Should there be type 5 for transduality?

[Greatsage13th]

okay so the highest level of transduality on Vs battle wiki is type 4 plurality but....from what i see, this isn't the highest level of it and i'll explain.

Type 4 (Plurality): A state of being which is qualitatively beyond and superior to the nature of even the distinction between duality and transduality. Such characters will usually not obey the laws of normal logic at any level, and will obey completely different systems of logic altogether, up to and including those states which are beyond human comprehension. A basic example of Plurality is characters whose fundamental nature operates under many-valued or certain kinds of non-classical logic, where many different values can exist that are not true or false, 0/1/2, or any dichotomies in between. However, simply being able to use many-valued logic in a feat context does not qualify a character for this type, such characters must demonstrate true qualitative superiority to all types of dual distinctions. Naturally, only 1-A characters and up can have this type, as it exists outside all possible dual distinctions.

Type 4 states that it operates on many-valued or certain kinds of non-classical logic, where many different values can exist that are not true or false, 0/1/2, or any dichotomies in between. However, simply being able to use many-valued logic in a feat context does not qualify a character for this type, such characters must demonstrate true qualitative superiority to all types of dual distinctions.

one this isn't the highest point of transcending duality the highest one is this one below

Wuji (philosophy) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wuji is basically the bipolarity of type 4 by which it is devoid of all values on a level similar to Taiji but taking it one step further by removing the its own limit and could not be distinguished as any value on any scale that even wuji could be classified as wuji due to the removal of its limit

The expression 'limitless' and its relatives are found in the Laozi and the Zhuangzi and also in writings of the logicians. It has no special philosophical meaning. In Song-dynasty philosophy, however, the same expression 'limitless' should be translated as 'ultimate of beinglessness,' for the negative element is no longer qualifying the word 'limit' but is rather qualified by the word 'limit,' here to be translated into Song philosophical jargon as 'ultimate'. Wu = Nothingness, Void, Zero; Chi = Energy. Even science now says that the ground state of our universe is made of zero point energy. Wu-chi is the source of Tai-Chi.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Pretty sure it's just type 4.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Pretty sure it's just type 4.

I mean Taiji is already a solid type 4 but then Wuji is a superior type 4. But with the removal of all limitations

 

[Darksmash]

Pretty sure it's just type 4.

This

 

[Greatsage13th]

This

?

 

[Darksmash]

From my understanding If type 4 is about transcending "all" dual distinctions then it should also include the dual distinction of having all dual distinctions and not having any

 

[Greatsage13th]

From my understanding If type 4 is about transcending "all" dual distinctions then it should also include the dual distinction of having all dual distinctions and not having any

I mean it only states embodying values beyond the scope of just 2 distinctions while still limited to these values. Anything devoid of all values even the ones that doesn't belong to dual systems would generally have no limits to the type 4's limited to the countless or infinite values it embodies. It should be noted that Wuji is like a boundless spiral penetrating every limitations on every level incomprehensible from Taiji's prespective as it still contains limitations to the value it contains and embodies while Wuji is nonexistent to all known values while also being devoid of nonexistence despite being describe as nonexistent which is why it is described as a state of beinglessness but it is also devoid of the word which is used to descrube it which also removed all limitations that were bound to it making it an immeasurably higher state of transcendences over Type 4s.

 

[Darksmash]

Well the definition of type 4 states it is superior to all possible dual distinctions

 

[Greatsage13th]

Well the definition of type 4 states it is superior to all possible dual distinctions

So type 4 could have multiple levels of transcendences depending on the verse?

 

[Darksmash]

Maybe
The definition of type 4 is weird

 

[Greatsage13th]

Maybe
The definition of type 4 is weird

should a general discussion thread be made for something as complex as this?

 

[Mand21]

Um, does Deleuze's philosophy of difference argue for humans in general being transdual?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Um, does Deleuze's philosophy of difference argue for humans in general being transdual?

Show us

 

[Greatsage13th]

Because I don't know Deleuze's philosophy

 

[Mand21]

Oh, that's gonna be HELLA complicated to explain and I myself don't fully understand it lmao

But basically, Deleuze is a post-structuralist, meaning he argues that all concepts we know are organized in binaries of some sort. Left and right, life and death, stuff like that. Some kind of negation. But as a post-structuralist, he follows that by arguing that all those binaries have some kind of breaking point in which they don't really work. Like, when a bacteria reproduces by mitosis, does it die? Reality itself doesn't fit into this kind of binary logic.

