Small Rakudai Downgrade

[Firephoenixearl]

When was it slower than is ikki? And what contradiction do we have that this proves that her other abilities are not lightning speed just ordering her abilities generate electromagnetism and use that very same ability do Ashley power most of her techniques including her ability to move physically at lightning speed use raikiri takemikazuchi and more. I'm pretty sure there's nothing that puts the question for lightning being actual lightning because do not forget that her ability is not to generate magical lightning her ability it is natural interference of lightning the very system dictates it is natural lightning.

But yeah yeah let's call it a day Merry Christmas

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump. Going back to the OP at hand, I don't mind the feat staying as a non-outlier, as again, it's legit, but if she had a hard time dodging and all, with a completely uncalced feat, we should scale them from baseline relativistic as opposed to going all the way with FTL. We don't normally do that, and because it was a beam, it's not like she dodged it up front.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I believe due to the time you forgot the feat and the reason it's SoL.

The beam was freezing "everything in her line of sight" it was the upgraded version of "freeze anything within a 3m radius of her focal point of view". So Stella had to move enough to leave her line of sight before the light reached her. With distance (which in this case would also be the distance light had to travel) increases the field of view, so no matter where they were in position, the distance for both light and the dodge from stella had to be comparable.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm not sure if we should be taking "everything in her line of sight" as literally as possible, given that means she's freezing everything within kilometer radii.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Eh? Why would she freeze everything within a km radius when the ring is like 100m in diameter?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Because she'd be freezing literally everything she sees. The ring, the walls, the audience, etc. Something tells me there's a forcefield protecting them though.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Kek, your intiuition is somehow spot on.

There is a forcefield to protect the audience from everything, so there would be nothing else to freeze as there is magic preventing anything past the 50m radius ring.

 

[Dragopentling]

So what's the general overall stance here with Rakudai speed revisions?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nothing should really change.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Well glad to see my intuition was right about the forcefield lol.

That said, only the beam is SoL. Nothing about the frost.

...did I say that already?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The frost is caused by the beam though, anything the light hits will be frozen. So she had to avoid the light to avoid the freeze.

It is also said by text when it says "she was hardpressed dodging an ability that coud reach the speed of light", so it was indeed light speed she was dodging.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Though i should remember to upgrade Stella to Ittou Shura Ikki at some point.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So is it a beam or is her state freezes things. If it's the beam then my point stands. She's have to be shooting kamehameha sized beams that Stella would be dodging if it froze only the things it touched and it was the size of her line of sight.

Ittou Shura level Stella would make the multipliers weird, if not this even more of an outlier, as she should be MFTL but could barely dodge Lightspeed.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No the ice follows her line of sight, it doesn't expand from some beam.

The light in Mikoto's eyes instantly turned to magic.

Along her line of sight, sword-like pillars of ice burst out along the ground as they crossed the space between her and Stella, as though she intended to freeze it all.

ÒÇîOnce again, Tsuruya goes on the offensive, launching attack after attack of Satin Ice at Stella, who for her part is staying out of her vision! The Crimson Princess' mobility, too, is top-notch! Yet, why is she dodging this desperately? Satin Ice was easy meat for Empress Dress previously!ÒÇì

ÒÇîIt's...not the same as before. The technique itself is several times stronger. See, as far as I know, the Icy Sneer is only able to freeze a spherical space about 3 meters in diameter at the focal point of her vision. But right now, she is freezing everything in sight. The power of her Noble Art is now on a whole new level. That she had been hiding such an ace up her sleeve...shocking. A Noble Art like this might just be able to freeze the Crimson Princess' flames!ÒÇì

And besides the entire point of LS dodging is pretty much outright stated that she was dodging LS:

Stella had been dodging with swift steps, but she was hard-pressed to continue dodging a Noble Art that could reach lightspeed. The more she dodged desperately, the more her situational awareness waned, till she was hemmed in on either side by the walls of ice created by Satin Ice.

As for her scaling to Ikki, don't worry cus this feat is volume 6. She only becomes comparable to Ikki mid way through volume 9.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I know she was dodging lighspeed. She was staying out of her sight. But well...she had to stay out her sight. If she was caught in her sight, she was frozen. She wasn't being looked at with the boosted Icy Sneer, because she was staying out of that ice queen's vision. The moment ice queen would get a look at her, Stella'd be frozen.

Furthermore, I'd keep my point about it not freezing everything she sees. Because it leaves walls of ice at the attack. Two glances and that's the entire stadium frozen.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So you're agreeing on the SoL stella then?

The entire stadium did get frozen though. Stella was literally stuck between walls of ice:

Stella had been dodging with swift steps, but she was hard-pressed to continue dodging a Noble Art that could reach lightspeed. The more she dodged desperately, the more her situational awareness waned, till she was hemmed in on either side by the walls of ice created by Satin Ice.

