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so gintoki,katsura,and takasugi before yoshiwara in flame arc are weaker than nobume,sarutobi,tsukuyo and hyakka ??
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small town level ??
- Thread starter Kritoveris
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The Hyakka Depends As I've said before There feat could be an outlier for them so it's likely Gintoki and such could foddorize them
Nobume Sarutobi and Tsuyuko Yes They are stronger then gintoki Even if we dismiss scaling for Sarutobi and Tsuyuko Nobume should be stronger then gintoki due to directly scaling to Sugo who scaled to Later in the series Kagura
Nobume Sarutobi and Tsuyuko Yes They are stronger then gintoki Even if we dismiss scaling for Sarutobi and Tsuyuko Nobume should be stronger then gintoki due to directly scaling to Sugo who scaled to Later in the series Kagura
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- #43
yes they are stronger because you believe the weird,bad,and stupid scaling,i don't even think sorachi will agree with what you people thinking about joui 4 being really really weak
99% gintoki fans know gintoki in the joui war is a beast compare to many other new characters like tsukuyo,sarutobi,kondo,or hijikata,there's no need scaling or proof to know that,cause that's what sorachi made him for the series
you didn't believe that because you believe in scalings in this wiki ,which aren't always right,even believing the scaling is 100% true,because you believe anything in this wiki is true
i understand that some fans always want their fav verses more stronger than its actually look and don't get underestimate by other fans of other verse
99% gintoki fans know gintoki in the joui war is a beast compare to many other new characters like tsukuyo,sarutobi,kondo,or hijikata,there's no need scaling or proof to know that,cause that's what sorachi made him for the series
you didn't believe that because you believe in scalings in this wiki ,which aren't always right,even believing the scaling is 100% true,because you believe anything in this wiki is true
i understand that some fans always want their fav verses more stronger than its actually look and don't get underestimate by other fans of other verse
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You've yet to prove the scaling is Bad WOG <<<<<< On screne feats Even if Sorachi Said Nobody in gintama was above Building level it wouldn't be accepted here
Author intent <<<< On screen feats here
I Believe the scaling because I read the manga and found it agreeable I didn't Just blindly believe it because the wiki Said so And I don't agree with everything on this wiki
And oh my gosh are you actually trying to call me bias?
Author intent <<<< On screen feats here
I Believe the scaling because I read the manga and found it agreeable I didn't Just blindly believe it because the wiki Said so And I don't agree with everything on this wiki
And oh my gosh are you actually trying to call me bias?
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on screen feats ? then where's the screen feats to proof tsukuyo or sarutobi stronger than the 4 joui ,because she survived hosen blows or because she fought along side kagura and nobume ?? also, where's the feats for small town level AP for tsukuyo or sarutobi,you can't always using and believe the scaling from this,it's not always right everytime
its just weird when the character that supposed to be stronger look more weaker than supposed to be weaker character,and what makes you think the 4 joui can't survive hosen blows ? just because they never fight him
no,i don't think im actually trying to call you bias
also,gintoki's disciple could match pluto batou(another town level character),although he almost lost,but gintoki saved him and he survive that fight
so via scaling that guy(gintoki's disciple) must be stronger than gintoki in the joui war no ??
its just weird when the character that supposed to be stronger look more weaker than supposed to be weaker character,and what makes you think the 4 joui can't survive hosen blows ? just because they never fight him
no,i don't think im actually trying to call you bias
also,gintoki's disciple could match pluto batou(another town level character),although he almost lost,but gintoki saved him and he survive that fight
so via scaling that guy(gintoki's disciple) must be stronger than gintoki in the joui war no ??
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Well That and she Along with Nobume and Kagura beat a group of http://gintama.wikia.com/wiki/Tendoshu?useskin=oasis these people IE the people who Cought Past gintoki
Because Early series Gintoki Was pushing himself to the limit due to benizakura Nizo and Bonzi Who both are weaker Then Hosen Or even the beam he countered I linked earlier ... And Nizo is weaker Itou Who Well has A slightly higher City block feat (same Itou Hijikata beat)
How you phrased it Honestly to me seemed like you were saying I was bias
If your talking About The Fight in the Joui war No Pluto batou has no evidince of being town level Then unless your talking about a Diffrent instance?
