Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Tbh I'm just interested in keeping profiles updated, I stopped caring about tiers awhile back plus I've got my own scaling that I follow off-site (tho posted it several pages back). I will say IDW Sonic for better and for worst is going to be a growing tumour, ticking time bomb for tier 2 (possibly tier 1) base form main continuity characters. Seriously having Sonic survive being in the epicentre of the shatterverse big bang in Prime be the same character that was saved from a building level explosion by Silver in IDW, is just a mess narratively speaking let alone scaling.

 

[JJSliderman]

Aren't they like...fire? Without the emeralds connection to emotional energy

They are equivalent to the chaos emeralds but, Blaze also wasn’t burning Blaze at the time, I feel like if she was then it wouldn’t have worked on her either. The Emeralds also weren’t exactly, activated fully per se.

I will say IDW Sonic for better and for worst is going to be a growing tumour, ticking time bomb for tier 2 (possibly tier 1) base form main continuity characters. Seriously having Sonic survive being in the epicentre of the shatterverse big bang in Prime be the same character that was saved from a building level explosion by Silver in IDW, is just a mess narratively speaking let alone scaling.

Agreed, considering what happened with Mario. Just not sure how to reconcile it.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Tbh I'm just interested in keeping profiles updated, I stopped caring about tiers awhile back plus I've got my own scaling that I follow off-site (tho posted it several pages back). I will say IDW Sonic for better and for worst is going to be a growing tumour, ticking time bomb for tier 2 (possibly tier 1) base form main continuity characters. Seriously having Sonic survive being in the epicentre of the shatterverse big bang in Prime be the same character that was saved from a building level explosion by Silver in IDW, is just a mess narratively speaking let alone scaling.

Ya... even in the context of prime I seriously doubt sonic actually felt like, a universe sized blast from that. It tore reality apart instead of destroying it, in the context of the narrative anyway

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Im all fairness, idw would be a tumor on 4-A base scaling too

 

[JJSliderman]

IDW’s contributions to the cosmology mean it’s really good for super forms still, ehhhh for base forms.

 

[Snek]

Im all fairness, idw would be a tumor on 4-A base scaling too

The IDW anti feats would be a problem even if Sonic was still High 6A.

 

[Omegabronic]

How do they get to 4-B from this though?

Multipliers

 

[Theuser789]

Aren't they like...fire? Without the emeralds connection to emotional energy

Nope. Sol Emeralds still work by emotional energy as seen in the end of the first Rush game.

 

[Omegabronic]

It is secondary canon.....it can do whatever it wants, the games always take precedence, Ian even said to ignore the contradictions if they go against the games

Tbh I'm just interested in keeping profiles updated, I stopped caring about tiers awhile back plus I've got my own scaling that I follow off-site (tho posted it several pages back). I will say IDW Sonic for better and for worst is going to be a growing tumour, ticking time bomb for tier 2 (possibly tier 1) base form main continuity characters. Seriously having Sonic survive being in the epicentre of the shatterverse big bang in Prime be the same character that was saved from a building level explosion by Silver in IDW, is just a mess narratively speaking let alone scaling.

 

[JJSliderman]

Nope. Sol Emeralds still work by emotional energy as seen in the end of the first Rush game.

Yeah, but the Emeralds weren’t really activated when Blaze was trying to stop the Egg Field. They were just in her pocket.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Yeah, but the Emeralds weren’t really activated when Blaze was trying to stop the Egg Field. They were just in her pocket.

They didn't help at all, so that doesn't work just for the Egg Field.

 

[JJSliderman]

So the accepted explanation is Sonic’s heart speech is purely symbolic? Because it does seem like the feelings received from others were fairly important, at least to him.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Because it does seem like the feelings received from others were fairly important, at least to him.

Their essences were retained inside the Chaos Emeralds themselves from before the world was warped from before the story began

 

[JJSliderman]

So the chaos emeralds did contain the positive feelings from others, and that’s what pushed Sonic into allowing him protection.
In a sense isn’t that kinda just, positive feelings winning out?

 

[Omegabronic]

So the accepted explanation is Sonic’s heart speech is purely symbolic? Because it does seem like the feelings received from others were fairly important, at least to him.

