Small upgrade to FT-arc Vegito.

[Omegas03]

Could FT-arc Vegito get an "at least 3-A" rating?

-Vegito wasn't going all out against Zamasu, even in the anime

-Vegito and Zamasu were beyond Gowasu's understanding of Gods during their fight

-As if that wasn't enough, BASE Vegito in that arc due to fusion logic would already be > a SSBKK from the FT-arc, with his SSB being hilariously stronger than that. He's like the strongest 3-A on verse without actually becoming Low 2-C bc Infinite Zamasu scaling (probably besides Current SSG who's also only a SSJ multiplier from Low 2-C).

-(stupid Kefla argument coming), but going from the strongest of both fusees, Kefla can't be that far stronger than Vegito unless we say SSG Goku post UIO >>>>>>>> SSB Goku end of FT arc.

Don't want to cause a shitstorm with this, so i would like to see everyone's opinions. Ain't suggesting a Low 2-C rating, just an at least 3-A and maybe an possibly higher on top of it.

(I very well think Vegito Blue could be actually Low 2-C but he just lacks showings which is sad that's why I think an at least 3-A could suffice).

Please don't immediately close this thread, lol.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We only give At least to characters who are already 3-A if there's a possibly High 3-A or above. It doesn't matter how many digits in the multitudes above baseline; they are locked at 3-A unless they reach Infinity and beyond.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

DarkDragonMedeus is correct. Vegito would just be very far above baseline 3-A

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The only thing beyond 3-A is High 3-A and Tier 2; however, Vegito does not have enough substantial evidence to push him in the direction of either rating.

 

[LordTracer]

Like everyone has said before, you can’t be “At least 3-A” just by being a really strong 3-A.

Also that Kefla argument is just not it. It’s basically argument from incredulity.

 

[Omegas03]

Thing is that Vegito is not only an "really strong 3-A". He's literally the strongest 3-A in verse you can get without going Low 2-C. He was hilariously stronger than anything else pre UIO1 and only the lack of appeareances he had prevent him from Low 2-C.

EDIT: there is post uio2 ssj god goku who is 50x away from becoming low 2-C too.

 

[Omegas03]

(IIRC there was a synopsis that said Vegito was even toying with Fused Zamasu which could support my argument)

 

[KingTempest]

That doesn't prove anything. He could be a quintillion times above every other 3-A in the verse and still not get an "At least"

 

[LordTracer]

Thing is that Vegito is not only an "really strong 3-A". He's literally the strongest 3-A in verse you can get without going Low 2-C. He was hilariously stronger than anything else pre UIO1 and only the lack of appeareances he had prevent him from Low 2-C.

That still doesn’t warrant an At least. You can’t get an At least with 3-A without starting to dip into High 3-A, which Vegetto does not.

 

[Omegas03]

That doesn't prove anything. He could be a quintillion times above every other 3-A in the verse and still not get an "At least"

Current SSG Goku (3-A) with a x50 boost becomes Low 2-C (SSB), so that's kinda wrong .

Anyways I'll drop the argument bc most of my evidence can be just attributed to head canon. Eh, I tried.

 

[KingTempest]

Current SSG Goku (3-A) with a x50 boost becomes Low 2-C (SSB), so that's kinda wrong .

I don't even think we accept that

 

[Omegas03]

The ssj multiplier?

 

[KingTempest]

The ssj multiplier?

that on top of ssg

 

[Omegas03]

I thought it was as SSB is clearly just SSJ on top of God

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Super Saiyan God has an unquantifiable multiplier.

 

[LordTracer]

that on top of ssg

No, we do accept SSB as 50x SSG, going by the speed multipliers.

 

[TheFallenProfit]

Vegito was going all-out against Zamasu. That's why the Fusion ran out.

 

[Vietthai96]

Disagree, At least suggesting said character could be higher tier, which in Vegito case is either High 3-A or Low 2-C, which he has no evidences to support. And even if we stretch thing up, he still very serious in fighting against Fusion Zamasu, which even if he holding back, it is not a big holding back

 

[Omegas03]

Zamasu got manhandled the whole match, even resorting to an bulkish state and Vegetto was lol taunting him for being weak plus the synopsis says Vegetto was superior.

Vegetto overwhelmed Zamasu

 

[Vietthai96]

Zamasu got manhandled the whole match, even resorting to an bulkish state and Vegetto was lol taunting him for being weak plus the synopsis says Vegetto was superior.

