Can there be multiple degrees of Type 5 Acausality?

[Furudo_Erika]

Can there be multiple degrees of Type 5 Acausality in the same verse?

As in, say something transcends the causal system of a universe and exists on a higher plane. So it operates on that higher plane's causal system, yet it still transcends the one below them.

Would this be Type 5, or still Type 4?

Or would it be both Type 4 and 5? (By being transcendent to a lower causal system, yet still operating on a higher one which lies beyond the lower one)

Then there could be a being that transcends the higher plane's causal system. Would this be a higher "degree" of Type 5 if so?

 

[Brahmatman]

Can there be multiple degrees of Type 5 Acausality in the same verse?

As in, say something transcends the causal system of a universe and exists on a higher plane. So it operates on that higher plane's causal system, yet it still transcends the one below them.

Would this be Type 5, or still Type 4?

Or would it be both Type 4 and 5? (By being transcendent to a lower causal system, yet still operating on a higher one which lies beyond the lower one)

Then there could be a being that transcends the higher plane's causal system. Would this be a higher "degree" of Type 5 if so?

Just like any other ability

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Just like any other ability

okay

Though would this just be Type 5, or Type 4 and 5?

As it still operates on a different casual system on a higher plane (which would be Type 4), but it is transcendent to the one on a lower plane (which would be Type 5)

 

[Brahmatman]

okay

Though would this just be Type 5, or Type 4 and 5?

As it still operates on a different casual system on a higher plane (which would be Type 4), but it is transcendent to the one on a lower plane (which would be Type 5)

In my opinion yes. If there are two characters who are absolutely transcendent to all things, one of whom can ignore the conceptual defense and surpass the other character's transcendence. As an example. There is something similar in Dies Irae, where the Hado gods impose their laws on other Hado gods

 

[Georredannea15]

It's type 4

 

[KLOL506]

Can there be multiple degrees of Type 5 Acausality in the same verse?

As in, say something transcends the causal system of a universe and exists on a higher plane. So it operates on that higher plane's causal system, yet it still transcends the one below them.

No, this is textbook Type 4.

Type 4 Acausality simply means you operate on different laws of causality/space and time. It doesn't necessarily make you uninteractible, because that's not its focus.

Type 5 Acausality means you are not bound by any form of causality whatsoever. That also means you need to be uninteractible on all fronts, full-stop. This is why this is usually reserved for people in the 1-A range or above.

 

[Tanin_iver]

This is why this is usually reserved for people in the 1-A range or above.

Madoka would like to have a word with u

 

[KLOL506]

Madoka would like to have a word with u

I said "usually" doe

 

[Furudo_Erika]

No, this is textbook Type 4.

Type 4 Acausality simply means you operate on different laws of causality/space and time. It doesn't necessarily make you uninteractible, because that's not its focus.

Type 5 Acausality means you are not bound by any form of causality whatsoever. That also means you need to be uninteractible on all fronts, full-stop. This is why this is usually reserved for people in the 1-A range or above.

This section is what gets me:
"Though the character is completely independent of causality to the point of being unaffected by any outside change, this only extends to as far as evidence shows and not to things beyond its feats."

Which implies there could be higher degrees of Type 5 in the same verse.

 

[Georredannea15]

No, there cannot be a higher degree of type 5 acausality in a verse. There can only be more than one type 5 acausality in the same verse, but no one is superior to the other.

 

[Huesito88]

No, there cannot be a higher degree of type 5 acausality in a verse. There can only be more than one type 5 acausality in the same verse, but no one is superior to the other.

What about the higher than baseline Type 5 that does exist, but wasn't implemented because basically no one would have it =P (Not that the OP actually mentioned it in this thread)

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Okay, so it sounds like it would be Type 4, but with some properties of Type 5?

As it is transcendent to a lower casual system (As in, completely independent of it and its operations), but it still operates on a higher causal system imposed on it by a higher-order.

So to the lower system, it is functionally Type 5 while not being it?

 

[Georredannea15]

 

[Huesito88]

Are you going to attempt that again?