Yeah duh, they powered up the Emeralds to make him go Super, they are important.......because the Emeralds get powered by them, nothing beyond that

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I feel like someone will make a revision about this topic one day, but I'm not completely sure what it'll be about

 

[JJSliderman]

I feel like someone will make a revision about this topic one day, but I'm not completely sure what it'll be about

If it did happen it will prolly just be trying to remove super Sonic’s power null and replacing it with a light man weakness.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I'd like to point out intended emotions also make humans stronger-

 

[JJSliderman]

I guess the confusing thing is that Sonic brings up the power of positive feelings after he’s already transformed into super sonic and just got done saying how dangerous the PC clones are.

Which makes people think that the feelings themselves are what protected super sonic, as opposed to them just being a fuel for the emeralds and chaos energy being the solution for Otherworld.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I guess the confusing thing is that Sonic brings up the power of positive feelings after he’s already transformed into super sonic and just got done saying how dangerous the PC clones are.

Because they also charged it for the Super Sonic fight in the sense of each having a moment to give Sonic their Emeralds

Which makes people think that the feelings themselves are what protected super sonic, as opposed to them just being a fuel for the emeralds and chaos energy being the solution for Otherworld.

Well, that's your headcanon and that's cool

 

[JJSliderman]

Well, that's your headcanon and that's cool

Is it headcanon if Sonic directly says that the energy of Otherworld is just a sham and collection of energy, “nothing like the feelings received from everyone, whose essence remained the same even in an alternate world”

Like it seems like the feelings and essence are what’s compared to Otherworld here.

 

[Remus1998]

Ay so I found this thread about Infinite's character, it was pretty good

 

[MysticMania]

Too fanficy. Blaze had her Sol Emeralds and was still affected.

And, didn't Sonic and co. also have the Chaos Emeralds on hand and were still affected by the memory manipulation? So I don't think the Chaos Emeralds can passively negate Lightman, it might take a Super form specifically to do that? Sonic and Shadow used Chaos Control and it didn't have any inherent affect on what was going on.


But either way, it's interesting to think about, so thank you JJ.

 

[JJSliderman]

And, didn't Sonic and co. also have the Chaos Emeralds on hand and were still affected by the memory manipulation? So I don't think the Chaos Emeralds can passively negate Lightman, it might take a Super form specifically to do that? Sonic and Shadow used Chaos Control and it didn't have any inherent affect on what was going on.


But either way, it's interesting to think about, so thank you JJ.

Yeah, what I was thinking was that something with the power of a super form, that also weaponized positive emotion, could potentially counter the egg field.

 

[Alexander]

Now that i think about it... what power source does the Sol emeralds use?

 

[JJSliderman]

Prolly also chaos energy.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Was not notified on this thread for some reason...

Can't the Shatterverse be treated similarly to the macrocosms from Dragon Ball? Where even though they refer to it as the universe, it's a universe with multiple universe sized places contained within it.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

The Shatterverse is verbatim stated to be a multiverse. Idk why we're arguing about the statement from the Chaos Council being handed "the universe on a silver platter" when this is tertiary evidence at best. That alone is literally as blatant as it gets.

Not quite, "woke" culture did ruin a lot of things nowadays......but of coutse, exagerating to apply it to SONIC of all things is silly

It's been ruining all forms of media and even elections for a while now, so it's right to call it out, but the people calling Shadow Gens "woke" are fighting windmills and it's pathetic.

How do they get to 4-B from this though?

Any Chaos form weaker than Chaos 4 should not scale to that 4-B value. Chaos' profile is due for a major overhaul. Shake will make it happen eventually.

Tbh I'm just interested in keeping profiles updated, I stopped caring about tiers awhile back plus I've got my own scaling that I follow off-site (tho posted it several pages back). I will say IDW Sonic for better and for worst is going to be a growing tumour, ticking time bomb for tier 2 (possibly tier 1) base form main continuity characters. Seriously having Sonic survive being in the epicentre of the shatterverse big bang in Prime be the same character that was saved from a building level explosion by Silver in IDW, is just a mess narratively speaking let alone scaling.

