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Skibidi Toilet CRT

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SJG13673 said:
Both look good. Titans and G-Toilet should upscale from rammings since they dealt far more damage to each other, so at least Town level should be guaranteed especially with scientist calc soon
Click to expand...
Well, G-Toilet was still taking damage from the attacks, and it would be a 1.3x diffrence from baseline Town level, which is decently high for an upscale. I think leaving it at this or putting an "At least Small Town level+" should be fine until the scientist calc
 
If nobody has any further objections, I'll add the changes later today and once I get the laser calculation down, I'll add that in too
 
ThePrimalHunter said:
If nobody has any further objections, I'll add the changes later today and once I get the laser calculation down, I'll add that in too
Click to expand...
I'd at first get all the needed calcs done at first and wait until Ep 74 releases, since it may or may not introduce new feats or abilities, to not change things twice
 
SJG13673 said:
Eh, not feeling it tbh, calculating Energy is better in my opinion
Click to expand...
Joules... are energy though

The problem is, trying to calculate the energy just by looking at the beams won't happen. We don't know for sure if the beams are plasma, or some other form of energy like electricity or light or something. All we know is that they're lasers, and lasers can have vastley diffrent energy outputs for their beams. With this calc, we actually know how much destruction the beams can cause rather than just guess what the beam is made out of and hope that it's right. This is also consistant with the other showings from mid-tier characters, so in the end it works better than the previous attempted energy output calcs which have wild inconsistancies, such as assuming the mass of water, using plasma in a KE calc, or using one set number for plasma's energy density, even though it varies massivley depending on a hell of a lot of factors. As stated here, just using the energy required to destroy the door is probably best. We know that the beams are at least of this value, it's consistant with other feats the mid-tiers have done, and it saves us the trouble of trying to find out what the energy beams are made of, assuming that the beams are even made of something that's real

Heck, in that same post you said that the beams don't behave like plasma, so we shouldn't assume that it is
SJG13673 said:
Btw, what do you use to pixelscale? I want to try it as well, if it's available for phones
Click to expand...

Online Ruler | On screen pixel image ruler

Online on screen pixel image ruler.
www.rapidtables.com

I find that this one works pretty well for desktop, though idk how well it works for mobile
 
ThePrimalHunter said:
Heck, in that same post you said that the beams don't behave like plasma, so we shouldn't assume that it is
Click to expand...
I mean, I did changed my mind tho, and I didn't say that, I just said to Diamond why Luzifer decided to pick water density, also Diamond didn't used it for K.E, as he said that we can't do that with it, and assuming it's plasma is the safest bet I would imagine, leaving it as an optional version of that calc I think kinda works, I will try to figure it out until next episode releases.
 
SJG13673 said:
Actually, will roll with 8-B mid tiers right now, tho I see ways of getting High tiers to 7-C
Click to expand...
We already talked about earlier how that's too big of an upscale. All of your other changes seem fine, but they should just be Low 7-C+

I'll make those changes, as well as fix a few small technical errors
 
ThePrimalHunter said:
We already talked about earlier how that's too big of an upscale. All of your other changes seem fine, but they should just be Low 7-C+

I'll make those changes, as well as fix a few small technical errors
Click to expand...
Fine... Juggernaut at bare minimum tho should likely have "Likely Town level" to him
 
Kinda (read: very) late to this but:
SJG13673 said:
Aight, decided to reduce the PSI in Toilets tanking explosion calc and got those results, looks pretty nice.
Click to expand...
Why 6 and 9 PSI specifically? Using the explosion being able to kill characters (Whose stats then come from scaling above said explosion) seems really strange, and the only damage we see from the explosion itself is a building falling over, which fits most with either 3 or 5 psi (Depending on if you consider the building that was knocked over a "residential building") a 9 PSI explosion would have chunked the building, not just toppled it.

Also, on the subject of scaling MHS+ warps to reaction speed, just being able to accurately stop at your location is specifically listed on the speed page as not typically qualifying:

"Simply being able to stop accurately at the target destination does typically not qualify, as it can be spotted from a large distance to make preparations to stop or the character could even slow down before reaching the destination, assuming we only know the average speed with which they moved."

