Sonny Boy introduction thread: Cosmology

[Blackcurrant91]

I am attempting another shot at quantifying the frankly absurd world of Sonny Boy, one of my favourite pieces of media that exists.

Sonny Boy Cosmology

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This may not even be a verse that is scaleable as such but I find the cosmology intriguing nonetheless. I got vague acceptance as a 'possibly 1-A' last time but I think this scaling makes more sense.

(You should watch Sonny Boy, its good. Fun fact, it was created by the director of One Punch Man season 1)

 

[Deonment]

As the person who helped current with this both times, yeah i agree lol

 

[Blackcurrant91]

As the person who helped current with this both times, yeah i agree lol

Idk why I bothered but here we are again. Thanks for your help.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

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[Blackcurrant91]

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[Blackcurrant91]

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[Blackcurrant91]

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[Blackcurrant91]

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[Blackcurrant91]

Gonna bump this badboy forever

 

[Blackcurrant91]

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[Blackcurrant91]

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[Blackcurrant91]

necroing my own thread bump

 

[Blackcurrant91]

bump

 

[Tago238]

Hang on lemme watch the series so I can vociferously disagree.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

bump

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@FinePoint @Firestorm808 @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ActuallySpaceMan42 help here would be appreciated

 

[Qawsedf234]

help here would be appreciated

The main issue I see here is this assumption

if we were to put it into one word, would be the “M theory” that is known as the “unified field theory”, something that governs even the 11 dimensions of physics

I believe this meant to represent a world which is governed by said theory as an example of what a world of higher dimensions would be like, not that all worlds in 'this worlds' are based on M theory.

TLDR: This Worlds can support higher dimensional structures making them vary from Low 2-C to High 1-C but as a whole are 1-B due to being nested within each other

M-Theory is a unified String Theory proposal. This means you have five dimensions that are membranes/significant size and six that are compacted dimensions. To copy stuff from MF Duff's paper regarding it

Superunification underwent a major paradigm shift in 1984 when eleven-dimensional supergravity was knocked off its pedestal by ten-dimensional superstrings. This last year has witnessed a new shift of equal proportions: perturbative ten-dimensional superstrings have in their turn been superseded by a new non-perturbative theory called M-theory, which describes supermembranes and superfivebranes, which subsumes all five consistent string theories and whose low energy limit is, ironically, eleven-dimensional supergravity. In particular, six-dimensional string/string duality follows from membrane/fivebrane duality by compactifying M-theory on S1/Z2×K3 (heterotic/heterotic duality) or S1×K3 (Type IIA/heterotic duality) or S1/Z2 × T4 (heterotic/Type IIA duality) or S1 × T4 (Type IIA/Type IIA duality).

The maximum spacetime dimension in which one can formulate a consisistent supersymmetric theory is eleven3. For this reason in the early 1980’s many physicists looked to D = 11 supergravity [2], in the hope that it might provide that superunification [3] they were all looking for. Then in 1984 superunification underwent a major paradigm shift: eleven-dimensional supergravity was knocked off its pedestal by ten-dimensional superstrings [4], and eleven dimensions fell out of favor. This last year, however, has witnessed a new shift of equal proportions: perturbative ten-dimensional superstrings have in their turn been superseded by a new non-perturbative theory called M-theory, which describes (amongst other things) supersymmetric extended objects with two spatial dimensions (supermembranes), and five spatial dimensions (superfivebranes), which subsumes all five consistent string theories and whose low energy limit is, ironically, eleven-dimensional supergravity.

What this means is that you Low 1-C space, with the higher dimensions being compacted strings that wrap around each other.

So I only see Low 1-C being acceptable here. The universes can be an Aleph-1 amount of Low 2-C spaces and dimensions higher than the fifth are not required to be infinite for M-Theory to work. String Dimensions are not large enough for an AP rating due to being on the planck scale.

TLDR: The Movie Theatre World contains Infinite 'This Worlds' and because of how Nagaras power works he is the 'observer' which crystalizes the possibilities of the paths the students could potentially take which contains all the other worlds making it High 1-B (Hateno Island is also High 1-B because it encompases all the nested worlds as well)

With the above, I don't see how this is High 1-B. Even with the previous example, where you assume the universes are 12-D, being nested a second time is just 13-D.

This can be accomplished by just being 1-C or higher with the previous M-Theory stuff.

TLDR: Given the Darkness is the foundation for all of 'this worlds' which includes the movie theatre world and Hateno island, it would be Low 1-A with the real world being entirely beyond any characters ability to access, observe or approach despite their powers as a further level of Low 1-A

Low 1-A is a universe/space composed of all possible mathematical worlds or logical sets. That's not done here; it's just a higher plane of existence that they can't get closer to. You'd have to prove they have a transfinite growth rate for it to be Low 1-A. This is just higher into 1-C to at most 1-B for being 12th Dimensional in my mind.

So I don't agree with the current cosmology proposals.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Thank you for the help.

