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Some Isaac Revision

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First, the only thing right on the Isaac profile is his gender. Now starting....

Various things are wrong on Isaac profile. His name should be just "Isaac" and he shouldn't have separated keys just for alternative personalities. Maybe, only maybe, The Lost is a different character but hey, that's just a theory! Nevermind, Isaac shouldn't have the names of entire character list on different keys, could be just a explanation of Isaac having multiple personalities and each one being a different character on the game. His age is also bizarre, he have one key saying "Unknown" and another saying "Very Young (Is a kid)". He should just have written "Unknown (Is a young child)". Before we get on Powers and Abilities we need revise the keys, oh the keys....


"By Himself" and "With Every Item" is pretty confuse and controversial. First, what "By Himself" means? Without Mom's help? Without any of his items? If the definition of "By Himself" means "Without any item that Isaac doesn't start" it's wrong, his items are his and aren't any form of external help. Maybe "Emergency Contact" and "Broken Shovel" are external help (althrough I wouldn't say that Broken Shovel is a "help" anyway) but aside that, every one of items are his and just his. "By Himself" implies that he is getting some external help on the second key, but that isn't necessary true. About his second key.....I need to say, I don't know how got approved on the first place. Let's talk about this.


"With Every Item" is completly controversial. I will show how. Take two items, one is Soy Milk and Eve's Mascara one amplifies the firing rate but decreases the damage and another amplifies the damage but decreases the firing rate. How will you define the outcome of these two items combined? Will you add both items and take the result? Because "With Every Item" is basically taking the best parts of his abilities and removing the defects. On Isaac some items overrides others and get overridden by another. You can't just add both effects and say that's just how it works. Isaac secundary key is fundamentaly wrong and shouldn't be called the way is called. First, because Isaac is a permadeath game with semi-random map and items. Isaac can or not have some ability. He isn't a character that just stack up items and profit with that. Second, because his secundary key is literally a "Composite" with a different name. I have a suggestion but I need staff input before that.


Now about his "Powers and Abilities", there's various abilities missing or too vague. Take for example, "Invulnerability". How is someone supposed to know that Isaac have three different types of invulnerability and each one have completly different limits and conditions? I will list some examples of "vague" abilities and how misleading they can be.


Reality Warping and Data Manipulation: Isaac just bugs the sprites of the enemies and slow downs the music, with random tear upgrade. Just that.

Limited Absorption: He can absorb any type of item with The Void or The Melter. Doesn't states what he can absorb.

Power Mimicry: Literally where this come from?

Transformation: How works? He transforms on what? It's active or passive?

Sealing: I'm not even sure how this works.

Time Stop: He can't attack while the time is stopped.

Darkness Manipulation: Only works when he takes damage and can varie between items.


Now about missing abilities....

Non-Corporeal: Various items makes him a ghost and The Lost/The Soul is a ghost/soul respectively.

Self-Sustenance: All types, look at The Lost.

Immortality: He is supposed to have likely type 1 (The Lost is a soul and shouldn't age), Type 2 and Type 7 (??? and The Forgotten are undead and both have much more injuries than a normal human would withstand), Limited 4 (have various revive-inducing items and one always have a 50/50 chance of revive him) and Type 8 (Isaac's Heart makes him immortal and invulnerable while his heart still intact).

Anti Gravity : Self explanatory.

Gravity Manipulation: Tiny Planet.

Disease Manipulation: The Virus and Contagio.

Rage Power: Lusty Blood and Bloody Lust.

X-Ray Vision: Self explanatory.

Data Manipulation: While stated on his profile, it's written like was just by Dataminer while he have GB Bug and Undefined.

Aura: Succubus and Godhead.

And he also have this, but I'm unsure what is this.

For now, is this, maybe I will remember of one or another things to talk later.
 
I agree with most of this. Especially about how we should handle the "every item" since brimstone/mom's knife make 99% of the other items useless since they overide almost everything.
 
Judas' item should also give type 4 immortality, since he resurrected into Dark Judas (I'm not sure if it's Judas or Lazarus).
 
Both Lazarus and Dark Judas as well as nine lives, Guppy's Collar, 1UP mushroom and the cross item that ress you as blue baby.
 