Eh. It's secondary canon. Ian straight up said that anything in it that contradicts the games can be dismissed. Game Sonic continues to be consistantly tier 2 if not higher, so IDW won't threaten that.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

By the way, has anyone been working on King Boom Boo revisions since the most recent Tailstube? I did see someone bring up the fact that he is slept on in terms of hax, and now we know more about him as a character, too.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

Was not notified on this thread for some reason...

The Shatterverse is verbatim stated to be a multiverse. Idk why we're arguing about the statement from the Chaos Council being handed "the universe on a silver platter" when this is tertiary evidence at best. That alone is literally as blatant as it gets.

It's been ruining all forms of media and even elections for a while now, so it's right to call it out, but the people calling Shadow Gens "woke" are fighting windmills and it's pathetic.

Any Chaos form weaker than Chaos 4 should not scale to that 4-B value. Chaos' profile is due for a major overhaul. Shake will make it happen eventually.

Eh. It's secondary canon. Ian straight up said that anything in it that contradicts the games can be dismissed. Game Sonic continues to be consistantly tier 2 if not higher, so IDW won't threaten that.

Something something redacted something something schizophrenia.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Multipliers

Ok I read through it again, so to check if I'm right:
Chaos absorbed one Chaos emerald which scales to 0.4705445 Foe.
Each Emerald multiplies at least x2 on the base user so each time Chaos absorbs one he becomes x2 stronger.
Chaos 2 is x2 Chaos 1: 0.941089 Foe.
Chaos 3 is x2 Chaos 2: 1.882178 Foe.
Chaos 4 is x2 Chaos 3: 3.764356 Foe.
Yeah still lost

 

[JJSliderman]

There’s also 3 power cores, which multiply by another x8 (although admittedly base 2005 Shadow scaling because a promotional ad called him “stronger than before” is kinda weird)

 

[Peptocoptr27]

People here calling out "wokeness" on here makes me wonder if this website was secretly filled with chuds and I never realized. To be fair, I only really fully took the chud pill after getting into political garbage like a year ago. Then I took the schizo pill and transcended even the realm of chud.

Just looked up what a Chud is. You can think what you like of me, but the fact of the matter is that neither of us have any real idea of each other's beliefs and this is not the place to share them. I guess in that case, you can argue that I shared too much when it comes to the rare fear-mongering radically anti-woke response to Shadow Gens, so that's my bad if I did.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

Just looked up what a Chud is. You can think what you like of me, but the fact of the matter is that neither of us have any real idea of each other's beliefs and this is not the place to share them. I guess in that case, you can argue that I shared too much when it comes to the rare fear-mongering radically anti-woke response to Shadow Gens, so that's my bad if I did.

Woops yeah, that was just my schizophrenia kicking in lol. Lets not talk about this shit on here.

 

[Remus1998]

How large is the Eggman Empire in terms of total number of troops?

 

[Peptocoptr27]

 

[Ednaxel2]

King Boo without the Thwomp might struggle with Infinite

 

[JJSliderman]

surprisingly Infinite has no NPI whatsoever, at best his clones might

 

[Peptocoptr27]

surprisingly Infinite has no NPI whatsoever, at best his clones might

His clones should

 

[Omegabronic]

And, didn't Sonic and co. also have the Chaos Emeralds on hand and were still affected by the memory manipulation? So I don't think the Chaos Emeralds can passively negate Lightman, it might take a Super form specifically to do that? Sonic and Shadow used Chaos Control and it didn't have any inherent affect on what was going on.


But either way, it's interesting to think about, so thank you JJ.

a Chaos Emerald protects them from the innitial effect, the Eggfield bypassed that resistance

 

[Omegabronic]

Ok I read through it again, so to check if I'm right:
Chaos absorbed one Chaos emerald which scales to 0.4705445 Foe.
Each Emerald multiplies at least x2 on the base user so each time Chaos absorbs one he becomes x2 stronger.
Chaos 2 is x2 Chaos 1: 0.941089 Foe.
Chaos 3 is x2 Chaos 2: 1.882178 Foe.
Chaos 4 is x2 Chaos 3: 3.764356 Foe.
Yeah still lost

the base value is also added, so it is: "Chaos 4 = 1.882178 Foe(the power of 4x the feat of 1 Emerald x 4 Multipliers of 2(the multiplier each Emerald gives, as a massive lowball) which is 16x = 30.114848 Foe