It should probably just be travel speed
 
Soupywolf5 said:
Also, on the subject of scaling MHS+ warps to reaction speed, just being able to accurately stop at your location is specifically listed on the speed page as not typically qualifying:
Click to expand...
Assailant in this clip pretty blatantly stopped by going from 100 to 0 instantly, also I doubt you could see it normally by moving at Mach 2500-5060, speed that is faster than lightning

Soupywolf5 said:
Why 6 and 9 PSI specifically? Using the explosion being able to kill characters (Whose stats then come from scaling above said explosion) seems really strange, and the only damage we see from the explosion itself is a building falling over, which fits most with either 3 or 5 psi (Depending on if you consider the building that was knocked over a "residential building") a 9 PSI explosion would have chunked the building, not just toppled it
Click to expand...
And on that, I say it's still more or less applicable, because there is listed instances of characters surviving comparable stuff, Hunter I think agrees so it should be fine
 
SJG13673 said:
Assailant in this clip pretty blatantly stopped by going from 100 to 0 instantly, also I doubt you could see it normally by moving at Mach 2500-5060, speed that is faster than lightning
Click to expand...
Instantly from our perspective, but for all we know the dude could have slowed down in advance at the end. The degree of the travel speed doesn't really matter, the page talks about flight/travel to reaction speed for MFTL+ space travel and being able to stop accurately doesn't scale to reaction speed there either, none of the warpers have any of the listed feats of doing things like dodging sudden obstacles while warping, so their reaction speed shouldn't scale
SJG13673 said:
And on that, I say it's still more or less applicable, because there is listed instances of characters surviving comparable stuff, Hunter I think agrees so it should be fine
Click to expand...
Characters scaling to other things doesn't change that the explosion just doesn't show off destruction consistent with a 6 or 9 psi blast
 
Soupywolf5 said:
Instantly from our perspective, but for all we know the dude could have slowed down in advance at the end. The degree of the travel speed doesn't really matter, the page talks about flight/travel to reaction speed for MFTL+ space travel and being able to stop accurately doesn't scale to reaction speed there either, none of the warpers have any of the listed feats of doing things like dodging sudden obstacles while warping, so their reaction speed shouldn't scale

Characters scaling to other things doesn't change that the explosion just doesn't show off destruction consistent with a 6 or 9 psi blast
Click to expand...
Well, in that case I am at most willing to nerf speed to "Hypersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic+" and 5 PSI, but we will see what Episode 74 brings to the table
 
I don't think their reaction speed should scale period. The characters who can warp can keep their MHS+ travel speed, but they just don't have any reason to scale in reaction speed beyond "can stop accurately" (It should probably also be specifically listed as "MHS+ travel speed with warps," since currently the profiles make it sound like they can all just move at MHS+ speeds all the time)

As for the explosion, this would be the results using 5 psi/0.34 bar:

19.329^3*((27136*0.34+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2 = 0.0649754643 Tons (Still 9-A)

Also why does every character have "possibly Infinite" stamina? Robots having infinite stamina by default stopped being a thing a while ago, and none of the characters have any listed reasoning for such a rating
 
Yeah, if you're going to make big changes like that, I'd reccommend informing people in this thread about it, that way at the very least, people know what you're changing and why
 
I noticed the verse page is listing the high-end of the explosion calc, I'd personally prefer the low-end, seeing as 3 psi is already noted to cause "most residential structures" to collapse and we can't really be sure that the building that fell was a more sturdily built structure.

And looking through some of the P&A sections/stats, I have some problems with a few things:

From Alliance Physiology:
  • Immortality (Type 2. Can survive after getting bisected, losing limbs, etc, tho can die if they will not receive help)
As the Immortality page notes, Type 2 is only for characters who can indefinitely survive lethal injuries without needing to heal. Alliance members dying to these injuries if not given help means this would only be a feat of stamina, not Immortality
The Toilet Physiology page specifies that these abilities only work on organic beings, so this wouldn't qualify as alliance members resisting these kinds of hax

Likewise on G-Toilet's profile:
Nothing he takes here is really Type 2 material. His face gets scorched, and he gets an eye stabbed out, but a human can survive both of those (He also takes quite a few strikes, but they don't leave "deadly to the point of needing Type 2 to survive" damage either)

From Detainer Astro's profile:
There's no scan, so I can't say for certain, but this shouldn't be Power Null from the description, dispersing a laser with a shockwave by itself wouldn't be Power Null that'd just be overpowering the attack

From Titan TV Man's profile:

Resistances:

Titan Cameraman's fire resistance is fine, but we don't scale abilities/resistances like this, Titan TV Man himself hasn't displayed any heat resistance, and he shouldn't be assumed to possess the same heat resistance

From Laser Scientist Skibidi Toilet's profile:

Intelligence: Genius, likely Extraordinary Genius (Was chosen by G-Toilet as his new assistant after death of Scientist Skibidi Toilet, will likely help install upgrades into G-Toilet which will make him a G-Titan. Can speak all earthly languages.)

