Shinra Tensei is Light Speed (Naruto)

[TheFinalOrder]

What the title says is true. I don't know if this has been brought up before, but Shinra Tensei is a LS attack, now whether we want to accept it as such, is a differen't story, but note prior that it scales to no one,' 'only Pain's Attack Speed with it, as nobody in the verse has been able to react to it except on three occasions that are massive outliers in the first place.

That being said, we know Shinra Tensei and Banshou Tenin are based on Repulsion and Attraction. These are concepts born out of Magnetism/Electromagnetism, both of which are two parts that make up Electromagnetic Force. The databooks also site a Gravitational component for both, but as for now, we're just focusing on Shinra Tensei.


It quite simple really. In fiction, "Gravitational powers" don't really "act" as they are supposed to IRL, when it comes to "Pushing" objects. It acts more like a "Force Field" than a wave persey. Matter wouldn't pushed away indefinite like in these examples:


That being said, we understand what they are based on and what is the author's intent is with portraying them in such a way. The reason why Shinra Tensei is LS (and by extention Fujitora's Gravity Waves) is that whether it's based on Gravity Waves or Electromagetic Force, BOTH TRAVEL AT LIGHT SPEED.

Shinra-tensei (All-Nature Repulsion).
Ninjutsu, Keke-genkai, offensive, defensive, close range.
Users:Nagato
Invisible hand of God, that repels anything in creation!
Pain Tendou uses this jutsu, utilizing the generated from the users hands repulsive (gravity) force to repel targets away. The number of targets that can be repelled and their size are irrelevant . In addition by stopping the utilization of other Pain paths the amount of chakra put in the jutsu, its strength and area of effect can be greatly increased. With one strike of its power entire Konoha no sato (Konoha village) was turned to smoldering ash. But after this jutsu has been triggered there is a small five second window it can't be used again. The originating repulsion force generated by the power of all creation"shinra obiki" (something that binds all together,so likely gravitation) forces its targets to collide together with a great force and put out additional damage, combined together with the initial force (shock wave) it puts up even more damage. Only those who can manipulate all chakra transformation properties (seishitsu) legendary "Rinnegan" wielders are allowed to posses this jutsu that has all rights to be called "crystally perfect".
Picture: Its repulsion force is so strong that even ninjutsu and taijutsu are equally ineffective against this jutsu, with an unexpected discharge of the invisible force, it is very easy to catch opponents off guard

Shinra Tensei at it's base is likely based on Gravity Waves as we know Deva Path manipulates Gravity:

• Chibaku Tensei

• Bansho Ten'in

Above, I said there are 3 instances where people have reacted to it:

• Kn6 Naruto

• Tsunade saving the villagers

• Naruto creating clones while being pushed back with ST.

These are outliers.

If accepted, this would only scale to:

• Rinnegan Madara

• Nagato

• Rinnegan Sasuke

In attackk speed only, no other speeds.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Well, I did not see this coming.

 

[Kepekley23]

In the small microsecond it is released, yes, it's traveling at the speed of light, as are all gravity distorting attacks in fiction. The actual shockwave, however, doesn't need to be anywhere near the speed of light, so no.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

No one ever reacted to it or dodged if i don't forget.I always fought it is instant omnidirectional attack,lol.

 

[Kepekley23]

Yes, but it doesn't travel at the speed of light in any case.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

In the small microsecond it is released, yes, it's traveling at the speed of light, as are all gravity distorting attacks in fiction. The actual shockwave, however, doesn't need to be anywhere near the speed of light, so no.

Except, that's not true. The "Repulsive force" is what travels at LS, not the activation speed.

 

[Kepekley23]

Untrue. You don't need to be anywhere near the speed of light to attract or repel objects. You're getting confused. For a really small nanosecond, Shinra Tensei does indeed travel at the speed of light, but it will repel at enormously lower speeds.

 

[Golden_Void]

when you try to get LS Naruto by any means

Kakashi also kamui sniped a nail Pain almighty pushed toward his head.

A lot of characters with these powers aren't considered light speed though, especially far stronger characters that have control of gravity/magnetism/electromagnetism on a planetary or beyond scale.