 

[Georredannea15]

 

[ExSENNA]

The deal of Type 5 is that you are wholly outside of the cause and effect of the system you exist in and are completely unchangable and cannot be affected by any way that works within the boundaries of cause and effect. So it isn't about transcending.

Afaik, Type 5 is already Dimensioned, meaning a character with 4D hax can affect a Type 5 who is 3D, as that Type 5 is 3D only.

So that character who "exists on a higher plain" is just... a higher being. It may not even get Acausality as why such a being be affected by something they "transcend" and that they exist elsewhere that is a "higher plane".

 

[Furudo_Erika]

The deal of Type 5 is that you are wholly outside of the cause and effect of the system you exist in and are completely unchangable and cannot be affected by any way that works within the boundaries of cause and effect. So it isn't about transcending.

Which is what I said. They are independent of the causal system itself and exist outside of its operations.

So that character who "exists on a higher plain" is just... a higher being. It may not even get Acausality as why such a being be affected by something they "transcend" and that they exist elsewhere that is a "higher plane".

Because they are at the same dimensional level as the universe, they just exist outside of it on a higher plane that embeds both the being and the universe, but that doesn't mean they are a higher-dimensional being. (In fact, pretty sure they would be BDE Type 1 as the "higher plane" is an imaginary space which isn't defined by spatiotemporal dimensions, but imaginary ones instead)

So they lie outside of the causal system of the universe itself and do not participate in it.

 

[ExSENNA]

Which is what I said. They are independent of the causal system itself and exist outside of its operations.


Because they are at the same dimensional level as the universe, they just exist outside of it on a higher plane that embeds both the being and the universe, but that doesn't mean they are a higher-dimensional being. (In fact, pretty sure they would be BDE Type 1 as the "higher plane" is an imaginary space which isn't defined by spatiotemporal dimensions, but imaginary ones instead)

So they lie outside of the causal system of the universe itself and do not participate in it.

Ok then, I still think they are not getting Type 5 they still obey causality, just not causality of the universe.

You get Type 5 when you are entirely independent of causality in the level of whatever ontology you exist in (since Acausality is dimensioned), and from what I understand this character independent of the universe's causality but obey the causality of this "higher plane" place

I mean, they don't even exist in the universe but rather in the "higher plane" (whatever that even is) so they wouldn't be bothered lol

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Ok then, I still think they are not getting Type 5 they still obey causality, just not causality of the universe.

You get Type 5 when you are entirely independent of causality in the level of whatever ontology you exist in (since Acausality is dimensioned), and from what I understand this character independent of the universe's causality but obey the causality of this "higher plane" place

Yet they can still enter the universe but are still unaffected by the causal system.

I mean, they don't even exist in the universe but rather in the "higher plane" (whatever that even is) so they wouldn't be bothered lol

The imaginary space, a space "between" worlds. It is aspatiotemporal, lacking any "real" dimensions, rather it is constructed of "imaginary" dimensions.

 

[ExSENNA]

Yet they can still enter the universe but are still unaffected by the causal system.

The imaginary space, a space "between" worlds. It is aspatiotemporal, lacking any "real" dimensions, rather it is constructed of "imaginary" dimensions.

Got it. I think it doesn't matter if they aren't affected in the universe, they are still affected by in imaginary space. You gotta be entirely independent of causality in whatever location you can exist in I think, like in all planes such as universe and imaginary plane and other places that may exist in your story, of course that is if they exist on the same level but different in their ontology

I assume imaginary space is not superior to universe (Like R>F kind)

 

[Furudo_Erika]

I assume imaginary space is not superior to universe (Like R>F kind)

Nah, imaginary space would be equal to R, as the set of imaginary numbers is equal to the set of real numbers.

But imaginary space itself is only a single dimensional axis (though it is equal to R), but it is orthogonal to a real axis (See Complex Plane)

In fact, the set of complex numbers (C), is equal to R^R. So the entirety of real space and imaginary space which forms a complex space would be equal to R^R (Low 1-C)

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

High Outerversal-Boundless

 

[Furudo_Erika]

High Outerversal-Boundless

?

 

[Furudo_Erika]

.

I'm not even gonna ask wtf sorcery you just did, lol.

 

[KLOL506]

.

That's weird as **** my dude. Don't ever do that again.