Son Goku vs Demonbane

[Dragomer]

Lots of what you said in that comment can just be resumed as a bunch of buzzword that sound impressive but are actualy common as all hell.

changing laws of reality or whatever is just reality warping and most of your comments is just the character using said warping to do a lot of stuff that are already emcompassed by 'reality warping' and stuff like Lemuria are just attacks, no need to explain them in details, that would be like explaining what Goku does when he use a kamehameha in detail, that's useless and is just there to sound more impressive than it is.

Same for ignoring laws of physics, sound impressive when over explained but it's common and mostly meaningless, most work of fiction have their characters ignore physics, also if you ignore physics, stuff like 'absolute 0' become meaningless; especialy when you go 'below absolute 0' cause we have no idea if it would do anything since we have no reference for that kind of thing.

That's like when people over explain Arale and her gag power just to make it sound more impressive, it's technicaly true but it's just a desingenuous way to present them.

I mean yeah, Demonbane HAS impressive ability but how you are presenting them is just ridiculous.

 

[PairusDragonoid]

Snip

First, learn something about Demonbane (Well, atleast Zanma, Kishin have no Eng translation and the LN are bad ones...)

This is magick in Demonbane (some info).

This is how Mages imposes a new Law in reality

This is what the web page says about magic : http://www.demonbane.com/special2/words.html

Magick: Magick is the act of manipulating magical power/energy which encompasses all through own pure will. By borrowing the power of gods from different worlds, they can exercise this power, rewriting the laws of the world with their own imposed law, creating different miracles. To use it however, genuine Sorcerers require Grimoires, just like how scientist requires computers capable of high-speed calculations.

And there are more from Zanma, but i have no time right now and have all my scans...

This is not only "change reality" only, its manipulatin the concepts, the information itself, even exist a blog here about that. a battle between magicians are massive battles taking place on every scale, physically, mentally, spiritually, conceptually and beyond. With both sides try to subjugating their opponent to the Laws of their World.

About the Lemuria impact, IIRC in one route its state that have the law of obliveration (literal) and this is some examples, explain in details some abilities is good (special from a character no one knows), this its no the "the way you say it sounds incredible!!!" case, special when you bring the feats of that unknown character like Demonbane.

In Demonbane, ignoring the laws of physics, logic, common senses and more are "the bread of every day" in the literal way for magicians.

Yes, Demonbane has impresives abilities and some of them are ridiculous in the sense of broken AF (and this is from Zanma, whta about the non-translate Kishin Hishou Demonbane?).

I'm sorry if I'm presenting it as something ridiculously stupid, but that's the way it is.

 

[JackJoyce]

Sounds like some fancy stuff with no context whatsoever. Anyways Goku loses because he will get tired eventually dodging Demonbane's attacks, each of them can erase him from reality or do something worse. Demonbane's defense is inpenetrable and none of Goku's attacks would work instead get reflected back at him

 

[PairusDragonoid]

What context do you want to hear or read?

 

[Dragomer]

Snip

First, learn something about Demonbane (Well, atleast Zanma, Kishin have no Eng translation and the LN are bad ones...)
This is magick in Demonbane (some info).

This is how Mages imposes a new Law in reality

This is what the web page says about magic : http://www.demonbane.com/special2/words.html

Magick: Magick is the act of manipulating magical power/energy which encompasses all through own pure will. By borrowing the power of gods from different worlds, they can exercise this power, rewriting the laws of the world with their own imposed law, creating different miracles. To use it however, genuine Sorcerers require Grimoires, just like how scientist requires computers capable of high-speed calculations.

And there are more from Zanma, but i have no time right now and have all my scans...

This is not only "change reality" only, its manipulatin the concepts, the information itself, even exist a blog here about that. a battle between magicians are massive battles taking place on every scale, physically, mentally, spiritually, conceptually and beyond. With both sides try to subjugating their opponent to the Laws of their World.

About the Lemuria impact, IIRC in one route its state that have the law of obliveration (literal) and this is some examples, explain in details some abilities is good (special from a character no one knows), this its no the "the way you say it sounds incredible!!!" case, special when you bring the feats of that unknown character like Demonbane.

