Sonic the Hedgehog Revisions/Downgrades

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Cal

Yes, that I agree with.

 

[FateAlbane]

Matt makes fair enough points. Siding with him here, too.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Matt The life energy of all of the living things on the planet like we actuall see being drained multiple times throughout the game instead of an illogical assumption without any actual evidence to support it?

Lifewiping the surfece isnt the same as absorbing the entirety of the planet's geothermal energy. Not even remotely close.

Still waiting for you to post the calc you brought up.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Sera and Dark649 are knowledgeable about Sonic, so asking them to participate here is probably a good idea. Ditto for people listed in the Knowledgeable Members List.

I am not sure if highlighting this thread instead was a good idea, as it will quickly get a lot of posts, and might veer off topic.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Seriously, there is no reason whatsoever to just randomly assume its absorbing the planet's geothermal energy when not only is it never shown or stated to do so, but said claim is CONTRADICTED at the end of the game

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Another feat:

https://youtu.be/dnxTKPtzWt8?t=561 Sonic fights and defeats a robot powered by all the Wisps.

This is what happens when the robot overloads:

https://youtu.be/dnxTKPtzWt8?t=819

https://youtu.be/dnxTKPtzWt8?t=889

It destroys Eggman's Interstellar Amusement Park, which is larger than a planet:

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Eggman%27s_Incredible_Interstellar_Amusement_Park

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Seriously, there is no reason whatsoever to just randomly assume its absorbing the planet's geothermal energy when not only is it never shown or stated to do so, but said claim is CONTRADICTED at the end of the game

I already answered your contradiction. You are focusing so much on specting a scientific statement from a kid's game. Think logically, what other energy could be coming from inside a planet that if drained would kill it?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Life energy. No assumptions made as thats literally what we saw happening in the game.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay Sonic Colors i actually know and can make an argument on.

First off, no, the amusement part is nowhere near the size of a planet

Secondly, being powered by something doesnt translate to utilizing the total power of said power source in every single attack.

Thirdly, that overload and self destruct destroyed the Nega Wisp Armor and would have killed Sonic as well had the Wisps not saved him.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Why do you assume life energy is this magical unquantifiable thing when it most assuredly is not, instead a very physical thing contained within the planet.

Nevertheless, it doesn't matter, Eggman specifies that all of the planet's energy was being absorbed.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Why do you assume that geothermal energy is being absorbed when nothing and no one in the game states, shows, or even implies that it is?

 

[EdwardSuoh]

It's larger than these planets

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Edward Those are nowhere near the size of actual planets

 

[EdwardSuoh]

So what, small planet level?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It wouldnt even be in the tier 5 range

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, they are the size of actual planets. The writer of Sonic Colors even stated that Eggman's amusement park is too big to fit inside a planet. And one of those planets is the natural planet of the Wisps.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

I also agree with Matt on this issue

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Matt The park is nowhere near the size of an actual planet

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That Space Station looks a lot closer to the First Person Viewer than those planets are, so no proof of being planet sized; however, I still agree with Matt about the Eggrobo thing.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Why do you assume that geothermal energy is being absorbed when nothing and no one in the game states, shows, or even implies that it is?

Because the game absolutely implies it, and you only need the slightest effort of deduction and logical thinking to realize that it has to be that to make sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

EggRobo makes a mini-sun, which collapses into a mini black-hole.

This and Infinite's sun feats should be calced.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Matt Where? I asked you to show me where and you never gave me a straight answer. Show me one time it was shown or stated to be absorbing the geothermal energy of the planet. Because if there isnt one then this is a massive and unfounded assumption with no backing whatsoever other than "It was absorbing energy so it must mean its absorbing geothermal energy" with no proof to back up said claim.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

EggRobo makes a mini-sun, which collapses into a mini black-hole.
This and Infinite's sun feats should be calced.

