Small DB manga upgrade

[Da3ggman]

Yeah, this thread already has enough votes, just give it a few hours for grace and all that and we can end this clown show.

Edit: Nvm, didn’t see @Nullflowerblush counter argument; that should be addressed before proceeding, or at least contact the staff to look over it before casting their vote again.

 

[TiltedFN]

Even if the TV anime does accurately adapt the original scene in an animated format, why does that even important? Why is the TV anime even being considered in the first place, given how separate the original manga and its anime adaptation is? Is the TV anime a secondary canon, expanding upon the worldview of the original manga in ways which Toriyama could not when first creating Dragon Ball? Was Toriyama involved in the animation production of the scene? Did he supervise the storyboards or personally insure the key artists, and the animators and animation directors, the editors, etc. faithfully replicated what he depicted when he first illustrated the manga?

If not, then why is the fact that the depiction of the moon's destruction across the original manga and TV anime are, from your perspective, virtually identical even relevant? Not a single site rule suggests an external adaptation being similar enough to its source material is nearly enough to warrant using the former to further inform about the latter; and the precedent set by previous threads with similar concepts, like "Chainsaw Man: Anime Canonicity", "TYBW Anime is Canon", and even "To be canon or not to be that is the question.A Dragon ball Super revision", is that to be accepted as a secondary canon, the work in question has to: (1) be explicitly stated to be faithful to its source material, (2) directly involve the original creator or their input, (3) be explicitly described as a secondary alternative to the source material, either expanding upon or reinventing the source material in ways approved or even supervised by the original creator.

The TV anime's depiction of the moon's destruction is simply Toei Animation's interpretation of Toriyama's original manga. Why should Toei Animation's interpretation be considered when discussing, analyzing, and indexing Toriyama's original manga? The Genocide of the Saiyans looked pretty similar across all of its various adaptations and depictions, but we have still only accepted the depictions present in Super and Super: Broly in indexing the original manga's Frieza because they were the only depictions canonical to said profile. Can we also start looking to games like Xenoverse or the Budokai series for different perspectives on different feats, given they look similar enough, then?

You wrote all of this for absolutely no reason. Anyways, toriyama literally recommended the anime for viewers to watch. The anime depicting the moon's explosion adapted from toriyama's manga 1:1 IS relevant since it means there is no difference between what happened on panel, and on screen, besides time frame of course which was hard to determine in the manga, but was still very fast. The calc is extremely faithful and a lowball at that. I don't understand why this is so contentions. You just asked why it's important that the anime accurately adapts the original scene, yet you're still confused why we're using this, hilarious, truly. And like I mentioned before, we use the anime's time frame of the kamehameha to determine it's speed when roshi fired it off, it's literally fine.

Is the TV anime a secondary canon, expanding upon the worldview of the original manga in ways which Toriyama could not when first creating Dragon Ball?

Why are you even asking this? This is completely irrelevant to the scene we want to use, because in this case, it's the same thing, just animated to give us a better insight, panel for panel.

When the thread was first created, I was thinking about interjecting with supplementary excerpts suggesting that, in the main canon, the moon was blasted apart (吹っ飛ばす futtobasu, "to blow up" or "to blast off"), regardless of whether the TV anime's depiction was valid for interpretation and seeing where that takes the discussion, but then I suddenly did not feel like it.

Looking at this, to me it seems like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. It literally says the moon was blown away, like what happened on panel, then what was put into an animated format, so toei's interpretation is just something that already existed in the original manga.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Anyways, toriyama literally recommended the anime for viewers to watch.

The only quasi-legitimate piece of evidence you could use to argue for your stance, and you did not source anything.

Again, the TV anime's depiction being "extremely faithful" to and "adapted from Toriyama's manga 1:1" from your perspective has not been enough to be considered valid, evidently; again, several previous threads have had Administrators, Thread Moderators, and Super Moderators establish precedents which invalidate your stance.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Again, the TV anime's depiction being "extremely faithful" to and "adapted from Toriyama's manga 1:1" from your perspective has not been enough to be considered valid, evidently; again, several previous threads have had Administrators, Thread Moderators, and Super Moderators establish precedents which invalidate your stance.

Practically every other Manga verse is allowed to use the Anime timeframes, since ya know, they'd always be more concrete than just guessing it.
Really only DB has been an exception to this rule.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Practically every other Manga verse is allowed to use the Anime timeframes, since ya know, they'd always be more concrete than just guessing it.
Really only DB has been an exception to this rule.

Playing Devil's advocate, let's say, yes, manga can refer to anime adaptations for the sake of extrapolating time-frames, given the medium of comic books is incompatible with Cinematic Time. Firstly, the page for Cinematic Time firmly establishes the official precedent that, if a time-frame used in a calculation for a non-static source material cannot be accurately determined, then Cinematic Time gathered from its audiovisual counterpart and/or adaptation can be used in its place. Secondly, extrapolating Cinematic Time for the purposes of calculating the speed of the Kamehameha traveling to the moon from Earth and assuming the nature of the moon's destruction (i.e., the scope and spread of its destruction, the speed at which the moon was blown apart, etc.) is identical across the original manga and the TV anime based upon the opinion that the two mediums depict the event in "identical" or "1:1" ways are completely different.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Practically every other Manga verse is allowed to use the Anime timeframes, since ya know, they'd always be more concrete than just guessing it.
Really only DB has been an exception to this rule.

