he wanted that power to himself. Hence the reason he built chaos and siren for Ikaros...Heck they were so scared of Ikaros they bulit new weapons there and a defense system there. At the ending we found out everyone on Synapse was so scared of Ikaros, they put some kind of hax fire inside of her everything she comes close to Synapse.

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Kaltias' sense of judgement.

 

[Freedomstar]

Idk how??? Ikaros destroying Synapse is like one of the main part of the manga. As I showed above.

 

[Freedomstar]

I'm back fully now and this was never decided on yet.

 

[Antvasima]

I no longer remember this discussion well. Reviving old threads rarely gets any good results.

 

[Freedomstar]

It was stated if top angeloids like Pandora Ikaros, Astraea, and Chaos should get a low 2-C. Ikaros in Uranus Queen form Spammed Synapse. Synapse was able to withstand universal reality warping, and timeline resets hundreds of times without being affected, along with the big bang. Only in the last chapter did the timeline reset affect Synapse, because The Rule was hacked. The land was still unaffaced by the universal reality warping.

The whole story has been about Ikaros destroying Synapse, and sending angeloids to her core because she is so powerful.

The thing is if they get upgraded the melans would too since they are stronger than Uruanus Queen Ikaros.

Pandora Nymph would most likely be scaled off Uranus Queen since she is stronger.

 

[Antvasima]

Well none of this was accepted before, and it is not going to be accepted due to reviving a dead thead.

 

[Freedomstar]

Well it was stated to be an outlier by Kalt, but I showed evidence that the main story revolves around what Ikaros did. The king of Synapse wants to get her power, so bad that he send angeloids after her and they fail. He puts a self destruction device inside her if she ever comes near synapse without permission because they are scared of her. Because of Ikaros they installed Jupiter, which is a weapon that protects Synapse.

King Minos grew tired of wanting the core that he made his own cores that are more powerful than Uranus Queen, but not stable.

The story really revolves around Ikaros destroying Synapse. It is literally stated in almost every chapter she did this.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I do't know, and Kaltias has likely lost interest. Didn't DontTalk reject this as well?

 

[Freedomstar]

His point was they didn't use the rule to directly affect Synapse. I showed scans that they did.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you will have to ask Kaltias to comment here again then.

 

[Freedomstar]

@Kaltias I see you're back. Is there some way we can get a possibly or scale off Nymph feat?

I provided everything that busting Synapse scales off the entire story and the reason Nymph, Astraea and etc all came to be. If that's not enough can they at least scale off Nymph feat. It was actually show consistent throughout the manga.

Also I think their speed needs to be upgraded.

https://www.***********.net/sora-no-otoshimono/75/6 https://www.***********.net/sora-no-otoshimono/75/7 https://www.***********.net/sora-no-otoshimono/75/8 https://www.***********.net/sora-no-otoshimono/75/9 https://www.***********.net/sora-no-otoshimono/75/10 https://www.***********.net/sora-no-otoshimono/75/11 In these scans Pandora Astraea was literally flying on photons. She was flying so fast that that even Nymph radar could not sense her. Pandora Ikaros > Pandora Astraea before Pandora 2 in Top flight speed.

Could we also add the speed femtosecond accuracy to her profile? https://m.imgur.com/ycK8xIL?r It might not reactions but it's still the speed to deploy it. On the other thread it was stated it's femtosecond perception.

 

[Freedomstar]

Also their lifting strength should be higher https://m.imgur.com/a/oCIac They're at class 25 for Astraea creating a huge snowball, but base Ikaros with no power ups carried this large chicken that dwarfed mountains in the background

 

[Antvasima]

His notifications may not work for this thread. A polite reminder via his message wall might be acceptable if he does not respond within a few days.

 

[Kaltias]

Photon powered wings =/= light speed.

Lifting strength should be higher but I never got around to calculating it.

I'm not sure about the femtoseconds speed thing. It's the delay in Ikaros' reactions, but it does imply that Aegis' deployment should be around that timeframe normally

 

[Freedomstar]

Well, well Ikaros not at full power Artemis can reach Mach 5800 The melan power is speed is vastly superior than Ikaros So Mach 5800 x 2 if we double the power. Which is Mach 11600 + 370% speed upgrade. Which is Mach 54520. Ikaros was able to react to a Chaos, who reacted to Astraea photon flight. So they should be Relativistic to light speed right? If I did this right?


I think it should be noted that it's the speed for the shield only.

Okay you're gonna get to the lifting strength so that's good

How about the AP uograde(

 

[Kaltias]

I'm fine with "At least Sub-Relativistic" given that it's quite lowballed

My opinion about the AP upgrade is the same.

For the sake of the argument, Synapse is Low 2-C.