Because Early series Gintoki Was pushing himself to the limit due to benizakura Nizo and Bonzi Who both are weaker Then Hosen Or even the beam he countered I linked earlier ... And Nizo is weaker Itou Who Well has A slightly higher City block feat (same Itou Hijikata beat)
How you phrased it Honestly to me seemed like you were saying I was bias
If your talking About The Fight in the Joui war No Pluto batou has no evidince of being town level Then unless your talking about a Diffrent instance?
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- #47
i don't read gintama manga that far,but when did they fight with Tendoshu ?? silver soul arc ?
Pluto Batou using his beam saber against the fat guy or gintoki's disciple,or are u going to say that's beam saber is weaker version than the one he used in rakuyo arc ??
and,i want you to answer this,how strong is Yoshida Shouyou ? is he weaker than many current characters because he's from the past ?? weaker than tsukuyo and sarutobi perhaps? that would be funny
Pluto Batou using his beam saber against the fat guy or gintoki's disciple,or are u going to say that's beam saber is weaker version than the one he used in rakuyo arc ??
and,i want you to answer this,how strong is Yoshida Shouyou ? is he weaker than many current characters because he's from the past ?? weaker than tsukuyo and sarutobi perhaps? that would be funny
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Courtesan of a Nation Arc that's when
Pluto batou Could still be physically weaker Back then and gotten stronger between then and now That would affect his Ap Regardless of what he Is using
we don't know what tier he is He didn't fight and hasn't had any present fights to gauge him We have the nizo fight for gintoki and Katsura
Pluto batou Could still be physically weaker Back then and gotten stronger between then and now That would affect his Ap Regardless of what he Is using
we don't know what tier he is He didn't fight and hasn't had any present fights to gauge him We have the nizo fight for gintoki and Katsura
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did you mean when they fought the monk-like fodders ?? naraku ?
even shinpachi can beat them in one vs one fight,you think those fodders are stronger than the 4 joui because they fought kagura,tsukuyo,nobume,and even though they got killed by the girls ?? there's no way the 4 of them weaker than shinpachi
i'm sure shouyou is strong even in the past,even saying something like this http://www4.mangafreak.net/Read1_Gintama_518_14 there's no way he is weaker than tsukuyo,sarutobi,shinpachi,or hyakka
and if batou really that weak in the past,why should he said something like this http://www4.mangafreak.net/Read1_Gintama_570_11 ??
even shinpachi can beat them in one vs one fight,you think those fodders are stronger than the 4 joui because they fought kagura,tsukuyo,nobume,and even though they got killed by the girls ?? there's no way the 4 of them weaker than shinpachi
i'm sure shouyou is strong even in the past,even saying something like this http://www4.mangafreak.net/Read1_Gintama_518_14 there's no way he is weaker than tsukuyo,sarutobi,shinpachi,or hyakka
and if batou really that weak in the past,why should he said something like this http://www4.mangafreak.net/Read1_Gintama_570_11 ??
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Yes the same monk like fodder that Captured gintoki in the past and even there teacher
I mean Shinpachi survived a Friken Small town level explosion And that's a direct feat so...
I never said that he was weaker I said we don't know and stop adding the Hyakka considering I've already just said they either very in Strenght or it was an outlier
Tell me which sounds more fair 2 city block characters who's Strenght is around the same Or one town level character twice as strong the other?
Him saying that doesn't mean he was not weaker in the past It just means he could have gotten far stronger OH also gintoki Stomps that dude quite easily so that statement is kinda moot
I mean Shinpachi survived a Friken Small town level explosion And that's a direct feat so...
I never said that he was weaker I said we don't know and stop adding the Hyakka considering I've already just said they either very in Strenght or it was an outlier
Tell me which sounds more fair 2 city block characters who's Strenght is around the same Or one town level character twice as strong the other?