In Demonbane, ignoring the laws of physics, logic, common senses and more are "the bread of every day" in the literal way for magicians.

Yes, Demonbane has impresives abilities and some of them are ridiculous in the sense of broken AF (and this is from Zanma, whta about the non-translate Kishin Hishou Demonbane?).

I'm sorry if I'm presenting it as something ridiculously stupid, but that's the way it is.

Read my comment before saying pretentious stuff like that.

Cool, all your link just confirm what i said, it's reality warping and you're just over explaining it to make it sound unique and more impressive than it is.

Adding more scans won't change a thing, i already say you were technicaly true but presenting it in a desingenuous way to make it sound more unique and power than it is.

Once again, all you just said is encompassed in 'reality warping', stop overexplaining to sound cool.

Except that Lemuria basicaly has no more effect than Hakai (if even that cause it doesn't have a good track record and i don't even remember if there was a confirmed erasure), they basicaly have the same effect as Toppo's big ball of hakai but you're clearly trying very hard to make it sound unique and uniquely powerful as well as confusing.

And ignoring physics and reality is an every day occurance for most comics and anime character, you even have hight school settings that make it a point to break or ignore all of those once per episode, it's not unique, it's not as impressive as you try to make it sound and it's mostly meaningless.

No, that's not the way it is, that's a desingenuous argumentative ploy that tons of people use to overhype unknown series, Lionel Sluggs (childish nickname but i can't stop using it since i saw it in a rant once) even used it for GetBackers back in the day, if you went and described Goku's kamehameha and Toppo's hakai the same way, it would sound just as incredible.

 

[PairusDragonoid]

----Magic This art, once hidden in the darkness of history, came again into the open with the rebirth of alchemy Magic is the art of controlling everything that makes up the World All things in the Cosmos have a system By deciphering these systems, one can change the shape of the World Indeed- each system, each spell, is a universe in and of itself A Mage, therefore, is a creator of universes Science and alchemy have not exposed all secrets of Magic The deepest truths are allowed only to Mages, who have given their lives to darkness However, the fundamental principles have been revealed The smallest, indivisible element of any system Called 'magic power', this source of energy seems to come into being from the void itself Some call it mana, others call it ether, but modern alchemy knows it as 'Azathoth' The etymology of the word is unknow The person who named it is unknow There are countless theories Whatever the case, Mages are those who can observe, grasp, understand and shape the Azathoth And just as scientists need high-speed computers to help them perform calculations, Mages need something to help That is the purpose of grimoires And Daijuuji Kurou has obtained such a grimoire

Were is the part that its "only" Reality Warping? its not the "overexplaining to sound cool" excuse. in Demonbane, an user of Azathoth (Magick) can do this, its good to see that you understand the Magick in the series and how its works.

Comparing the Lemuria impact, an attack that has temperature, mass, gravity and infinite speed, that encloses you in a field to erase you from reality with everything that is in the field, which has the Law of Destruction with the Plus that in Demonbane, it is not only physical, mental and spiritual, but also at a conceptual level / informatio but there is logic with an atauqe (Hakai) that only damages at the physical, mental (?) and spiritual level is ridiculous, in the only thing that I can to say here is that the Hakai does not need a "contact" as with Demonbane (that if he requires it, I do not know if in Kishin he solves it)

Feats are posted, i hope to see the feats of Goku and not cheap excuses like "overexplaining to sound cool" or compare what I write with Lionel Suggs ... which is a very low hit.

 

[Dragomer]

Litteraly all of it is just reality warping once again and 'oh we don't know all about magic', how ******* impressive, guesse what other verse has that ? Harry Potter, see meaningless that part is ?

Yes, they can use reality warping, once again, you just tried to overexplain it to make a pretty mundane ability sound unique and cool.

Both erase you from existence, they do the same thing, by that logic i can say destruction energy is better than Lemuria because it also erase ki, which Lemuria doesn't erase, that's just trying to go into technicality to declare one ability over the other when both are clearly portrayed the same : as EE attack that leave nothing of the target.