Where was that stated to be a mini sun exactly?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Stop being so hyperbolic and demanding of a kid's game about an antrophomorphic blue hedgehog delving into science. Use your mind and honestly think, what would make sense to be absorbed under this context, where a machine starts draining all the energy contained inside a planet, which will kill the planet once finished, and which can destroy the whole planet if released.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Yeah, I agree with Weekly. Seems to be asking the right questions imo

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

http://au.ign.com/articles/2010/10/11/sonic-team-talks-sonic-colours?page=1

"The reason why we have Dr Eggman's Incredible Interstellar Amusement Park in space is because it's so huge. The scale of it is so ridiculously huge that no planet could really accommodate it. That's why we have it in space, so it's not a case where the gameplay is in space, it's just that we wanted to really show that his amusement park is so big that it has to be in space." - Takashi Iizuka
This is who that guy is:

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Takashi_Iizuka#Credits

The whole amusement park is at least planet-sized.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Where was that stated to be a mini sun exactly?

It self-evidently is one, just look at it.

You are just ignoring visual evidence and wanting things to be chewed for you.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It self-evidently is one, just look at it.

You are just ignoring visual evidence and wanting things to be chewed for you.

So a fireball is a mini sun now...?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sonic being a "kid's game about an antrophomorphic blue hedgehog" doesnt in any way affect how we treat feats from it. If a feat isnt displayed, stated, or even implied, we have no reason to assume it did happen and dont treat it as though it actually happened, regardless of the verse the fet comes from.

 

[FateAlbane]

If the absorption of energy actually gives out equal or even bigger/faster results than absorption of energy would reflect on an actual planet in reality, and taking into account that this is shown to lay waste to the planet as claimed above.

I don't really see why we would need a 100% exact-words statement.

Wouldn't it logically be that level either way if the draining is shown to affect the planet itself or am I reading something wrong here?

 

[LordGinSama]

I think Mathew seems to make sense here.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Matt His statement completely contradicts everything shown in the game. Death of the Author should take effect in this case.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Weekly

"Fireballs" don't look exactly like stars do, and don't turn into what are obviously black holes upon collapsing. Don't be obtuse for no reason.

And the feat is there to be analyzed. Sometimes we have to do the analysis if the series doesn't. It is displayed, stated, and implied, and the dots are there to be connected.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Fate Because we never see anything except life energy being drained at any given point in the entire game

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Matt Neither did that fireball the Eggrobo created

Still waiting for you to show me where it was displayed, stated, or implied because i watched that entire video you linked and never saw any implication

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Matt His statement completely contradicts everything shown in the game. Death of the Author should take effect in this case.

No it doesn't. The literal natural planet of the Wisps is part of the Amusement Park. It is an actual planet. Mercury-sized as a lowball.

It is the whole premise of the game. Eggman has a giant space station amusement park with planets attached to it.

Angles can do a lot to make things look weird. Don't let your eyes deceive you.

Celestial bodies can look pretty funky depending on how they're framed

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Matt Yes, it does. I can pull up any cutscene with the amusement park in it and it would be absolutely dwarfed by Earth every time. At best youre looking at a pluto-sized planet and thats being extremely generous

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Weekly

I honestly don't think you are seeing the same game, now.

Do you honestly think that this thing, which looks exactly like a su, and upon exploding turns into a black vortex that sucks everything around it (I.e, a black hole, which stars can turn to), is just a "fireball".

It is a miniature sun.

 

[FateAlbane]

The case in point is that the energy is kinda sorta shown to affect the planet on that scale.

With said energy: Across the whole planet, wasteland.

Energy is given back: Planet's surface is insta-terraformed.

I'm not caring much about the nature of the energy. I just feel like it's arguing needless semantics at this point when as far as I can look the results of said absorption are shown as comparable if not outright superior to Geothermal absorption, even if it turned out to be some different source of energy.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Matt Yes, it does. I can pull up any cutscene with the amusement park in it and it would be absolutely dwarfed by Earth every time. At best youre looking at a pluto-sized planet and thats being extremely generous

None of the cutscenes you showed debunk anything. If anything they just further confirm its hugeness. Specially since it has a natural planet as smaller than it. Also you ignored the bulk of my argument contained in the rest of the post. Not the first time, too.