This leads to:

Low 2-C Ikaros

Low 2-C Astraea

Low 2-C Harpy

Low 2-C Chaos

Low 2-C Syren

Low 2-C Pandora Chaos

Low 2-C Hiyori

Low 2-C Ikaros Melan

Low 2-C Astraea Melan

Low 2-C Pandora Ikaros

Low 2-C Post-Absorption Chaos

Low 2-C Pandora Astraea

Low 2-C Pandora 2 Astraea

Low 2-C Pandora Nymph (At least via self-destruction)

Low 2-C Minos' shield

The fact that no one of them has an individual Low 2-C feat (not scaling, feat) proves that it's an outlier.

 

[Freedomstar]

Well the whole story revolves around Ikaros doing this

Synapse is low 2-C because of the timeline reset

Looking back the timeline reset did affect Synapse

Synapse did survive the elimination of the universe and the Big Bang numerous of times

If anything it's a 3-A feat Harpies didn't do anything to Ikaros. They only hurt nymph and her durability isn't cute. Siren was made to take out Ikaros in water. As you know you, Angeloids can't move in water their wings soak up so much water to the point they can't move. But apparently Chimera is a powerful blast because Chaos likes to use it so idk about her Eos Chaos would definitely scale (with just a 3-A) Hiyori is mostly hax. Her powers easily work on a planetary scale but the only think she did was lower the air pressure to kill and downers and rip the Angeloids wings momentarily. She's basically a life wiper. The melans would get a 3-A scaling off Astraea and Ikaros Pandora Ikaros would still be 3-A Pandora nymph would be 3-A though it could be noted that her hacking psi blast causes physical damage like maxima, Jean grey, MMH, Xavier and more psi blast can shoot through physical constructs Pandora 2 Astraea would get an at least 3-A Same with Pandora 3 chaos __________ Are we gonna put at least sub-Relativistic+ possibly Relativistic for nymph? For Ikaros, Chaos, and Astraea Sub-Relativistic+ possibly Relativistic with MFTL+ shield deployment?

Well busting Synapse is 3-A and it's been the Main and consistent story. Chaos in her final form was stated to have enough power to destroy Synapse, Earth, and reality Ikaros in her pandora mode was gaining power to take on the new advanced synapse So not everyone scales

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Kaltias. We cannot upgrade the entire cast based on a single outlier if the rest of the story completely contradicts this. The author was likely not thinking through the implications.

Perhaps we should close this neverending thread? We are very unlikely to change our minds regardless how much you argue about this.

 

[Freedomstar]

Kazc

 

[Freedomstar]

The entire will not be upgraded. I showed why above.

Nothing it the story contradicts this. We're reminded every chapter that Ikaros busted synapse Because of busting Synapse her powers were sealed and put a hax fire inside her. If she ever return to Synapse without permission, she will burn from the inside out. Zeus is installed because Ikaros busted synapse Minos wanted her core for busting so he sent nymph to get her while weak. Nymph accidentally unlocked her powers and failed Minos send harpies and they fail Astraea didn't want to do anything. Her willpower was strong enough over come her collar. Because all the Angeloids failed Minos made his own unstable cores with the melans Synapse is rebuilt with new weapons and her pandora mode was gaining the power to destroy it. That means she can consistently do it. Astraea is comparable to Ikaros until Astraea unlocked pandora 2 mode Chaos was stated to destroy Synapse, Earth, and reality when she absorbed the melan cores.

The story is definitely consistent and the statements help put for pandora mode.

 

[Antvasima]

So what statistics changes do you want specifically, and for which characters?

 

[Freedomstar]

Siren Hiyori Harpies ^^^^^^ they do not get an upgrade considering the fact Siren and Hiyori are built upon the Angeloids weakness and Hiyori is basically hax and a life wiper. Harpies are not strong and would more likely scale to base nymph

Nymph would be a possibly 3-A with paradise song since it harmed Chaos multiple times, but Chaos wasn't fighting back. Ikaros would get 3-A for destroying Synapse and being stated to destroy it again Astraea would compare to Ikaros but her pandora 2 mode would be at least 3-A Chaos same as Astraea

All the rest do not scale unless they have fought and hurt Ikaros in her Uranus Queen mode and up. Only 4 characters would get this upgrade, if it happens

 

[Kaltias]

The Harpy would scale with their suicide bomb because it was made to kill Ikaros.

Syren fighting in water isn't relevant, she would still need Low 2-C AP to kill Ikaros if the latter had Low 2-C durability.

Hiyori's wind tore Astraea's and Ikaros' wings, so it scales from their durability.

And it doesn't matter how frequently it's stated, because it's inconsistent with the other feats.

I don't know how i'm supposed to explain that it's an outlier in a more blatant way

 

[Freedomstar]

That doesn't make any sense. How would it be made to kill Ikaros when she tanked it? https://m.imgur.com/a/vfxF0 It was gonna destroy the region they were in not kill Ikaros like Minos wanted too. https://m.imgur.com/a/bWQFi No, she was made to take Ikaros out underwater. Angeloids weakest are water it's been stated over and over again. Basically, her task was to kill Ikaros in water where she would be weak at. Even in a pool Ikaros sinks and can't do nothing at all.