Vegetto overwhelmed Zamasu

Even if he truly stomp Fusion Zamasu, he still just higher into 3-A, unless there is some small evidences point him at Infinite Zamasu, or Beerus. But well unfortunately, Goku did say something like if he has Senzu Beam he possibly can do something to IZ, but that claim is very vague to do anything

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm pretty sure that Vegito could be Low 2-C given how:

1) Infinite Zamasu's ki did not increase when he transformed. There's no evidence that it did and because they can sense God Ki, they would've noticed the increase. The only reason we even consider them Low 2-C is because of how we currently interpret the feat

2) Nothing narratively said IZ got any stronger, just that he gave up on his physical form to merge with the universe

3) Goku, Vegeta and Trunks were able to survive attacks from IZ, with Goku saying he might've had a chance to fight him if he'd be healed

4) The feat isn't even Low 2-C because of how timelimes work in Dragon Ball. To become Low 2-C, IZ must affect the past, present and future of his OWN timeline (aka, Trunks' timeline). Spreading momentarily into another timeline (and even then, not really since Zeno's erasure was only in Trunks' timeline het Zamasu was completely destroyed), doesn't mean it's Low 2-C because the main timeline isn't the past of Trunks' timeline anymore. Because of Trunks' time travel, the main timeline got separated from the future timeline meaning causality is no longer intact between the two timeline

That would mean there's no evidence that Zamasu affected the past or future in his own timeline

 

[Omegas03]

You arent even arguing Low 2-C Vegito though, you are arguing 3-A Infinite Zamasu

 

[Nierre]

Wait so how does a character get "At least" on their profile?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You arent even arguing Low 2-C Vegito though, you are arguing 3-A Infinite Zamasu

Hold on, hold on, hear him out.

Wait so how does a character get "At least" on their profile?

"At least" denotes that a character is, at minimum, their current tier but has the possibility to scale higher, albeit to an unknown degree. The Gods of Destruction, for example, are At least Low 2-C because two Gods can perform a 2-C together, meaning that, individually, they scale unquantifiably above baseline.

For a character to be At least 3-A, there would need to be evidence that they can possibly scale infinitely higher than their current tier, seeing as how the only things past 3-A are High 3-A and Tier 2.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

You arent even arguing Low 2-C Vegito though, you are arguing 3-A Infinite Zamasu

Yup. But considering how the wiki is with the ratings, I still support Low 2-C Vegito in case IZ being Low 2-C stays since again, nothing narratively says IZ got any stronger. It's only how the wiki interpert this feat that makes it Low 2-C

And for that, Vegito should also scale above that Zamasu. I actually agree with you on that

 

[Sus]

1) Infinite Zamasu's ki did not increase when he transformed. There's no evidence that it did and because they can sense God Ki, they would've noticed the increase. The only reason we even consider them Low 2-C is because of how we currently interpret the feat

2) Nothing narratively said IZ got any stronger, just that he gave up on his physical form to merge with the universe

3) Goku, Vegeta and Trunks were able to survive attacks from IZ, with Goku saying he might've had a chance to fight him if he'd be healed

Actually, thats kinda plausible

 

[Nierre]

I'm pretty sure that Vegito could be Low 2-C given how:

1) Infinite Zamasu's ki did not increase when he transformed. There's no evidence that it did and because they can sense God Ki, they would've noticed the increase. The only reason we even consider them Low 2-C is because of how we currently interpret the feat

2) Nothing narratively said IZ got any stronger, just that he gave up on his physical form to merge with the universe

3) Goku, Vegeta and Trunks were able to survive attacks from IZ, with Goku saying he might've had a chance to fight him if he'd be healed

4) The feat isn't even Low 2-C because of how timelimes work in Dragon Ball. To become Low 2-C, IZ must affect the past, present and future of his OWN timeline (aka, Trunks' timeline). Spreading momentarily into another timeline (and even then, not really since Zeno's erasure was only in Trunks' timeline het Zamasu was completely destroyed), doesn't mean it's Low 2-C because the main timeline isn't the past of Trunks' timeline anymore. Because of Trunks' time travel, the main timeline got separated from the future timeline meaning causality is no longer intact between the two timeline

That would mean there's no evidence that Zamasu affected the past or future in his own timeline

bump

 

[Sus]

Im neutral on the low 2C stuff but i agree that merged zamasu and infinite zamasu should scale to eachother

 

[AguilaR202]

Well a lot of the arguments for infinite Zamasu not scaling to his previous self are him being portrayed as much stronger than everyone else.

But generally speaking it makes not much sense since the only frame of reference for how strong he actually got relative to his previous form is him stomping characters he could’ve stomped as Fusion Zamasu anyways ( SS1 trunks , Base Goku and Vegeta)

Nothing suggests an in-universe power increase and most likely the power displayed by IZ is the result of him unleashing his power over a much larger AoE.