Being chosen as the previous scientist's successor after his death in no way means he'd scale in intelligence, saying he could potentially do something in the series in the future also doesn't mean anything, and said hypothetical feat would only be Genius intelligence at best

From DJ Skibidi Toilet's profile:

Possibly Town Level (With his upgrades, he is confident enough to challenge all three Titans. This means that he is at least somewhat comparable to them)

Confidence scaling is always iffy, and without any feats substantiating such a tier I personally think his second key should just be "At least 8-B, likely higher," noting said confidence but also that he hasn't actually shown that level of strength



And for abilities that are on several profiles, characters with these resistances for this reason:
This is pretty similar to when Kratos had Resistance to Status Effect Inducement for blocking Helios' light. None of the characters are actually resisting these abilities, they're simply blocking out the light which would inflict those abilities with protective equipment

At first, I thought Sound Manip resistance was fine, however, this is the sound manip in question:
The problem is there's nothing to really be resisted. All the sound does is knock things and characters away, which can be resisted just with physical strength, similarly to how you don't need Air Manip resistance to push against harsh winds

Finally, both physiology pages and a bunch of individual character profiles have Weapon Mastery and/or martial arts/unarmed combat listed without any real listed feats for any of it, just a description saying they're "good at fighting" or something similar, such as Titan TV Man's last key listing weapon mastery just for him having blades (No listed feats of using them, no description of his skill, it just says he has them)

And Secret Agent:
The first two are entirely unfounded and the third should just be Longevity
Again, there's no scan so I can't say for sure, but the majority of the series seems to be from the PoV of Alliance members, and if he's manipulating what they see than that'd just be another application of Technology Manipulation, not perception hax
The first one is seemingly acting like the Toilet hax is passive and not specifically done through singing (And no them doing it through singing doesn't mean every word they say would carry all those abilities) unless the Secret Agent specifically resisted a toilet attempting to turn him all of those resistances should go

The second set of resistances just doesn't have anything supporting it, kill that too.

The sound manip and fire manip resistances should have scans added, and the Sound resistance has the same problem as before where all applications of sound manip don't require specific resistance to remain unaffected, but the fire resistance should be fine

Range: Standard Melee Range, possibly Thousands of Kilometers with Teleportation

No source for the teleportation range

Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius (Skilled manipulator, plotter and organizer, used to be an Administrator of Alpha-Hills Labs)

This probably doesn't even qualify for Genius intelligence, let alone Extraordinary Genius

And a few repeat points:

Every character in the series is also listed as having "possibly Infinite" stamina. I already brought this up before, but we stopped granting Infinite stamina to robots a while ago, and none of the characters have any feats or statements for this rating

And since all of the top tiers are still MHS+, none of the listed feats give any reason for the character's reactions to scale to their warp speed, Detainer using it "on ground level" doesn't matter when we don't know where he stopped. The top tiers should only have Hypersonic Reaction speed with MHS+ travel speed for the warpers (And characters with MHS+ reaction speed should be downgraded to Hypersonic as well)

I think that's everything, there's a few other things I'm unsure of (Such as everyone's Sound resistance through headphones) but the profiles are so vague about them that I can't say for certain if they're valid

Also bruh SJG really put "accepted" on their own calc

e33.jpg
 
Also, I redid the Speakerman LS calc comparing the speakermen to the road they were standing on instead of the building in the background (Which was inflating the results, since the building was further back compared to the speakermen and thus looked smaller than it really was) and got Class 50 results
 
Since some changes did happen

yeah, changing the Alliance Immortality to limited isn't it. Normal humans can survive being cut in half, not for very long, mind you, you'd bleed out pretty quick. But the point is being cut in half isn't immediately lethal damage, and alliance members being able to survive for a bit longer than humans is entirely stamina, Type 2 Immortality isn't needed nor warranted.

