Shockwave formula: Time to put some limits

[Dargoo_Faust]

Actually the nuke based explosion formula is for calcing shockwaves.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Wouldn't it depend on well, the strength of the shockwave, though?

For example, if we see a shockwave go out far but not significantly damage anything close to it, and we calc it with that method, is that taken into account?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Wouldn't it depend on well, the strength of the shockwave, though?

For example, if we see a shockwave go out far but not significantly damage anything close to it, and we calc it with that method, is that taken into account?

It needs to be a shockwave that does significant damage (that is most likely lethal), yes. Or specifically, it needs to be the radius of the shockwave in which it is that lethal, as shockwaves of course gradually get weaker.
Technically one could take another formula for just widespread destruction from the page of the calculator and IIRC the source included a scaling law one could use for even more pressure values... just that I can't find where anymore...

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Or specifically, it needs to be the radius of the shockwave in which it is that lethal, as shockwaves of course gradually get weaker.

Well, that's certainly interesting. What kind of physical destruction would we expect to see at the lethal range? Broken windows, shattered stone, etc?

(EDIT): It seems like a common misconception for this formula is just that it's the distance the visible shockwave goes out, not the distance from which we see damage.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well, that's certainly interesting. What kind of physical destruction would we expect to see at the lethal range? Broken windows, shattered stone, etc?

(EDIT): It seems like a common misconception for this formula is just that it's the distance the visible shockwave goes out, not the distance from which we see damage.

Probably. Explosions in fiction are often not very realistic and have a cleanly defined border were they just end.
Usually it's ok to assume that a normal human would die within that border. Alternatively I think that the lethal range of the shockwave is at least bigger than the fireball (or similar) if such a thing exists.

But yeah, for more realistic explosion in fiction one might has to put some thought into it.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Well, now that my confusion with DontTalk's evaluation is solved, we can probably start compiling calcs that need to be updated. The list Damage presented only includes calcs that had that exact text for the formula, but not every calc that used it (many of them abbreviate it in my experience).

 

[KLOL506]

Well, now that my confusion with DontTalk's evaluation is solved, we can probably start compiling calcs that need to be updated. The list Damage presented only includes calcs that had that exact text for the formula, but not every calc that used it (many of them abbreviate it in my experience).

Updated how exactly? And would it only include calcs that use this formula (The formula in the OP) as a whole?

EDIT: NVM, I think I got it. Guess only the calcs using this new formula get affected.

 

[Imaginym]

So, to apply this formula when calculating an explosion, there must not only be a notable shockwave, but said visible shockwave must also evidently damage something?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So, to apply this formula when calculating an explosion, there must not only be a notable shockwave, but said visible shockwave must also evidently damage something?

Echoing this question, are we not allowed to use this formula outright? or are there certain criterion that must be met in order to apply the formula?

 

[M3X_2.0]

We don't use this formula anymore

 

[LordGinSama]

Hmm question, as for calculating explosions that aren't air blast based or ones that happen on ground how would we calc it?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Hmm question, as for calculating explosions that aren't air blast based or ones that happen on ground how would we calc it?

We don't use this formula anymore

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Lightbuster30 I think he knows that, he's asking how to calculate certain types of explosions, not if he can use the formula discussed in this thread.

 

[LordGinSama]

Like for example, Air Burst doesn't quite fit for a feat I had in mind.



What method would we use for non nuclear explosions for fire based explosions that happen on ground and into the air?

 

[KLOL506]

The formula for calc'ing ground-based explosions (Non-nuclear stuff or fire-based explosions etc.) is on the Explosion Yield Calculations page here.

 

[LordGinSama]

Hmmm so question out of curiosity, a calc in question relies a lot on the NTF method. But Air Blast doesn't work in this circumstance, and neither does ground explosion work.



How would The following calc work? NTF doesn't work, and neither does Air Blast work so what formula works?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Actually the nuke based explosion formula is for calcing shockwaves.

Here my boy, shockwaves.

 

[LordGinSama]

Still having some issues rereading a calc, but since the thread seems to be settled would you mind taking this discussion to my wall? I've still got some questions regarding a certain calc.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Well looks like I'm late, but what to do with shockwave calculations that are not explosions?

 

[KLOL506]

Well looks like I'm late, but what to do with shockwave calculations that are not explosions?

We stopped using them a while ago and all have been discarded.

