ZawierJ
He/Him- 582
- 195
Hendrickson Blitz Gilthunder
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Small NNT Speed Upgrade
- Thread starter ZawierJ
- Start date
vsbattles.fandom.com
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We can't calc stack, so that is likely the only way it would work. It probably doesn't work anyway.
Demon_Lord18
He/Him- 1,057
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What is calculation stacking?
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Major outlier considering that he was outsped by Demon Mel in the next panel, and a blitz is very arguable because he was paralysed and retains the same deer in headlights stance/expression even afterwards.
Plus, even base Meliodas, Hendrickson and Gilthunder are equals, yet capable of perception blitzing each other at times, so it's weird for BoS.
As for something less ambiguous, I'd maybe go for this.
Plus, even base Meliodas, Hendrickson and Gilthunder are equals, yet capable of perception blitzing each other at times, so it's weird for BoS.
As for something less ambiguous, I'd maybe go for this.
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They ALL have canonical natural lightning speed reactions i don’t think it would be calc stacking
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Demon Mel Is far faster than gil tho
Idk if it’s just me but it looks like Gil was looking at Hendrikson’s starting point still
Meli went serious for the first time here before that Is the moment where he gets hit on purpose Gil was just not ready for it
Rage Power Is a Huge amp Also couldn’t We calc this blitz for Rage power Mel
Yeah why not it could be great taking mach 1282 réaction speed as a lowball
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Not by a factor of more than 10.
Hendy moved in a straight line towards Gil, so he'd literally be looking right in Hendrickson's direction regardless.
No he didn't. Meliodas' whole intention was just to gather information, which is why Gil blitzes him afterwards.
Also, Gil was the one blitzed in that panel I gave, not Meliodas, so I don't really see your point.
He literally fights Hendrickson equally right after.
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No but We aren’t arguing about a 10x difference but about the ability to blitz
He looks confused like if He didn’t grasp the mouvement
He went from taking a hit on purpose to « blitz » Gil when acting normal it’s not really inconsistant Gil was just not ready for his normal speed He then likely adapted
Hendrikson was getting ragdolled badly by a fatigued rage amped Meliodas He got blitzed consistantly throughout the fight
Rage
Blitz 1 & 2
Blitz 3 and domination
Blitz 4 and domination again
Blitz 5 + gets ragdolled
Rage fatigued Mel can consistantly blitz Mach 1282 perceptions
He can tag Gil without rage amps
Gray Hendi > Rage fatigued Meli > Gil
A blitz wouldn’t be an outlier imo
Couldn’t We calc the Red demon Hendrikson blitz ? Bet it could be good
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Which is literally the same thing in this context.
He looked almost exactly like that before and after what happened.
Honestly, I'm willing to accept this solution, and it's pretty consistent with numerous Ban vs. King fights and the Helbram discussions we had a while back. However, why wouldn't this apply to Gil in the Hendy situation, too? He was paralysed from fear and not expecting a direct attack on him personally.
Aside from that being heavily biased in favour of Meliodas' showings any pretty much ignoring what Hendy did, you literally see him keep up with and tag Meliodas in those scans, even one handed. To say that there's a substantial difference between them is pretty weird.
Also, it's definitely not a substantial amp, especially since he was heavily injured to the point where it happened in the middle of fighting ******* Ban.
I'm not saying it's an outlier, I'm actually saying the opposite, which is that blitzing is so common among relatively close characters at this stage (not later stages, mind you, hence why I support a Galand version) that calcs shouldn't be used here.
My argument is that 10x faster than Gilthunder is the outlier.
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Meliodas Blitzes Galand
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Why?
Yeah i’m talking about the fact that his eyes are not looking directly at the current place where Hendi Is
He expected the attack and shat himself when Hendi looked at him and smiled
There Is a substancial difference he got blitzed lots of times and could only land 1 hit that Meli used to land multiple hits
Still enough of an amp to dominate and blitz Hendi and Ban in this context Also had a rage/love amp
Okay fair ig
I don’t understand the 10x part ?