Also, another few things I just noticed; Speakermen are being given resistance to TV Man hax
Except this is likely only due to them just not having eyes to actually be exposed to the light, similarly to how glasses to block it out can prevent various other characters from being affected, (And since that just got change to stick a likely on there, no, they shouldn't "likely" resist the hax, at best they'd only resist Light Manipulation for being able to block the light out) again this isn't a feat of resistance, just a lack of something that would be required for the hax to affect the character (Eyes, in this case)

G-Toilet's fire resistance:
Resistances:

If this is referring to the time he got blasted by fire that was linked by his Type 2, then it messed him up pretty bad there and I wouldn't say that would warrant fire resistance (Him still going despite the burns is, again, just stamina, not any kind of resistance)

And Secret Agent's resistances
A scan should be added for the first part (And since toilets seem to generally just sing all the time for no reason, unless the toilets were specifically singing to try to convert him or someone else, this still shouldn't grant any resistances. The second part is just the dude being cocky, I can talk a big game to someone with a gun, that doesn't mean they can't just shoot me in the face.

Also, his age is wrong, assuming he was 30 in 1979, YouTube was created in 2005, meaning at his oldest he'd only be 56 (The series could take place after 2005, but all we know is YouTube exists, in which case we'd just go with the year it was created and wouldn't be able to just assume any later date)

Also for a few calcs, the feat of G-Toilet "incinerating a building" which links the general calc, said calc assumes completely melting the building in its entirety, meanwhile we don't get to see the effects G-Toilet's blast had on the YouTube headquarters, thus we can't say for certain the extent of the damage done to the building, and we definitely can't say he melted the entire thing (Like the linked general calc is for) and the MJ destroying a door calc, the page uses the high end even though we can't say for certain the quality of steel used (Which iirc is the reason for steel's pulverization varying so much) and in a case like this we should generally go with the low-end (Which in this case is High 8-C)
 
As for all of the Low Tiers being upgraded to 8-B through scaling to Scout Astro, firstly:

Durability: At least City Block level (No-sold being shot by Handheld Laser Cannons, tho still took damage.

You can't say someone no-sells something but is also damaged by it, just say he survived it.

And second:

Should be vastly superior to Strider Toilets, which tanked a shot from Camera Satellite)

There's no reasoning given for this, it just says he should be stronger, which isn't something we can just assume.

This is then scaled retroactively to Plungerman and then scaled to all of the low tiers

At most City Block level (Comparable to Episode 75 POV-Cameraman, who endured physical and laser attacks from Scout Astro Toilet.

First, again, no scan, and second, why should Plungerman be comparable to later characters in the series? And, since Scout Astro's profile says he was casually killing large numbers of cameramen and a large cameraman who scales well above them, why should they be scaled to a character who was slaughtering groups of them and killed and scales to a much stronger cameraman? Them not getting immediately pulverized isn't grounds for scaling if the character in question that they're scaling to is still meant to be far stronger, which seems to be the case here. Especially when Plungerman needs the glitch mech to fight large alliance member level characters.

Another few oddities in his stat descriptions:

For base Plungerman

Survived an encounter with Armored Skibidi Toilet, only losing a leg)

We don't see how this encounter plays out since the video immediately cuts away, this isn't really a good example of his scaling, especially if it led to him losing a limb

Town level, likely higher for his Plunger (Was stuck in Toilet Scientist's eye during extensive beatdown from the Titans and got retrieved by Camerawoman in good condition)

Did any of the Titans' attacks actually connect with the plunger? Because it's such a comparably small target that it's possible that the titans just didn't hit it

For the Glitch Mech:

At least City Block level (Was not completely obliterated by Scientist Toilet Mech's laser eye beam. Can withstand his own rammings into enemies)

The second part is fine, but for the first part, he gets shot out of the sky with a single blast and isn't seen for the rest of the video, this just goes back to the "wasn't immediately pulverized so he should scale," the mech still gets one-tapped, we shouldn't use this as an example of its scaling.

Also like with Secret Agent, his age is wrong (Also it gives a 5-year range for his age in 1979 but then gives a 10-year range for his current age) he should only be 40-45, same with Camerawomen
 
Yeah I think we should consider the Cameraman in part 75 surviving that an outlier, that same Astro Toilet easily tore through characters that in-lore are supposed to be far stronger than standard cameramen and even tore through normal cameramen easily, I think this is just a case of the creator not considering the established powerscaling. That plus the fact that this is the only time this has happened makes me believe that this is just an anti-feat that shouldn't be considered.

