Sonic VS Lavos

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Both at strongest 2-A versions. Speed equal.
Lavos: 1

Sonic: 8

Tie: 0

 

[Christian_Higdon]

Sweet Jeez, Rick...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I still think this is a fair match but absorption + bfr to nonexistence + some of the best acausality on this website = screwed Sonic.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Pretty sure Sonic can get out of nonexistence BFR with At least Multiversal+ range. The BFR to 2D sounds like it's more effective.

Though I need a run-down over what Lavos's best abilities are before I can make a decision.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I agree with needing more info. Lavos is kinda just a figure I know is really formidable, but I haven't looked into any thread with him. I'll hold my vote for now.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

what about sonic passive fate hax?

 

[MYHERO]

@Setsunan Acasualty lets Lavos bypass favoritism

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

@Setsunan Acasualty lets Lavos bypass favoritism

Lavos does not have type 4 so his acausality won`t neg it

 

[MYHERO]

I still think this is a fair match but absorption + bfr to nonexistence + some of the best acausality on this website = screwed Sonic.

I just looked at this.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

also zach you linked lavos to sonic and sonic to lavos can ou please fix that

 

[MYHERO]

I think he did that on purpose

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

After looking through Lavos's profile, you can call me crazy, but I think Sonic can take it.

Lavos's absorption is a big deal, Sonic though can counter it with his own passive holy manipulation to nullify Lavos and his type 8 allows him to retain his life force.

The existence + non existence erasure, this is basically similar to conceptual manipulation, which Sonic resists as he was unaffected when tanking the Super Genesis Wave, also helps that Enerjak outright said he couldn't destroy Super Sonic.

As for how Sonic can win here? He has experience with type 3 acausality and going by previous threads, Lavos is vulnerable to conceptual manipulation. Sonic also uses Chaos Control more often later in the comics, so what he could do is repeat like he did in Worlds Collide and go outside of the multiverse to nuke it of any Lavos clones (IDK if Time Devourer still has the clone business or not like the earlier keys), thus taking care of Lavos for good and he'd have no Eggman to mess him up.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Lavos is not vulnerable to concept stuff he just does not have resistance to it

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

He has no resistance so yeah, it'll work.

 

[MYHERO]

@Shadow let's wait for a chrono trigger enthusiast to come before you hop on to that bandwagon yet. Last time with Magnamon vs Sonic, Dragon really changed our perspective (though it's still inconclusive)

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Cal is already here.

 

[MYHERO]

First Pokémon, now Chrono. Cal must really love JRPGs.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

One minute. Forcing Fate to come.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Holy manipulation is completely useless here, btw. Lavos absorbs holy attacks passively. If anything, it makes him stronger.

Same with fate manipulation. Literally the entire plot of Chrono Cross would make that child's play here.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

What do holy attacks in Chrono Trigger do? Is it similar to Sonic's.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Doesn't really matter. They're holy based, that's all that matters. It doesn't matter the hax behind it if the source of the power gets negated. The primary effect being shut down stops the secondary effect.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Holy manipulation is one of those dumb powers that can mean a fuckton of things

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, Solaris's acausality is actual sh*t compared to base Lavos's, let alone Time Devourer.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Both are type 3s to be fair

But we have like, four type 3s on the whole site

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Both are type 3s to be fair
But we have like, four type 3s on the whole site

high level smt demons have it

 

[Acupunch]

Lavos. I feel like Sonic gets Haxxedstomped through Hell and back...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

There's also that Sonic's immortality doesn't come into play when it Lavos kills him naturally, he'll be denied the right to have ever existed, and this works on acausals.

 

[MYHERO]

I told you guys this was gonna be bad.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

There's also that Sonic's immortality doesn't come into play when it Lavos kills him naturally, he'll be denied the right to have ever existed, and this works on acausals.

The Super Genesis Wave does the same thing and Sonic tanked it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

SGW is vastly different. I know what the SGW does.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

That doesn't sound too different. SGW can rewrite the multiverse on a conceptual level and can erase beings to make it as if they never existed at all.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Denied the right to have ever existed isn't the same as erasing from existence.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

That sounds like erasing someone from the present and past at once, like monika

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

That's Mid-Godly negging, which is what conceptual erasure does.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Sonic also needs to actively nuke an infinite multiverse to counter Lavos, which I doubt he would do if he ever could even figure it out.

I also forgot that Lavos can get rid of resistances, so Sonic's resistances fall short too. Granted, that requires an attack. It's not passive.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Why is speed equal? Why are the names reversed?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

The names are reversed to mess with people

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

But...why?

 

[MYHERO]

I think he did that on purpose

Got em

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Sonic has dealt with type 3 acausality before, so I don't think he'd be clueless in figuring out about Lavos's nature.

Yeah equalizing is redundant when both are immeasurable, plus I noticed the links being reversed as well.