No not every verse gets allowed to use this, Naruto doesn’t use the anime SPCT calc even tho it provides a timeframe despite the feat in question being uncontradicted


the manga feat is just not as strong as the Toei interpretation of it
Rocks blown out in the manga ≠ rocks blown out enough to traverse the whole radius
That’s all

 

[TiltedFN]

The only quasi-legitimate piece of evidence you could use to argue for your stance, and you did not source anything.

Again, the TV anime's depiction being "extremely faithful" to and "adapted from Toriyama's manga 1:1" from your perspective has not been enough to be considered valid, evidently; again, several previous threads have had Administrators, Thread Moderators, and Super Moderators establish precedents which invalidate your stance.

It's not just from my perspective lmao, it's literally just the way it was animated that shows us it's 1:1. And we aren't even assuming the nature of the moon's destruction. The entire point is that is was a violent explosion that propelled the fragments of the moon outwards, which btw, if you still don't get it, is shown and stated in the manga. Hence it being "blown away", and shown to be the case via the panels.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Using the GBE of the moon is perfectly acceptable. Neither the original manga nor any of the supplementary materials derived from said manga provide enough visual—whether explicit or implicit—or textual evidence to justify using anything but the GBE; the ongoing thread suggests that, in the original manga, the energy from Roshi's Kamehameha launched the mass of the moon across space at high speeds, thus justifying the use of the TV anime's depiction, but the only information the original manga and supplementary material derived from said manga is: (1) Roshi blew the moon up, and (2) by the next page, the entire mass of the moon was no longer visible from Earth.

if you still don't get it, is shown and stated in the manga. Hence it being "blown away", and shown to be the case via the panels.

Yes, the moon is destroyed and was "blown up" or "blasted away". Gravitational binding energy is the minimum energy required to "completely disperse a celestial body", to dispel the gravitational forces maintaining the shape of the celestial body by holding its mass together. When a celestial body is "blown up", evidently, the default is to use is GBE because the GBE fulfills the standard conditions of the destruction of the celestial body; whereas the use of kinetic energy requires literally any implicit or explicit evidence suggesting the moon's mass was launched.

 

[TiltedFN]

Using the GBE of the moon is perfectly acceptable. Neither the original manga nor any of the supplementary materials derived from said manga provide enough visual—whether explicit or implicit—or textual evidence to justify using anything but the GBE; the ongoing thread suggests that, in the original manga, the energy from Roshi's Kamehameha launched the mass of the moon across space at high speeds, thus justifying the use of the TV anime's depiction, but the only information the original manga and supplementary material derived from said manga is: (1) Roshi blew the moon up, and (2) by the next page, the entire mass of the moon was no longer visible from Earth.

No it's not because it's downplay to just use the GBE of the moon. Saying blowing the moon into pieces resulting in the matter being pushed out in a violent explosion and saying JUST using the GBE is fine is dumb. Not when we have a perfectly acceptable calc available to use in a 1:1 anime scene. And no, both the manga and the anime displayed that the moon blew up, and violently expelled the fragments, and both showed that it was gone afterwards.

Yes, the moon is destroyed and was "blown up" or "blasted away". Gravitational binding energy is the minimum energy required to "completely disperse a celestial body", to dispel the gravitational forces maintaining the shape of the celestial body by holding its mass together. When a celestial body is "blown up", evidently, the default is to use is GBE because the GBE fulfills the standard conditions of the destruction of the celestial body; whereas the use of kinetic energy requires literally any implicit or explicit evidence suggesting the moon's mass was launched.

Only using the GBE when a character performs a feat, is acceptable when there is no visual of it or it's extremely difficult, or impossible to calc. And then you realize we DO have a visual of it in the manga, but it's hard to determine the time frame, despite it obviously being very quick, likely quicker than the anime if we're being real, which would get higher results. But the point is, the anime makes it much simpler to determine the magnitude of roshi's feat because we have that time frame. And besides being animated vs still panels, there is no difference. By using the anime, we literally get more accurate results using a faithful calc that makes use of a very faithful scene to the source material, that's all there is to it really.

 

[TiltedFN]

I'm not gonna continue this useless back and forth, I've already made my stance clear.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

See my previous posts.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Grace has passed, has it not?

 

[TiltedFN]

Grace has passed, has it not?

Yes, this has been accepted

 

[TheTenno07]

This was finally accepted

 

[StarShooter80]

Yes, this has been accepted

I updated my blog so if anyone wants to update the profiles with the proper statistic values they can go ahead

 

[AwkguyDB]

Good work fellas let’s apply and close up shop

 

[StarShooter80]

Good work fellas let’s apply and close up shop

I'm doing it rn anyways

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

What about using this calc: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Dragon_Ball's_Moon_resized

Also, if the anime version of the Moon feat is being used, what is the point of Goku having an anime version profile?

 

[TiltedFN]

What about using this calc: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Dragon_Ball's_Moon_resized

Also, if the anime version of the Moon feat is being used, what is the point of Goku having an anime version profile?

This has been accepted already, we're just applying changes.

 

[MannyQ361]

Given this was accepted, would the calc for Piccolo's moon bust in the anime work for a value for Beginning of Z Goku and Piccolo?
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Toeiverse_Piccolo_feats#Feat_1

 

[TiltedFN]

This thread can be closed the now, the changes have been made.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Given this was accepted, would the calc for Piccolo's moon bust in the anime work for a value for Beginning of Z Goku and Piccolo?
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Toeiverse_Piccolo_feats#Feat_1

This is a different feat that should be discussed on another thread, especially given this one has already been accepted and applied