Reverting the changes now
 
Does anyone have any objections to the changes I mentioned earlier? (The ones that weren't already applied and besides the ones that actually got valid scans) because if not then I'll apply those in a bit
 
Also one final thing (I think); Skibidi Toilets' singing hax:

Not only does that second question feel pretty leading (Like, it wouldn't matter since we actually see it happen, but still), but based on the first one, this should only be Bio manip, the toilets aren't "manipulating sound" in any way (Speaking isn't sound manipulation), the singing is just the mechanism which activates the actual hax. And nothing suggests it's "corrupting people," nor is it transmuting them, the people who got turned into more skibidi toilets were already sitting on toilets (For some reason) so all it had to do was manipulate their bodies, which is just Biology hax
 
Soupywolf5 said:
Also one final thing (I think); Skibidi Toilets' singing hax:

Not only does that second question feel pretty leading (Like, it wouldn't matter since we actually see it happen, but still), but based on the first one, this should only be Bio manip, the toilets aren't "manipulating sound" in any way (Speaking isn't sound manipulation), the singing is just the mechanism which activates the actual hax. And nothing suggests it's "corrupting people," nor is it transmuting them, the people who got turned into more skibidi toilets were already sitting on toilets (For some reason) so all it had to do was manipulate their bodies, which is just Biology hax
Click to expand...
This scene seems to suggest that the song can work on regular humans so maybe some form of Corruption is still applicable
Soupywolf5 said:
Does anyone have any objections to the changes I mentioned earlier? (The ones that weren't already applied and besides the ones that actually got valid scans) because if not then I'll apply those in a bit
Click to expand...
I have no objections to the previously mentioned changes
 
Actually, sorry, just one more listen man, it's not my fault these pages suck

Toilet Physiology:
Nothing I've seen for any toilets suggest proficiency in armed or unarmed combat to the point where they should get martial arts or weapon mastery for it, let alone for those abilities to be applied to the physiology pages and thus being scaled to every toilet ever
Do we have any actual showings of what the paralysis stuff does to non-resistant characters? The scan for Scientist Toilet being unaffected is partially wrong, since the weapons had some effect on him, and G Toilet, bro got zapped for like a second
Since Alliance members are robots, this would only be technology hax, not technology and mind manipulation

Since Astro toilets travel through space, radiation resistance is probably fine? Though them being mostly inorganic would negate most of the radiation exposure anyway, but cold resistance should go, since surviving in space stopped granting cold resistance a while ago (Or bare minimum the cold resistance it would grant is total garbage)

Alliance Physiology:
Same problem with the toilets, it claims all alliance members are skilled in armed and unarmed combat, but nothing is provided that would suggest all alliance members would have both of these
Not only do we not really know the damage that saw did, (We can't tell how far into his torso it was embedded, so we can't say for certain if it was immediately lethal damage) but we also don't know how long the dude lived for, and if he died, then that's just not Type 2, it's purely stamina
  • Recording and Stealth Mastery (All Cameramen can record what they see , with other Alliance members being able to see what They see through tablets or even through TV Men screens, thanks to that, Cameramen are always the ones spying on Toilets, hiding to record what they see)
Every scan I've seen so far of cameramen "hiding" are of them hiding poorly and being discovered incredibly quickly, and nothing that would indicate mastery of stealth
Why is Titan Speakerman, the speakerman god tier, being scaled in sound manipulation to every speakerman? You could say that it's specifying that it's him and thus not saying that, but then it shouldn't be on the physiology page at all and should just be on his own profile, likewise, the speakers possessed by a toilet also shouldn't be scaled to any speakermen and shouldn't be on the physiology page
I'd like a scan of all TV men being resistant to their own light, but if it's legit then it's legit
 
Since SJG just undid a bunch of the revisions.

Sound manipulation for singing isn't an ability, and the corruption isn't non-physical. As for the lens resistances, this is exactly like Kratos' removed Status effect inducement for blocking out Helios' light, the glasses aren't doing any resisting, they're just blocking out the light that causes the abilities. Plungerman's mech getting one-shot by Scientist's mech isn't a durability feat and shouldn't be noted in his durability section. If you have a problem with any of the revisions bring them up here, I specifically asked if anyone had any problems before I applied the stuff
 
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