Him saying that doesn't mean he was not weaker in the past It just means he could have gotten far stronger OH also gintoki Stomps that dude quite easily so that statement is kinda moot
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- #51
woaw,so you really think those fodder can match the 4 joui in fight huh ? shouyou didn't fight back when they captured him,you know that he can easily beat them when they tried to capture him if he wanted to,he just didn't want to give his students trouble
so what if shinpachi survive that 'small town level' explosion ? does that make his ap the same level as the explosion ? well,since you said dura = ap of course you will say it is the same level
Tell me which sounds more fair 2 city block characters who's Strenght is around the same Or one town level character twice as strong the other?who are you talking about ??
so every characters in the past supposed to be weaker than characters in the present,because there's no feats to support how strong they are them right ?? so scaling is not possible for them
so tsukuyo or sarutobi can possibly stomps pluto in the past if they use time machine to go back to the joui war era,or solos the 4 joui,or possibly match shouyou in a fight,since there's no feats to support how strong they are,correct ?
so what if shinpachi survive that 'small town level' explosion ? does that make his ap the same level as the explosion ? well,since you said dura = ap of course you will say it is the same level
Tell me which sounds more fair 2 city block characters who's Strenght is around the same Or one town level character twice as strong the other?who are you talking about ??
so every characters in the past supposed to be weaker than characters in the present,because there's no feats to support how strong they are them right ?? so scaling is not possible for them
so tsukuyo or sarutobi can possibly stomps pluto in the past if they use time machine to go back to the joui war era,or solos the 4 joui,or possibly match shouyou in a fight,since there's no feats to support how strong they are,correct ?
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I mean said Fodder was responds blue for gintokis And his friends capture And then Preoceeded to make him chose between his friends life or his teacher ... SO YEAH it sounds like fodder Did beat the Joui war veterans right then
Yes that should scale to his ap If he fought and hurt anybody who's challenged and hurt him Which he has. I should note Durability doesn't always equal AP but ap always equals durability otherwise the person would die doing the feats hence anybody who can damage Shinpachi seriously Should be small town level in ap and dura
I never said this I said "Gintokis teacher has no feats to scale him to so we don't know what teir he is while present gintoki Has struggling against Nizo And bonzi" so unless you want to argue past gintoki is Stronger then present Gintoki well yeah
Also Yes they should because again unless you want to argue past gintoki > present gintoki when he fought Nizo and bonzi well yeah
Yes that should scale to his ap If he fought and hurt anybody who's challenged and hurt him Which he has. I should note Durability doesn't always equal AP but ap always equals durability otherwise the person would die doing the feats hence anybody who can damage Shinpachi seriously Should be small town level in ap and dura
I never said this I said "Gintokis teacher has no feats to scale him to so we don't know what teir he is while present gintoki Has struggling against Nizo And bonzi" so unless you want to argue past gintoki is Stronger then present Gintoki well yeah
Also Yes they should because again unless you want to argue past gintoki > present gintoki when he fought Nizo and bonzi well yeah
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how did they actually capture them ?? by beating the 3 of them without much trouble ?? or waiting for them to get tired then captured all of them ? i think they actually decided to surrender because they know naraku had their sensei with them
also,their fighting skill is not that good if we compare them to gintoki,katsura,n takasugi fighting skill,even shinpachi is a better fighter than them,if they really that strong,that means shinsengumi n mawaringumi fodders are also stronger than the 4 joui,the naraku fodders are mcb or small town level no ?? but got killed or K'Oed by small tree falling on them is kinda ridiculuous http://www4.mangafreak.net/Read1_Gintama_521_9 ,or it is because kamui kicked the tree and the tree falling with the force of town level,that's funny
also,their fighting skill is not that good if we compare them to gintoki,katsura,n takasugi fighting skill,even shinpachi is a better fighter than them,if they really that strong,that means shinsengumi n mawaringumi fodders are also stronger than the 4 joui,the naraku fodders are mcb or small town level no ?? but got killed or K'Oed by small tree falling on them is kinda ridiculuous http://www4.mangafreak.net/Read1_Gintama_521_9 ,or it is because kamui kicked the tree and the tree falling with the force of town level,that's funny
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also,i never said past gintoki is stronger than present gintoki,i said in my reply above past gintoki is just little bit weaker than gintoki,but not weaker than tsukuyo or shinpachi or other fodder characters
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I think the 4 Joui would not surrender and went out fighting Especially Considering how One of them was struggling
First off both are skilled Ninja so I think they are plenty skilled Second off Tsuyuko's Master Foddorized Gintoki Third off fighting skill doesn't have anything to do with how strong they are. Fourth off Like I've said fodder can very in Strenght so it's possible some shinsengumi and mawaringimi fodder Are really weak I mean some Of these are the people who had trouble keeping up with Kagura and Sugo at the start of the series
And as for the falling tree? Honestly Just kinda seems like an outlier since Begining of seires fodder has wall level feats.