It can be mostly fit into them, which is why we find those binaries useful, but there are always gray areas and stuff that should fit but doesn't, and there will always be, because, again, reality doesn't perfectly fit into a binary logic on his view. In this way, hegelian logic of negation-of-negation and stuff like that gets broken, and he views the course of history in a way that's vaguely similar to Karl Marx's dialectical materialism, but while taking into account that history cannot function as each system being the sublation of the previous one and the social forces and processes that made it, for this will never be a precise account of reality.

Also, because Deleuze created an entire field of social psychology — schizoanalysis —, he definitely believed human beings to function in a transdual way internally (mentally) as well at some level, even if only the unconscious one for symbols are necessarily dual to the point of breaking.

So, what happens when a philosopher argues that binary logic doesn't work to explain reality to begin with, and therefore everyone is transdual?

 

[Greatsage13th]

That's....just representing us. it wouldn't apply to fiction

 

[ShivaShakti]

So type 4 could have multiple levels of transcendences depending on the verse?

So heres the thing... What exactly would be the next step after Type 4 to Type 5? Type 4 would be non-classical and extensive many valued logic. Where do you go after that? Well that would be non-adherence to logic altogether... Which we can't prove. See, we can't "Prove" something is completely beyond all logic, because we would need to use logic to even get there in the first place. For example, saying something is "Above Truth Values" is a truth value in of itself.

Wuji being superior to Taiji, would only qualify for Type 4 (Perhaps a more complex level of Type 4), as extending into a hypothetical Type 5 would be logistically impossible and not provable.

 

[Greatsage13th]

So heres the thing... What exactly would be the next step after Type 4 to Type 5? Type 4 would be non-classical and extensive many valued logic. Where do you go after that? Well that would be non-adherence to logic altogether... Which we can't prove. See, we can't "Prove" something is completely beyond all logic, because we would need to use logic to even get there in the first place. For example, saying something is "Above Truth Values" is a truth value in of itself.

Wuji being superior to Taiji, would only qualify for Type 4 (Perhaps a more complex level of Type 4), as extending into a hypothetical Type 5 would be logistically impossible and not provable.

Taiji itself is already a type 4. But Wuji takes it one step further by continuously dissolving all limitations from itself. So if it contains a Truth value, it would dissolve the limit and the next limit and the next limit and the next till an incalculable amount of times but would still constantly transcend the value it represents creating a spiral of paradox which is immeasurable on all levels while still constantly removing every limitations.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Taiji itself is already a type 4. But Wuji takes it one step further by continuously dissolving all limitations from itself. So if it contains a Truth value, it would dissolve the limit and the next limit and the next limit and the next till an incalculable amount of times but would still constantly transcend the value it represents creating a spiral of paradox which is immeasurable on all levels while still constantly removing every limitations.

Again, would still just be more complex levels of Type 4. A hypothetical Type 5 wouldn't be able to be proved.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Again, would still just be more complex levels of Type 4. A hypothetical Type 5 wouldn't be able to be proved.

So which verse has the most complex type 4 then? Basically the very pinnacle level of it.

 

[ShivaShakti]

So which verse has the most complex type 4 then? Basically the very pinnacle level of it.

I wouldn't say "Most complex" type 4 is a thing, considering it can just keep stacking into higher and higher levels of many valued logic.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I wouldn't say "Most complex" type 4 is a thing, considering it can just keep stacking into higher and higher levels of many valued logic.

So, which verse has the most powerful type 4

 

[Darksmash]

So heres the thing... What exactly would be the next step after Type 4 to Type 5? Type 4 would be non-classical and extensive many valued logic. Where do you go after that? Well that would be non-adherence to logic altogether... Which we can't prove. See, we can't "Prove" something is completely beyond all logic, because we would need to use logic to even get there in the first place. For example, saying something is "Above Truth Values" is a truth value in of itself.

Wuji being superior to Taiji, would only qualify for Type 4 (Perhaps a more complex level of Type 4), as extending into a hypothetical Type 5 would be logistically impossible and not provable.

Ironically we can't actually "prove" any of the non classical many valued logic suggsversal BS either.

 

[ShivaShakti]

So, which verse has the most powerful type 4

I couldn't tell you. Not many Transdual Type 4 verses exist on the wiki, and the ones that do don't delve extremely deep into it.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I couldn't tell you. Not many Transdual Type 4 verses exist on the wiki, and the ones that do don't delve extremely deep into it.

So.... chinese mythology then.

 

[Sera_EX]

The answer is no.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Understandable