 

[Kepekley23]

Are you talking to me? I disagree with this lol

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Untrue. You don't need to be anywhere near the speed of light to attract or repel objects. You're getting confused. For a really small nanosecond, Shinra Tensei does indeed travel at the speed of light, but it will repel at enormously lower speeds.

You're right it repels at lower speeds. But the force, the wave it self will travel at LS until it hits it's target. That target won't be propelled at LS unless the force itself has enough energy to propel said matter at LS. With newtons 3rd law, sure, the object will initially propel at LS, but for like a insignificant amount of time unless the energy is high enough to continue that momentum.

Basically, unless ST has enough energy to push matter at LS, the object will not be thrown at LS. But i don't know how much energy is required to push a man or something even a meter at LS.

 

[Kepekley23]

Actually, the shockwave that causes the actual destruction is vastly lower than the speed of light.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Actually, the shockwave that causes the actual destruction is vastly lower than the speed of light.

Welp...was interesting to say the least. BTW, can you check out this thread about Boruto anime being canon?

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1668348

 

[Frantzy12]

WOW

 

[LordGinSama]

I think Kep seems to make sense in this regard.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I think Kep seems to make sense in this regard.

Kep's opinion is baseless and factless. He disagree's but has 0 proof to back up said claims.

He says the wave that does the damage wouldn't move at LS and yet, he has no proof to back up that claim in front of the proof posted in the OP.

It's not about whether or not ST "needs" to be LS. Based on the information provided, IT IS LS. Idc that Kep disagree's, he has that right, what I care about is his reasoning, which again, is baseless.

 

[Kepekley23]

Maybe the fact that this is literally how the very concept of a gravitational pull works. There's absolutely no reason to give Pain special treatment.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Maybe the fact that this is literally how the very concept of a gravitational pull works. There's absolutely no reason to give Pain special treatment.

There is a fundemental flaw in your reasoning.

The Wave itself is LS. There is no debating this unless you can disprove Gravitational Waves are not LS.

The Wave being LS =\= Objects being pushed at LS.

So your argument makes 0 sense and no, your reasoning is not how Gravitational Pull Works.

 

[Wokistan]

We don't consider every gravity power as inherently FTL, I don't think.

 

[Kepekley23]

If you mean that the wave that pulls the characters is lightspeed in the small nanosecond it is fired, before vastly deaccelerating, then yep. The wave that is generated by the characters being pulled would be the one with constant lightspeed velocity, and it wouldn't even be scalable to the characters themselves nor a direct effect of the power.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

We don't consider every gravity power as inherently FTL, I don't think.

Tbf, other than me, who ever really knew about it much less brought it up before? I believe it should be a case by case basis because it's a fact that it moves at LS (Scientifically proven).

 

[TheFinalOrder]

If you mean that the wave that pulls the characters is lightspeed in the small nanosecond it is fired, before vastly deaccelerating, then yep. The wave that is generated by the characters being pulled would be the one with constant lightspeed velocity, and it wouldn't even be scalable to the characters themselves nor a direct effect of the power.

Shinra Tensei and by extension, Bansho Tenin, would be LS is what I'm saying. Whatever is being Pulled or Pushed wouldn't be LS as the techniques nor the verse itself has the power to push or pull matter that fast. This doesn't affect personal stats as nobody has reacted to it and AP isn't affected at all. It's just the technique should be that fast.

Example:

• Pain uses ST on Naruto.
• The Wave hits Naruto at LS
• Naruto is pushed at Vastly vastly slower speeds as the Technique doesn't have the energy to push Naruto that fast.

 

[AstralKing7]

Since we're still here bump

 

[NoodIes67]

The wave would not just randomly decelerate, it should maintain a constant speed until it comes into contact with another force or object that slows it down. The wave however would not be light speed as gravitational waves are only light speed within a vacuum, but the wave in Naruto would be traveling through the medium of air, so you'd have to find out how much of an effect air has on the speed of the gravitational waves. I believe it would still be relativistic though.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

There was no need for this to be necro'd.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

The wave would not just randomly decelerate, it should maintain a constant speed until it comes into contact with another force or object that slows it down. The wave however would not be light speed as gravitational waves are only light speed within a vacuum, but the wave in Naruto would be traveling through the medium of air, so you'd have to find out how much of an effect air has on the speed of the gravitational waves. I believe it would still be relativistic though.

Matter doesn't affect a GW speed.