First off both are skilled Ninja so I think they are plenty skilled Second off Tsuyuko's Master Foddorized Gintoki Third off fighting skill doesn't have anything to do with how strong they are. Fourth off Like I've said fodder can very in Strenght so it's possible some shinsengumi and mawaringimi fodder Are really weak I mean some Of these are the people who had trouble keeping up with Kagura and Sugo at the start of the series
And as for the falling tree? Honestly Just kinda seems like an outlier since Begining of seires fodder has wall level feats.
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they will not surrender if they know naraku and tendoshou don't have their teacher with them,they should know if they try to fight them the naraku will 'kill' their teacher
yes,tsukuyo n sarutobi are skilled ninja,but for tsukuyo,does she already small town level even before yoshiwara arc,or she become that strong after yoshiwara arc because she fought hosen ?? then who will win,gintoki before yoshiwara vs tsukuyo before yoshiwara ??
youre right jiraia fodderized gintoki in their first fight,,but gintoki defeated him in second fight(although tsukuyo was the one who kill him),just like pluto fodderized gintoki in beginning of fight and then gintoki defeated him,so that statement is kinda moot
in gintama fighting skill is important,not just their strenght or speed,gintama is series about skilled badass samurai gintoki,via scaling you may will say madao is also stronger than past gintoki,but since he doesn't have fighting skill,he can't even killing fodder alien in second movie,,and u can say second movie is not not canon bla bla bla bla,but the characters are the same characters in anime series or manga,some of them even grew stronger,so its not hurt for using feats from that movie
yeah those shinsengumi and miwaringimi fodder can match naraku fodder who are stronger than the 4 joui
almost all fodder in gintama are wall level
yes,tsukuyo n sarutobi are skilled ninja,but for tsukuyo,does she already small town level even before yoshiwara arc,or she become that strong after yoshiwara arc because she fought hosen ?? then who will win,gintoki before yoshiwara vs tsukuyo before yoshiwara ??
youre right jiraia fodderized gintoki in their first fight,,but gintoki defeated him in second fight(although tsukuyo was the one who kill him),just like pluto fodderized gintoki in beginning of fight and then gintoki defeated him,so that statement is kinda moot
in gintama fighting skill is important,not just their strenght or speed,gintama is series about skilled badass samurai gintoki,via scaling you may will say madao is also stronger than past gintoki,but since he doesn't have fighting skill,he can't even killing fodder alien in second movie,,and u can say second movie is not not canon bla bla bla bla,but the characters are the same characters in anime series or manga,some of them even grew stronger,so its not hurt for using feats from that movie
yeah those shinsengumi and miwaringimi fodder can match naraku fodder who are stronger than the 4 joui
almost all fodder in gintama are wall level
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i don't think every characters in gintama including the fodder keep grow stronger for every chapter or arc or volume,gintama is not like many mainstream shounen series where the characters keep getting power up and become more stronger
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They knew the neraku had there teacher though And if they surrenders the neraku would have killed them
Tsuykuo Was introduced in the same arc she got a town level feat though
Diffrence is that Gintoki is heavily implied to have been Just an illusion (which I swear should be added to Gintokis profile as situational as the hax is) And that was all One fight Not two like jiraia and Gintoki's fight And even when gintoki took away Jiraias greatest asset it still took him Quite a few full Strenght blows to best Jiraia As opposed to the one with Pluto
Non canon things arnt accepted here So you can't use that as evidince
And again Naraku fodder still captured the four Joui vets
Also "I don't think characters in gintama get stronger" But we see growth in the feats
Tsuykuo Was introduced in the same arc she got a town level feat though
Diffrence is that Gintoki is heavily implied to have been Just an illusion (which I swear should be added to Gintokis profile as situational as the hax is) And that was all One fight Not two like jiraia and Gintoki's fight And even when gintoki took away Jiraias greatest asset it still took him Quite a few full Strenght blows to best Jiraia As opposed to the one with Pluto
Non canon things arnt accepted here So you can't use that as evidince
And again Naraku fodder still captured the four Joui vets
Also "I don't think characters in gintama get stronger" But we see growth in the feats
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lol,if they surrender they will still capture them,of course it will be more easier for them without having to fight them
wait ? now she is town level ?? she can't even hurting hosen and you said she's town level
what illusion are u talking about now ?? he lose the first fight because he was confuse by jiraia abilities,gintoki almost always losing a fight when he's not focus or concentrate or lost control,that's also happened in his fight against pluto
evidence of what ? about madao can't fight ? or about how important fighting skill in gintama ?? so u think fighting skill is not important in gintama ? when every top fighters are skilled at fighting
they captured them yes but how ?? did u have scans from the manga when naraku fodder beating 2 of them ?