 

[Deonment]

The main issue I see here is this assumption
M-Theory is a unified String Theory proposal. This means you have five dimensions that are membranes/significant size and six that are compacted dimensions. To copy stuff from MF Duff's paper regarding it
What this means is that you Low 1-C space, with the higher dimensions being compacted strings that wrap around each other.

So I only see Low 1-C being acceptable here. The universes can be an Aleph-1 amount of Low 2-C spaces and dimensions higher than the fifth are not required to be infinite for M-Theory to work. String Dimensions are not large enough for an AP rating due to being on the planck scale.

The argument is not solely that, it is that the This Worlds are embedded into each other, in each containing another this world "below" them and being contained by another one "above them", and that this embedding process is equivalent to a dimensional gap for the same reason a multiverse being contained in a higher world's atom or blade of grass would be higher dimensional compared to the lower one, its a composite hierachy of sorts

In addition that quote isn't exactly the full quote, just the part that speaks to the higher-dimensional nature of the power and the This Worlds

Be it something you might call a “bird” or “war” or something you can’t quite understand, Kodama’s power, if we were to put it into one word, would be the “M theory” that is known as the “unified field theory”, something that governs even the 11 dimensions of physics. If something exists in this world, then it even exists in the work, except how deep you would have to dig down for it is something that one couldn’t possibly understand, so at the end of the day, that, too, becomes “something that exists as something that can’t be understood” in its own right.

With the above, I don't see how this is High 1-B. Even with the previous example, where you assume the universes are 12-D, being nested a second time is just 13-D.

This can be accomplished by just being 1-C or higher with the previous M-Theory stuff.

The Movie Theatre World world High 1-B as it contains all the This Worlds and their infinite hierarchy, being both the "Box" in which their possibilities exist, and the standing point from which Nagara can observe and actualize the possibilities within the "Box"

But if the above isn't accepted, eh

Low 1-A is a universe/space composed of all possible mathematical worlds or logical sets. That's not done here; it's just a higher plane of existence that they can't get closer to. You'd have to prove they have a transfinite growth rate for it to be Low 1-A. This is just higher into 1-C to at most 1-B for being 12th Dimensional in my mind.

Okay, this one may very well be on me, I just forgot our standards changed that much regarding Low 1-A
The idea was it the darkness acted as the foundation and container of all the This Worlds, and the real world stayed equally beyond them no matter how they far they went up or down the This Worlds or even in the darkness, but yeah, due to our standards they should just be +1 for the darkness and +2 for the real world dimensions (or above baseline in the case of high 1-B) into whatever tier the rest of the cosmology gets

 

[Qawsedf234]

The argument is not solely that, it is that the This Worlds are embedded into each other, in each containing another this world "below" them and being contained by another one "above them", and that this embedding process is equivalent to a dimensional gap for the same reason a multiverse being contained in a higher world's atom or blade of grass would be higher dimensional compared to the lower one, its a composite hierachy of sorts

A universe being embedded within another universe is not the same as an infinite stair-step of higher structures. Being a recursive structure is just Low 1-C.

In addition that quote isn't exactly the full quote, just the part that speaks to the higher-dimensional nature of the power and the This Worlds

You mentioned M-Theory as an explicit justification for High 1-C and 1-B. Neither work for those rating in the context provided.

The Movie Theatre World world High 1-B as it contains all the This Worlds and their infinite hierarchy, being both the "Box" in which their possibilities exist, and the standing point from which Nagara can observe and actualize the possibilities within the "Box"

You're confusing the nature of a recursive structure. The Theatre World contains an infinite set of lower world structures, but these lower world structures are contained in a +1D space. If they're all 4D, the theatre would be 5D. If they're 196126D then it would be 196127D. You do not require an infinite-dimensional structure for that to work out.

The most I currently see is this:

• The Multiverse is 5D with six compacted dimensions
• The Theatre world is 6D
• The Darkness is 7D
• The real world is probably 12D since the 11-Dimensional Structures that the other realities use can't bridge a gap to it

 

[Deonment]

A universe being embedded within another universe is not the same as an infinite stair-step of higher structures. Being a recursive structure is just Low 1-C.

Yet these infinite universes are contained within relatively normal and directly finite objects such as tables, cloths, and whatnot. It trivializes the lower infinite structure to a degree that it appears to be finite, which is something that we have accepted for higher and lower dimensional structures since the days of Dark Tower (though there are other examples, such as in JTTW where Buddha Worlds are contained in flowers/grains of sands, in addition to Dragon Talisman doing something similar, but with drops of water instead before they got upgraded to high 1-A)

You're confusing the nature of a recursive structure. The Theatre World contains an infinite set of lower world structures, but these lower world structures are contained in a +1D space. If they're all 4D, the theatre would be 5D. If they're 196126D then it would be 196127D. You do not require an infinite-dimensional structure for that to work out.