Yeah, he has several ways to ressurect himself, I just wrote "Limited 4" because aside Guppy's Collar, he can't revive infininitely.
 
I don't think so. Like Chaos Card or Euthanasia is more about complete destruction. Void manipulation would be Void and it's not much useful on combat.
 
But it completely voids not just enemies but fires,the stone guys (whatever they are called), spike rocks, the stone heads that shoot at you, etc from existence.
 
So Zero called me out because i was knowledgeableand supporter of the verse, alright

I think it's mostly fine. Though, most composite pages just take the good of a thing placed into the profile, and bam! a new power with no weaknesses. Take a look at Composite Human, though i'm not sure if it applies to all composites. This is because you say Isaac's "second key" is "composite".

About that, what second key are you talking about? Perhaps i'm blind or something, but I only see his 9-A classification and no separation on P&A thing.

You should also call out Edwardtruong2006. He is a friend of mine and knowledgeable on this verse if my memory isn't betraying me.
 
I'm saying that Isaac second key is "composite with other name" because it's literally just adding his powers without the fact that some decrease his stats or the fact that some abilities can't be used together/overrides another.

There's another key after Statistics Amplifications, kinda easy miss because his P&A section is pretty long.

Thanks for the information. I would call him before since he always appears on Isaac battles but hesitated when I saw that he was not on the verse page.
 
Reality Warping and Data Manip - That's still RW and DM, no matter how minor

Power Mimicry - Blank Card and Placebo. Not the best use of it but it's still Power Mimicry.

Transformation - The Nail is the first one off the top of my head.

Sealing - Friendly Ball. You don't need to release the enemy.

For the new abilities

Aura - Isaac already has this

Gravity Manipulation - I'm iffy? It just makes his tears shoot weird, i doubt it's Isaac's gravitational pull or something

Disease Manip - That's fine

Non-Corporeal - Enemies can still damage Isaac, I don't think he's incorporeal

Self-Sustenance - Type 1 is a yes, unsure on the other ones.

Neutral on Immortality

For all items Isaac, Epic Fetus generally overrides everything in the game. Though I'm pretty sure the "overriding" stuff is game mechanics, just because he can shoot missiles and lasers doesn't mean Isaac can't cry
 
Also by technicality, it's possible to get an Isaac with every item

Steam Sale + Diplopa + Greed Mode

gg no re
 
Or just Greed Mode with D20.

Getting every item is 100% possible, but a lot of the items have anti synergy which is kinda problematic when making a composite profile.
 
I never said that wasn't RW and DM. Just that wasn't specified on profile. For Transformation, just was showing that was pretty vague but on Power Mimicry and Sealing I was legit confused. Thanks for explain.

I missed the fact that aura was on profile, sorry. About Gravity Manipulation, there's literally a tiny planet on Isaac's head and description says "orbiting tears". It's a reference for Sun gravitacional pull making the planets orbit it. About Non-Corporeal it's a fact that Isaac is just a soul, could be just enemies being able to Non-Physical Interaction or Gameplay Mechanics.


About overriding take Technology 2 and Lead Pencil for example. Both together makes Isaac unable of crying at all. There's other combinations that overiddes his abilities like Cursed Eye and Black Candle for example. Also mentioning the ones that increase and decrease stats.
 
Edward seems to make sense here.
 
I think i'm agreeing with Ed.

I'm also skeptical about Tiny Planet, i think it may actually be some kind of unconventional gravity manipulation due to the description.

Also, Chaos + Restock + Steam sale is easy game break.
 
Shouldn't Isaac resist Transmutation and Fear Manipulation since he defeated Ultra Greed and Mega Satan and generally speaking other status effects like Charm (Emphatic) and Poison etc.? Also what's the stance on the confusion status effect and the item "The Mind" essentially giving Isaac complete information of all rooms?
 
I don't see how defeating Mega Satan and Greed gives him those resistances. And the mind would be enhanced senses/information analysis, confusion would be status effect inducement.
 
Really? Pretty sure Reactive powerlevel is something tied to Battle and Blood Lust gives Isaac a power increase if he takes damage like Saiyans from DBZ (Zenkai Boost)
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
I think you can close this. I'm going to make a kinda minor CRT about Isaac later when I have time about missing stuff.
 
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