"Also "I don't think characters in gintama get stronger" But we see growth in the feats" i said "i don't think EVERY characters in gintama get stronger"
what's the feats for Tsukuyo having 'town level' AP ? did she hurt someone equal to 'town level' characters in gintama,not just by scaling her to kagura,but real feats from her
wait ? now she is town level ?? she can't even hurting hosen and you said she's town level
what illusion are u talking about now ?? he lose the first fight because he was confuse by jiraia abilities,gintoki almost always losing a fight when he's not focus or concentrate or lost control,that's also happened in his fight against pluto
evidence of what ? about madao can't fight ? or about how important fighting skill in gintama ?? so u think fighting skill is not important in gintama ? when every top fighters are skilled at fighting
they captured them yes but how ?? did u have scans from the manga when naraku fodder beating 2 of them ?
"Also "I don't think characters in gintama get stronger" But we see growth in the feats" i said "i don't think EVERY characters in gintama get stronger"
what's the feats for Tsukuyo having 'town level' AP ? did she hurt someone equal to 'town level' characters in gintama,not just by scaling her to kagura,but real feats from her
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Yes but why Would they surrender Especially considering The leader of the neraku
I forgot to add the small
... Did you not see the Multiple gintokis during his Fight with Pluto The gintoki that Was Cut in half and vanished into Smoke? http://www4.mangafreak.net/Read1_Gintama_570_13 right here is the link by the way That's the illusion I'm talking about... This isn't the Only time this has happened When gintoki Bested Nizo the first time Gintoki made Nizo think he had cut off Gintoki's arm When actually Nizo's sword had been broken the Entire time ever since he first attacked gintoki like https://1manga.co/chapter/gintama/chapter-80 pages 11-13 by the way Jiraia Lost because he Gintoki took away his huge mobility advantage
That Madao can't fight Fighting skill does matter But ap also matters
Likely by fighting them until they couldn't fight anymore considering Every flash back Has them fighting and not even thinking of surrendering
Scaling is legitimate considering they where depicted as similar in every fight (plus Her And ayane and Kyubi being able to hold of the rest of the male cast except for Shinpachi in the Kintama arc mostly Focusing on Katsura here though) But even if it wasn't (hypothetical what if don't take it litterally) She should still be stronger Then Kondo Who again has an early seires city block level feat.
I forgot to add the small
... Did you not see the Multiple gintokis during his Fight with Pluto The gintoki that Was Cut in half and vanished into Smoke? http://www4.mangafreak.net/Read1_Gintama_570_13 right here is the link by the way That's the illusion I'm talking about... This isn't the Only time this has happened When gintoki Bested Nizo the first time Gintoki made Nizo think he had cut off Gintoki's arm When actually Nizo's sword had been broken the Entire time ever since he first attacked gintoki like https://1manga.co/chapter/gintama/chapter-80 pages 11-13 by the way Jiraia Lost because he Gintoki took away his huge mobility advantage
That Madao can't fight Fighting skill does matter But ap also matters
Likely by fighting them until they couldn't fight anymore considering Every flash back Has them fighting and not even thinking of surrendering
Scaling is legitimate considering they where depicted as similar in every fight (plus Her And ayane and Kyubi being able to hold of the rest of the male cast except for Shinpachi in the Kintama arc mostly Focusing on Katsura here though) But even if it wasn't (hypothetical what if don't take it litterally) She should still be stronger Then Kondo Who again has an early seires city block level feat.
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