I don't remember any wing durability feats, but can you show some?

What other feats? Ikaros doesn't even fight at full power half the time and she's mostly in her base mode. If she enters Uranus queen mode other than too fight even though she holds back or it's for comedic purposes. Destroying Synapse was at the peak of her powers. The only time Ikaros didn't hold back when she busted Synapse and when she killed the melans for what they did to Tomoki. That's like saying every single fight in DBS must be a universal fight. If you get the comparison I'm trying to make.

 

[Kaltias]

It was made to kill pre-Pandora Ikaros, who is the one with the "Low 2-C feat"

Ikaros' durability underwater is the same. She only loses mobility because her wings become super heavy.

It's not about "what other feats contradict this". It's about "what other feats support this".

False equivalence. DBS does in fact have multiple universal statements.

Also, nothing ever implies that their wings are infinitely weaker than them

 

[Antvasima]

This does not seem to lead anywhere. We will have to close the discussion soon.

 

[Freedomstar]

It's a 3-A feat The Angeloids can only go under water for so long. I think 1000 to 4000 meters below sea level is the maximum amount and Ikaros couldn't do a thing, while Siren is able to go 8000 feet.

https://www.***********.net/sora-no-otoshimono/45/32 https://www.***********.net/sora-no-otoshimono/45/33 Ikaros creator says Ikaros get weak in water.

Other feats that support this is fight chaos, melans, damaging chaos, who took multiple hits from Zeus, stated to take a new improved synapse from the last time she destroyed it, stronger than Nymph, who bomb wiped away Zeus, took on chaos momentarily after she absorbed the melan cores and was stated to destroy Synapse, earth, and reality.

And SnO have multiple universal statements and feats to prove why Synapse is universal.

Or they can scale off nymph chipping sun feat.

 

[Kaltias]

It's not 3-A...

And water pressure killing them is a low end outlier even if they are 6-B.

No. What i'm saying is, show me Ikaros, Chaos, Astraea, or anyone blowing up the universe with their own power.

Yes, Synapse.

Almost positive that "sun chipping" isn't quantifiable at all.

 

[Freedomstar]

Synapse was affected by the timeline reset Wouldn't it be smart to scale it based about surviving the elimination of the universe numerous times and the Big Bang.

No, they don't die from it. They are extremely weak when they are in water. Water is the Angeloids kryptonite except it doesn't kill them. Chaos literally speed a long time surviving 8000 ft under water unable to move and weak. They didn't die though just weak. Remember every character has a weakness no matter how strong you are. I think the wings have the core in there. When Ikaros wings were blown off she was out of action. When nymph wings were ripped off her hacking abilities didn't work good. When Hiyori was slashing through their wings. Ikaros had to quickly put them in aegis. Minos always call Ikaros core "variable wing core"

Well, all of these characters can do it AP style like Ikaros did it to Synapse. Now the only character that was stated to do something like this was chaos, when she was stated to have the power to destroy reality, Synapse and earth.

Well she busted through several planets.

 

[Kaltias]

Which is why it isn't Low 2-C.

Sure thing. It's also not stated that their durability drops.

I already explained multiple times that Chaos doesn't destroy reality on her own.

And planetary everyone in SnO sounds consistent to you? Nymph is immensely below literally everyone else who actually fights.

It's literally SnO's version of Roshi's moon bust

 

[Freedomstar]

The Rule is low 2-C but durability wise 3-A It's stated they're weak in water though 1.No, when she absorbed the melan cores she had to power to do this in melan arc. 2.Chapters later way down the line. Chaos wanted to feel love so she killed Hiyori and absorbed her core and emotions. Nymph found out and started spamming paradise song to kill chaos. Chaos escapes to Tomoki and nymph comes in after telling everyone to move so she can kill chaos and tell everyone that she killed Hiyori. Chaos trying to defend herself stabbed Tomoki by accident. She thought she killed him. She literally stated she will make everything right. She took Sugata and make him be able to read the language of synapse. An Angeloid can't use the rule but a human or angel can. He activated one of the wishes by the angel. So everything was being eliminated so the timeline can be reset. You took chaos statement out of context. This statement was meant for chaos when she absorbed the melans powers. Chaos powers do not allow her to do a timeline reset.

 

[Freedomstar]

I mean if you don't wanna scale them from busting Synapse then it would be reliable to scale from nymph.

Ikaros being only country level while weak is a massive downplay, when she has these other feats.

 

[Kaltias]

I'm not taking anything out of context.

I'm saying, Chaos has that statement.

Then she proceeds to do absolutely nothing that's universal in scale under her own power