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Isn’t Galand already around Mach 15k With the new scaling chain this feat Is just a back up then or Is it an upgrade ?Meliodas Blitzes Galand
Also couldn’t We use the demon mark multiplier to double his perception
DM2 Sealed Meli going at the very limit of his demon powers was still slower than Galand which would mean Galand has canonical reactions that are at least around Mach 2564 (DM 1 has no stated multiplier so let’s not account for it)
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Because it results in a 10x upgrade via the calculation you're trying to push.
But, once again, it's literally the same direction.
That's true. I was mixing the panel order (left to right, instead of right to left). Still, though, you agreed with my blitzing point below anyway.
You literally just showed way more than 1 hit and far more clashes.
But definitely not a 10x amp.
He dominated neither of them, though, as literally the fights show (though I would say Hendrickson was generally outmatched). He even had to use Demon Mark against Ban.
It doesn't matter if it was rage/love, it was a few hundred points nonetheless.
See the final tally.
Hunter Fest does.
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The Low end Is not 10x
Mhmh
I think he was blitzed but the Low end Is The only consistant end
The only clean hit he got was the punch where Meli used the momentum to spin and cut him 3 times
The only other hit was while Meli was mid air and He bounced back and blitzed him again
Yeah definitely not
Ban had the rage amp too and a superior one to Meli going by your panels
He clearly outmatched Red demon Hendi
Those non linear hundreds of points can make significant differences + Strength lvl doesn’t correlate with speed iirc
Oh I didn’t pay attention
So Galand should have canonical reactions 4x > lightning timing ?
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The low-end should be fine, I guess. But it's technically lower than Demon Mark/Ash Hendrickson ratings.
Moderately. And he's way inferior normally.
Given Diane, King, etc, I beg to differ. Hundreds of points makes very little difference. It's like adding on a single Holy Knight.
Not sure about 4x for calculation purposes, but definitely 2x at least.
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Yeah it can be a back up
Not in speed
Idk if that’s just « adding on a single Holy Knight » we know rage amped people tends to multiply their stats by many times
Zel being able to outspeed Mael
Meliodas rage fueling the entire skelleton army up to sin lvl
Isolde going from being a dumb weak and goofy girl to being able to harm Meland
Tristan going balls deep into pretty much everything Meland could throw
Canonically we should use 4x it’s pretty obvious and it’s even a lowball
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I kinda see it like this:
Galand fought and reacted to Meli pushing his DM to it’s max output
Base Meli = canon lightning timer = Mach 1282
DM Meli = Mach 2564
DM2 Meli = Mach 5128 canon reactions (At least)
Meli pushing his DM to an almost Wrath state = higher
Galand scale to this Meliodas so we should use DM2 Meli’s reactions in the calc
We have this:
Galand fought and reacted to Meli pushing his DM to it’s max output
Base Meli = canon lightning timer = Mach 1282
DM Meli = Mach 2564
DM2 Meli = Mach 5128 canon reactions (At least)
Meli pushing his DM to an almost Wrath state = higher
Galand scale to this Meliodas so we should use DM2 Meli’s reactions in the calc
We have this:
As additional narrative evidence to back up the Mach 46k rating
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The scaling to other characters in the 3,000 to 4,000 range (including physical stats) is what it is.
He got almost matched and outsped later, so I think this is an instance that proves my point above about blitzing.
Nothing to do with any kind of amp. 2nd Mark Post-Revival was just far stronger than any of them to the point where his base form's casual finger flick downed King. Plus, they were hardly Sin level when you remember that Diane only did Drole's dance after she got possessed, and King was one-shotting them by the dozen.
She didn't use love bomb, which is explained more as her own magic power, prior. But, even if it was an amp in that vein, I don't see why it should apply to Mel and co here.
Tristan never fought Meland previously. He's much stronger, anyway, but none of these rage amps are even applicable.
To our knowledge, there is no DM2 for BoS. I'm not saying it's impossible, though.