Temperature, mass and gravity are meaningless when you ignore physics and when you reach EE levels in your attacks, once again, you're adding meaningless element to it to make it sound more impressive than it, that like talking about Goku's kamehameha having infinit heat it scale to the technique's pure AP which is technicaly on a level of infinity because that's what you need to reach even low 2-C.

I am not really interested in who would win here, i'm mostly commenting on how your way of presenting Demonbane's side is very desingenuous, I'm actualy even slightly on Demonbane's side here, i'm just very against your tactics here.

Not my fault if you're using the very same tactics he used, i could pull out one of his old post about GetBacker (if they aren't deleted) and you'd see they are almost the same as your post.

 

[PairusDragonoid]

Thank you for showing that you do not know anything about the work and that you do not understand what magic is in Demonbane with the comparison of Harry Potter or the knowledge that Lemuria Impact is and can do, especially compare myself to Lionel Suggs..., pathetic.

 

[The_Calaca]

The best way to solve this is this:

Pairus, besides Reality Warping what would you consider Demonbane's powers?

 

[PairusDragonoid]

The best way to solve this is this:
Pairus, besides Reality Warping what would you consider Demonbane's powers?

Apart from RW thing and what I read when Zanma Taisei played......

Flight (Shantak Wing), space travel, Homming attacks (Ithaqua Bullets can pursuit the target and hit in his vital points), energy attacks, spiritual attack (its normal for Magicians and his Deus Machinas to attack in this plane), dimensional attacks (See above), conceptual damage (Nature of the Magick (Azathoth) of the works and imposing Laws), thermal / fire / plasma or heat manipulation (heat like nucleous of the sun and beyond via Cthugha (Base weapons or God Beast bullets) and infinity by Lemuria Impact), Manipulating of Ice (Ithaqua and can go IIRC to Absolute 0 or Lower), energy manipulation (infinite energy Demonbane obtain by his heart, the Cor Leonis ), light manipulation, matter manipulation, crystal manipulation? (The Mirrors of Nitocris), information manipulation (The Nature of the Magick in Demonbane verse "Azathoth"), technological manipulation, Magic and Techno-Magic, (based on the management of information and the primary substance underlying binary) logic manipulation (The Nature of the Magick and other things, the magic of the Deus-machines is based on the complete disregard of three-dimensional logic, common sense, concepts of Euclidean geometry, cause-and-effect relationships, any laws of physics and reality IIRC), Void / Non-Existence manipulation (By information/Magick, there are a blog here that uses Kishin Hisou to explain this), space and time manipulation (Magick, Timaeus and Critas / Atlantis Strike and other things), gravity manipulations (infinite gravity; black holes ), barriers (Elder Sign, Mirror of Nitocris, Conceotual Barriers), aura (explosive, overwhelming, maybe others), eflection of attacks (Mirir of Nitocris), teleportation and probability manipulation (of oneself and others, in space and between dimensions, to any point of space and beyond it on the basis of complex probabilistic and quantum manipulations thanks to the Imaginary Expansion Catapult (there is a large explanation, but better an even shorter summary )), Duplcation (Mirror of Nitocris), invisibility (Mirror of Nitocris), illusions (The Tipes? Illusion imposing in to the space, holograms, make material to them, make illusion to become a part of reality or change it (another form of RW), maybe another one) (Mirror of Nitocris), huge size (It's a mech around 50 meters), immortality (Types? It's a mech, have a very long age/life spam and have Regenerationn), Regenerationn (type? Only in Late Game (Chapter 13 to up IIRC) can regenerate limbs if there are erased form reality (IIRC), possible beyond?), Acasuality (Nature of Magick, for Magicians and Mech, the exist outside Euclidean Geometry and World Logic), ESP (Extra Sensory Perception) (the ability to feel, to realize and analyze the laws of reality and the laws of magic. It can be expressed both in passive filtering of information, and in targeted information retrieval and analysis of certain objects. there are more but im very lazy ), Resistances of "all" natural and supernatural things/DMG, Summoning (Weapons and other things), Maybe more things that I don't remember and don't know about the LN and Kishin Hishou.

This is my opinion.

 

[Idol_of_Legend_and_Elimination]

Why isn't this closed yet? Or is this fair now?