AKA the thread's pretty much been concluded well over a month ago.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Looks like Voldemort has to be downgraded.

there are still a bunch of current calcs: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...nal&query=(ρ/t^2)*(r/c)^5&ns[0]=500&ns[1]=502

at least 2 of my calcs with the formula are still in use from a quick check

 

[KLOL506]

Looks like Voldemort has to be downgraded.

there are still a bunch of current calcs: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?scope=internal&query=(ρ/t^2)*(r/c)^5&ns[0]=500&ns[1]=502

at least 2 of my calcs with the formula are still in use from a quick check

The rest seem to be Keijo calcs but in those cases the shockwave calcs really seem to be useless to me.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

There's Ang Lee's Hulk.

So all physical shockwave feats are unquantifiable now?

 

[KLOL506]

There's Ang Lee's Hulk.

So all physical shockwave feats are unquantifiable now?

For now, yes. Specifically, if they use the shockwave formula as M3X mentioned.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I'll perform the downgrades in the verses I know, hopefully we get something to quantify.

 

[KLOL506]

I'll perform the downgrades in the verses I know, hopefully we get something to quantify.

Ye, pretty much, unless someone somewhere finds a better formula to calc such shockwaves which don't inherently act like explosions, you're gonna have to find better feats instead.

Try the boulder feats, he easily smashes a car in one of those feats.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

It's for his 9 feet key

 

[KLOL506]

It's for his 9 feet key

yeah, use the reactor feat thingy then, he easily smashes through a wall and a car in the process.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Maybe for shockwaves that do things we can use reverse Inverse Square Law.

 

[Jasonsith]

Wondering if air scattering by 1/2 m v^2 where m is the mass of the air will be too much a lowball.

 

[Migue79]

But what if it happens in outer space? What would we have to do?

 

[Jasonsith]

But what if it happens in outer space? What would we have to do?

Talk about some fictional shockwaves sending across the space as if it happens on Eart surface but on a MUCH larger scale but not quite on the explosion range?

Now I think about it: do we have the starquake formula? How applicable is that?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

The Inverse Square Law one or what?

 

[KLOL506]

Talk about some fictional shockwaves sending across the space as if it happens on Eart surface but on a MUCH larger scale but not quite on the explosion range?

Now I think about it: do we have the starquake formula? How applicable is that?

IDK, I never used it for an explosion happening in outer space

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Now I think about it: do we have the starquake formula? How applicable is that?

unsure on general star quakes, but for Sunquakes i found this equation

"The propagation of ring waves across the surface of the sun in response to a flare initiated sunquake is modeled using Euler's equations of fluid dynamics. "
- Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238587299_Theoretical_Predictions_of_Sunquake_Waves

Eulers Equation for fluid dynamics wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_equations_(fluid_dynamics)

Here is the NASA version https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/eulereqs.html

Then you have something like this Scientific draft document https://arxiv.org/pdf/1911.06839.pdf


Edit: I found this too

"To produce the sunquake we need a strong impulsive force in the lower solar atmosphere. The sunquake momentum can be estimated from the initial impact as psq ∼ ρL3 v ∼ 1022 g·cm s−1 for ρ ∼ 10−8 g·cm−3 (photospheric value) and v ∼ cs ∼ 10 km/s, where cs is photospheric sound speed. In principle, the force generating sunquakes can be produced directly by energetic electron beams. The total momentum of injected nonthermal electrons is pe = τ √ 2me Z ∞ Elow f(E) √ EdE"

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1405.5912.pdf

"We use the following formula to estimate the total sunquake power H+[erg/s] in the frequency range 5-7 mHz: H+ = Z SROI Z t2 t1 cs ρδv2 2 "

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1911.04197.pdf

im done..

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I'm not sure if that can be scaled to unnatural shaking considering for earthquakes non-natural ones have far less energy that natural ones by our current standards.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Slightly off topic:

Will this affect any speed scaling that comes with shockwaves?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

No this is just regarding calculating AP of shockwaves

 

[Axxtentacle]

Thank you. I'll step out now.

 

[Jasonsith]

Slightly off topic:

Will this affect any speed scaling that comes with shockwaves?

No this is just regarding calculating AP of shockwaves

Actually... If an attack created shock waves that traverses a said distance of a period of time, the speed of the shockwaves propagated by characters' attacks have to be proportionate in speed to the attack themselves, and therefore can be scaled to their combat and reaction speeds.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Yes if it's physical I guess