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At the peak of his rage he was clearly superior he sliced through Mael and blitzed him then tried to go for King’s Pollen garden which is the reason why Mael could sneak behind him and slice him he was then heavily fatigued
His rage was what fueled them that’s a rage/negative energy amp
Here his rage can make their stats skyrocket even when divided to a whole army of hundreds of skelletons they where tanking Ban’s attacks after a few seconds
Rage/love are emotions that amp greatly one’s power
Tristan’s demon power correlate directly with his rage power he was pretty much knocked out by Meland too and overpowered them once enraged
Him pushing his demon mark to the limit and the demon mark taking almost all of his face should be an indication about it being > DM2 that’s litteraly the limit of what a demon mark can be while keeping control
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I'm going to stop responding to the rage amp stuff. It's no longer necessary.
Zeldris was even more fatigued later, and yet he was surviving Demon King's attacks with 1st Mark when nobody inside Ludos' Ark could. He shows no signs of fatigue here, and the only piece of evidence is King saying too, but that may not even refer to Zeldris (most likely, it's along the lines of 'you don't stand a chance. additionally, i'm nearing my limit').
This is just Meliodas generating negative energies, and them absorbing it because it's specifically miasma-based. There's nothing on Meliodas getting stronger, or the skeletons getting rage amps.
He blitzed him, they clashed, and Zel cut through his torso. I don't see why this constitutes a massive amp.
Zeldris was even more fatigued later, and yet he was surviving Demon King's attacks with 1st Mark when nobody inside Ludos' Ark could. He shows no signs of fatigue here, and the only piece of evidence is King saying too, but that may not even refer to Zeldris (most likely, it's along the lines of 'you don't stand a chance. additionally, i'm nearing my limit').
No, they were constantly absorbing it, and the energy was being converted before it went to them. They were getting stronger because there was more and more of it being fed into them, especially after they kept losing soldiers and more energy could be distributed between less skeletons, which is what happens to the last one.
This is just Meliodas generating negative energies, and them absorbing it because it's specifically miasma-based. There's nothing on Meliodas getting stronger, or the skeletons getting rage amps.
No he wasn't. Percy knocked him out in base form because Meland's power relies on confusing someone's sense of direction.
Yeah, but only when you take into account variations of Meliodas that actually have it. We don't know what said limit is, besides Wrath, in this scenario, especially since that limit isn't stated to have anything to do with power. In fact, Meliodas got dunked on by a heavily weakened Helbram with a fraction of 20 Holy Knight's power before he started to grow stronger. It's better to just go with the evidence that we can confirm with a decent amount of confidence.
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Sort of, but also not really.
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I don't see the point, but I'll ask DDM and Antvasima.
There is no mid-end.
@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus Characters in this series are lightning timers, with lightning being 440 km/s (barely over baseline MHS+). Would we use low- or high-end MHS+ perceptions for this calc?
There is no mid-end.
@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus Characters in this series are lightning timers, with lightning being 440 km/s (barely over baseline MHS+). Would we use low- or high-end MHS+ perceptions for this calc?
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Pretty sure our policy is explained here.
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Can't use that MHS+ value for the Gilthunder / Hendrickson calc. It's calc-stacking.
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Oh? Calc stacking is more so a rule if it's piggy backing off another characters' powerscaling calculation, it doesn't apply if being scaled to natural every day things or common projectile types. I haven't scrolled up to read the blog, just making a statement.
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Sure, but I wouldn't say this is an every day thing.
ZawierJ
He/Him- 582
- 195
- Thread starter
- #35
I thought so, too. But Gilthunder is an expert in controlling lightning, will it be a calc stack even if I only use the mhs value? If it will be calc stack again is there any problem to using superhuman perception speed?
And any staff can take a look to this thread please?
no one reviewed from the staffs I wrote to
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They scale to natural lightnings aka natural projeciles it should work
ZawierJ
He/Him- 582
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- Thread starter
- #37
The calculation I made it is calc stack. Gilthunder's control of lightning does not give mhs+ perception speed. It gives mhs, so if we use mhs perception speed, I think there will be no calc stack. If The staffs agree that i will remake it. Or i will use superhuman perception speed.
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It isn’t calc stacking scaling to people that are canonical lightning timers give MH+ reactions (Mach 1282)
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Unless the figure for their reaction time is provided for by the manga itself, then it is calc stacking.
Technically it's currently just hiding the necessary calculation as it is possible to calc their "lightning timing" in the manga.