 

[Omegas03]

Mfw an Vegito upgrade thread becomes a Infinite Zamasu downgrade thread

 

[AguilaR202]

Zamasu isn’t getting downgraded, if he is causing affectations in the past of an alternate timeline and starting to occupy the space between timelines it is disingenuous to say he isn’t at least affecting all of the space time in a single universe of the the timeline he originated from when he is outright stated to merge with the universe.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Mfw an Vegito upgrade thread becomes a Infinite Zamasu downgrade thread

It's still an upgrade to Vegito though

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Zamasu isn’t getting downgraded, if he is causing affectations in the past of an alternate timeline and starting to occupy the space between timelines it is disingenuous to say he isn’t at least affecting all of the space time in a single universe of the the timeline he originated from when he is outright stated to merge with the universe.

There's no proof that Zamasu affected the past in his own universe. Just because he went to an alternate timeline (and even at that, not really because when Zeno erased him he git erased completely despite not touching the past timeline at all)

Because the past timeline is a different timeline altogether compared to Trunks' timeline, affecting it doesn't at all mean he affected the past in his own timeline. In order to become Low 2-C, there must be proof that Zamasu affected the timeline in Trunks' timeline, in which there's 0 evidence he did that

 

[AguilaR202]

What?

Parallel timelines are far more displaced relative to one another than any temporal point inside a single timeline, if he is affecting a parallel timeline’s past that means he is spreading his influence over two different axis, why do we need further proof of him affecting the future timelines past when he is already doing it to different timeline?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Just because Zamasu "affected" 2 timelines (and he really didn't, since when Zeno erased him, he was completely erased despite Zeno never touching the past timeline), doesn't mean he also affected time alongside them. Especially when there's no proof for it

You got to prove that he also affected the past of his own timeline or else he's not Tier 2. Even in the tiering system, a destruction of infinite universes without time or higher dimensions is only High 3-A

That's just how it works, I didn't make the rules. If you want Tier 2 you got to prove he affected the past of his own timeline

 

[AguilaR202]

Just because Zamasu "affected" 2 timelines (and he really didn't, since when Zeno erased him, he was completely erased despite Zeno never touching the past timeline), doesn't mean he also affected time alongside them. Especially when there's no proof for it

You got to prove that he also affected the past of his own timeline or else he's not Tier 2. Even in the tiering system, a destruction of infinite universes without time or higher dimensions is only High 3-A

That's just how it works, I didn't make the rules. If you want Tier 2 you got to prove he affected the past of his own timeline

Beerus outright freaking stated he is affecting the past you’re conflating the part where he merges with the universe and the part where he affects parallel space times, the reason he is low 2-C is because for him to do both things implies his universe merger has a space time element to it.

Him merging with a universe and the fact he affects the past as a side effect makes Low 2-C the natural interpretation of his universe merger which is only accepted to happen to future U7, hence why Zeno only needed to nuke the future to get rid of him.

Don’t try to bring site standards as if they helped your case, Zamasus rating has been upheld for several years and belongs to one of the better known vs franchises out there, so I’m not the least inclined to believe he somehow fails to meet those standards.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Beerus outright freaking stated he is affecting the past you’re conflating the part where he merges with the universe and the part where he affects parallel space times, the reason he is low 2-C is because for him to do both things implies his universe merger has a space time element to it.

This wouldn't help your case because the past timeline is not actually the past of Trunks' timeline, but rather a different timeline altogether, which only means he affected at most 2 spacetimes. And even then, it's unlikely because this is contradicted by Zeno erasing Zamasu completely despite never touching the present timeline as well

Him merging with a universe and the fact he affects the past as a side effect makes Low 2-C the natural interpretation of his universe merger which is only accepted to happen to future U7, hence why Zeno only needed to nuke the future to get rid of him.

The "past" he's affecting isn't the past of Trunks and Zamasu's timeline, but rather a separate timeline, as the two stopped being casually connected since Trunks time traveled to the past in the Android Saga

Don’t try to bring site standards as if they helped your case, Zamasus rating has been upheld for several years and belongs to one of the better known vs franchises out there, so I’m not the least inclined to believe he somehow fails to meet those standards.

Just because something existed for years doesn't mean it's right, and standards have changed overtime. And just because nobody touched it before now doesn't make it false

The site clearly says that destroying/affecting multiple universes without affecting time is not a Tier 2 feat, but rather 3-A/High 3-A

Zamasu affecting two universes is only 3-A without any proof that his merging also affected and was happening across time in his own timeline

 

[Sus]

Infinite zamasu scaling has always confused me