She run out of places to dodge to cus the whole stadium was frozen.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm agreeing on her staying outside of her field of vision, not that she dodged Icy Sneer every time. The technique is whatever she sees, so if she sees Stella at all, Stella is frozen.

"Once again, Tsuruya goes on the offensive, launching attack after attack of Satin Ice at Stella, who for her part is staying out of her vision!"

About her being trapped, it would've happened far sooner, given half the stadium is frozen with one glance.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

You don't need FTL to dodge SoL, so I agree with the slight downgrade.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It specifically says she was dodging light speed though. And she did dodge light speed before:

Sike Cal, you really want this to happen geez. Here is narration stating "the space between her and Stella was freezing" during stella's dodges:

Along her line of sight, sword-like pillars of ice burst out along the ground as they crossed the space between her and Stella, as though she intended to freeze it all.

So she could see stella, the attack just wouldn't reach her in time, considering the space between "her and stella" was getting frozen, but stella was fine.

Narration states that she was dodging lightspeed. It wouldn't be "dodging lightspeed" if it weren't light speed.

Here is Stella dodging the glare from Mikoto despite not being outside of her field of vision:

Following her intuition, she kicked off the ground with all her might, propelling herself forward without any pre-preparation, just as the place she had previously been standing was frozen.

"This power is…!"

There was only one person here who could cause all the moisture in the air to freeze, creating that blooming flower of ice.

"The Icy Sneer's Satin Ice…tch!"

There, in the direction to which Stella had felt that shiver, was the stoically still Mikoto Tsuruya.

And her eyes of death were alight with a flame of green-white magic, unlike anything Stella had seen from her previously

In other words she dodged her field of vision completely in 1 jump after Mikoto was aiming at her.

Here is Stella again reacting by attacking despite Mikoto already having her in her field of vision:

Locking on to Stella, cut off from all escape routes, the light of Absolute Zero burst forth.

But Stella was not one to go down without a fight.

"Haaaa!"

Shrouding Laevateinn in her Empress Dress, she created a blade of fire that hewed the gaze of Hades aside.

ÒÇîSh, She repelled it with her sword! As expected, the Crimson Princess will not go down so easily!ÒÇì

She had already locked on to stella, yet stella had more than enough time to react to that by swinging her sword around and using fire magic too as well as scream.

Look your idea of how this is playing out keeps on getting proven wrong by the text over and over. Especially when the text outright says "she was dodging lightspeed".

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Again, I know she's dodging lightspeed. And yeah, the first time she dodged was entirely her dodging. She's a light timer. I'm not doubting that. Only thing I'm doubting is her being FTL when it's more likely to be some level of relativistic.

The point I was trying to make is if she sees Stella, then the light had to have reached her eyes to process her. Obviously, that's not the case given like, she dodged at least two Icy Sneers, but you see what I'm getting at.

Also, if she created a giant ice flower, you sure that flower is the size of her field of vision?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

You don't need FTL to dodge lightspeed. From what distance was she dodging? If we don't know, we go for the safest option.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

She's not FTL for that. It's SoL for reason i already told you. The distance would be about the same. If it were dodging the previous form which she just needed to move 3m to dodge, fair enough, it would be relativistic, but getting outside of someone's line of sight before light reaches you. That's a pretty safe SoL.

The time it takes people to reach their eyes kind of gets forgotten about. Because later on when Ikki uses Oikage and becomes so fast people mistake his shadow for "not moving" somehow stella can still see Ikki at that point same for Edelweiss. So the "light reaching the eyes to process stuff" is something that rakudai for rather obvious reasons i guess, has shown to neglect. I can give you the feat if you don't believe me.

I mean...it was a giant ice flower.

 

[Antvasima]

You preferably need a calculation here.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Obviously, i am not one to avoid calculations in cases where it can be done, but it's impossible here. we cannnot calculate it, cus we would need to guess the distance, however it would be just about SoL in every case.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe "At least Relativistic, likely Speed of Light" would be an acceptable compromise then?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean...if we go like that then even FTL still in the very likely assumptions. So it would have to be something like:

"At leat Relativistic+, likely SoL, possibly FTL"

But it seems needlessly long for no apparent reason. That's why i decided to remove the possibility of Relativistic+ while agreeing to remove the possibility of "FTL". Because while maybe not exactly SoL in every case, it would be still in the same ball park, going for more or less the same. So it feels a lot smarter and eye pleasing to just say "About Speed of Light", instead of "She's at least relativistic+, but she's likely SoL, with a good chance of being FTL".

But i can agree if we're to put it as "Likely SoL" instead of simply "SoL".

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that might make sense. What do you think Cal?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Are we done here then?

 

[Antvasima]

I would prefer a reply from Cal first.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Am I good enough?

 

[Antvasima]

I prefer some kind of staff consensus.