Sonic: Super Forms Speed Upgrade Cont.

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have left him a reminder.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Tails said there was a tear in the space time continuum @DontTalk.

Ok.

@Don't Talk

The fact the universes were being merged was the reason they were part of the same space in this game in expecific, this is why in Rush Adventure they needed a ship to travel back but in this game not

If they are only part of the same 3D space after being merged that basically means that they neither needed to warp here nor would it be likely that the universe has an edge of which we could assume that is was there that they were fused together. So the calc would still not work.

The plausibility that they warped to arrive where they were is just not there given all evidence and the location they arrive at via a cosmological 3-D model to our own universe would be the baseline past the "edge".

Unless you are going to tell me that their universe's 3-D space literally is infinite in scope of galaxies

Formulation wise I don't really understand you, so let me just shoot in the dark with my response:

The edge of the observable universe and a theoretical edge of the universe have nothing in common. The observable universe is only the part of the universe from which light can have reached a specific person. Not only is my observable universe technically slightly different than yours (and very different than that of a being in a far away galaxy), but its edge has no greater cosmological significance than a line someone more or less arbitrarily drew on a map. That two merged (realistic/edgeless) universes would be joined at the edge of the observable universe centred on earth is no more plausible than literally any other place in the universe.

Any cosmological model usually assumes the cosmological principle and for good reason. That means that all places in the universe would have about an equal distribution of stars and galaxies (regardless of whether the universe is finite or infinite btw.). As such lack of stars or galaxies would not hint at an area beyond the observable universe at all. It would more hint at a place outside of 3D space in fact… Not that I give too much on those visuals tbh.

And if we don't assume the cosmological principles we have no real reason to assume that such a dark spot is in any particular part of the universe, other than in the immediate area of earth.

Burden of proof is on the claim that they used a portal / tear in space time or chaos control or other 4-D travel to get where they were isn't simply shown on-screen, what is shown is 3-D simple movement upon close arrival to the spot, which doesn't imply what is being suggested as 4-D travel to debunk this feat. Occam's razor here.

I would say burden of proof is more on there being an edge of the universe. As said, incredibly unnatural assumption. I mean, if the universes were fusing or something than one could also traverse them 3D. Just that without an established edge we don't even need to start debating whether the universes would have been joined there in particular. So even in that case observable universe distance wouldn't hold.

 

[Theuser789]

"If they are only part of the same 3D space after being merged that basically means that they neither needed to warp here nor would it be likely that the universe has an edge of which we could assume that is was there that they were fused together. So the calc would still not work."

Uh, they never warped to anywhere, Blaze warped before the merge actualy was happening, also I don't understand the second part, why it wouldn't be at the edge then?

 

[Theuser789]

Also, I need to add that the merge was incomplete as well, because it was stopped at the end of the regular story, but only reversed after they beat the Egg Salamender, so they weren't fully merged, only partialy, and the distortion of the merge comes at the edges of the world map

Also won't the forum move affect this thread?

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Yeah, let's try to come to a conclusion soon.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that DontTalkDT makes sense. Thank you for helping out.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I still agree with DontTalk 100% and I think he summed it up perfectly. We could ask someone like Elixhaa or Ultima Reality again who were neutral based on last thread.

 

[Theuser789]

Better to ask them after the forum move, and halt this thread until them to not be rushed or anything like that

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that this thread seems to have been mostly rejected, so there hopefully shouldn't take too long to wrap this up.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I'd think it be better off if this was wrapped up before the move; especially since it's already about concluded. But will ask a few more level Admins members first.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Truth_Bullets]

I'm sure Mephistus or someone similar is working on a refute. It hasn't even been a day since Don'tTalk posted and people have lives, let's be patient.

 

[Elizhaa]

From reading the thread, I think Medeus and DontTalk's recent points more make sense so I agree their points; I disagree with the upgrade.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the input.

I think that we should probably close this thread then.

 

[Mephistus]

Nothing DontTalk or anyone else that disagrees with the upgrade has said so far and addressed why the Eggmen would be going outside their dimension via dimensional travel before/at the battle with the duo since the Eggmen didn't make a new dimension/parallel world yet to even travel to since they never at any point had both sets of Emeralds to do said act. Their dimensions were still fine when they went back so any allusion that they left isnt there. Again brings me to that the Exception is within their dimension they start out in if they couldn't just up and go to an entirely different dimension that they are not native to which would work for Eggmanland to be made within since they need both sets of emeralds in order to have a location to arrive at; eg the new dimension/parallel world they would make. I really view arguing this part with people at this point is them having a misunderstanding on the lore here on why dimensional travel for the feat just can't apply as a justifiable reason to reject this via that reasoning; even using Occam's Razor here just simplifies the case even moreso since the speed is being argued as warping when simple teleporting via Chaos Control in-universe is shown entirely different than what is presented along their linear flight movement towards Exception. Blinking between two physical points doesn't happen during as they near the spot they need to get to asap, whaddyaknow.

That out of the way; the entire premise is that getting to said location in their 3-D space having a lack of stars, galaxies, etc would be travelling past the uniform cluster of celestial objects at least ~46 billion lightyears in radius in a sphere from around their own Earth in a cosmological perspective regarding required distance and would matter if there is no evidence of non-physical travel or need of it in the first place, again pointed out above what is the case. We know what the size of a physical universe is as a minimum to our own one as far as we can see from their starting point and the most comparable cosmological model we get points to being a stated "universe" from their point on Earth, therefore that is what was used for the calc. The obvious evidence for their universe having "edges" in the physical matter sense is that the place they go to being a nigh black void for lack of a better term, nothing more nothing less given info wise supplements this case until we get the guidebook for the game including more information on this event and via ruling out dimensional travel. If we want to assume a non-uniform universe as a possible counterarguement for this; fine, but that goes equally heavily against standard assumptions of a universe cosmology there as well and makes less sense in a cosmological context. As I have pointed out prior to Cal about this random assumption of there being a dark spot in their outer space closeish to Earth, we can easily suffice to argue then that surrounding galaxies around their planet would be at least passed from their view starting from Earth as shown in numerous games and the same game the feat happens in and presume there is some random void in outer space past the galaxies surrounding and visible from their planet during said event and seen during gameplay, which would be at least within the lower bounds of hundreds of thousands of lightyears an eg intergalactic distance at a minimum crossed within seconds to reach that location in outer space going by the size of galaxies in our universe. Which is quantifiable and would work as another way to calculate this speed feat; although I am way more partial to the current calc for less cosmological contradictions than assuming non-uniformity of their universe than proposing there isn't when other parallel realities visited appear uniform at least on a galactic scale.

Anyway, I doubt this will get wrapped up with a concession on either side past what I said above and the guidebook for the game won't be available to us as translated until past the forum move. Can't really see much other progress on the thread so far so that's all I have to say.