I am not, I am saying that the This Worlds, which are explicitly infinite in number, with each being contained in another This World
The Movie Theatre World is the very foundation of the This Worlds, it is the box in which the possibility of their existence is, and from within which they can be manifested, it would be High 1-B because in this argument, the hierarchy of This Worlds is infinite, and thus contains and transcends an infinite dimensional hierarchy, making it high 1-B, even moreso considering it can manifest worlds with lower (internal) dimensions as easily as it can ones with a higher count, to point out the 2D world, which the author directly states was based on Flatland

Here, we drew Flatland. The novel Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions served as the motif here.[2] Actually, we already did it in the Space Dandy episode that Tou Enjou-san did the screenplay for (Episode 24 “An Other-Dimensional Tale, Baby”), but I took it on as a challenge to try it one more time. This time, let’s do it with a fresh understanding. In one of Sonny Boy’s themes, there is “a world of higher dimensions,” but I thought it would be possible to include the two-dimensional flat world.
-Episode 5 Commentary

But that is a less relevant point than me saying the hierarchy is infinite

The most I currently see is this:

• The Multiverse is 5D with six compacted dimensions
• The Theatre world is 6D
• The Darkness is 7D
• The real world is probably 12D since the 11-Dimensional Structures that the other realities use can't bridge a gap to it

If we're doing that, the 12 would start at The Darkness, as the This Worlds can't reach The Darkness at all, and everything that wasn't made by God (which is basically just the school you see in the first couple of scans) gets erased in it

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yet these infinite universes are contained within relatively normal and directly finite objects such as tables, cloths, and whatnot. It trivializes the lower infinite structure to a degree that it appears to be finite, which is something that we have accepted for higher and lower dimensional structures since the days of Dark Tower

With Dark Tower the steps are infinitely greater than the previous steps, so there's a trivialization aspect to them. While I can't speak on JTTW, to my knowledge universes containing infinite universes has been treated as having an Aleph-1 number unless you can prove this.

What you posted is not trivialization in a High 1-B fashion. From reading the FAQ

A: Depends on the number in question. The answer varies depending on the specification.

Let's take the smallest infinite cardinal (aleph-0, or ℵ0, the cardinality of countably infinite sets) as an example in this case: A set comprised of a countably infinite number of 0-dimensional points is itself a 0-dimensional space under the usual notions of dimensionality, being thus still infinitely small. Meanwhile, a countably infinite number of planets is High 3-A, a countably infinite number of universes 2-A, and countably infinitely many dimensions High 1-B.

We then move on to the power set of ℵ0, P(ℵ0), which is an uncountably infinite quantity and represents the set of all the ways in which you can arrange the elements of a set whose cardinality is the former, and is also equal to the size of the set of all real numbers. In terms of points, one can say that everything from 1-dimensional space to (countably) infinite-dimensional space falls under it, as all of these spaces have the same number of elements (coordinates, in this case), in spite of each being infinitely larger than the preceding one by the intuitive notions of size that we regularly utilize (Area, Volume, etc.).

On the other hand, an P(ℵ0) number of universes is Low 1-C, and a similar number of spatial dimensions is High 1-B+.

This just seems like a Low 1-C justification. Which already fits in with M-Theory.

The Movie Theatre World is the very foundation of the This Worlds, it is the box in which the possibility of their existence is, and from within which they can be manifested, it would be High 1-B because in this argument, the hierarchy of This Worlds is infinite, and thus contains and transcends an infinite dimensional hierarchy, making it high 1-B, even moreso considering it can manifest worlds with lower (internal) dimensions as easily as it can ones with a higher count, to point out the 2D world, which the author directly states was based on Flatland

This is based on a flawed reasoning in my mind. Your argument would only work if thr lower realms themselves already contained an infinite number of dimensions or the theater world showed evidence of being beyond other universes to the point where even an infinite amount of set increases wouldn't bridge it.

The author quoting flatland also doesn't support the theater being High 1-B, since M-Theory accepts the 1-5th dimensions as being infinite geometric branes/axis.

If we're doing that, the 12 would start at The Darkness, as the This Worlds can't reach The Darkness at all, and everything that wasn't made by God (which is basically just the school you see in the first couple of scans) gets erased in it

Alright, I guess I'm fine with 12D Darkness and a 13D Real World.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

The author stated that he intended M-Theory to represent 'higher dimensions' as part of the story. Something I just realised actually is that Yamabiko's mental realm that Kodama can control with her power depicts it containing the other timelines like the school etc as well.

Here she is seemingly showing the students her power which shows them said other timelines like images on a 'brane' so each world seems to contain all previous worlds in the same way as the movie theatre world does, as long as you have a power that lets you control the world like Kodama of Nagara and Yamabiko

I think the writer just didn't really understand what M-Theory actually is and just thought of it as a motif to represent the concept of 'higher dimensions' through a 'unified field'

 

[Blackcurrant91]

bump

 

[Blackcurrant91]

bumpo

 

[Blackcurrant91]

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[Blackcurrant91]

any conclusions?

Bumpo

 

[Qawsedf234]

any conclusions?

My current thoughts expressed here:

The Multiverse is 5D with six compacted dimensions

The Theatre world is 6D

Alright, I guess I'm fine with 12D Darkness and a 13D Real World.

Haven't changed.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

@Deonment any further points or are you happy with above?

 

[Deonment]

shrug
I'm good, yeah

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Okay, I have made the changes to the cosmology blog and profiles. Will post them shortly.