Shin Megami Tensei stats

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So this is something that's been confusing me for a while (since we revised the SMT pages), but I just started remembering it. First of all, Kagutsuchi is a High 2-A character. That much is obvious, as he explicitly has a High 2-A feat. However, there are certain characters who are rated as "Low 1-C" just for being stronger than High 2-A characters such as Kagutsuchi, which as I was reminded, we cannot do. Unless someone is explicitly infinitely greater than someone of Kagutsuchi's scale, being stronger would make them High 2-A as well, not Low 1-C. Are there any other reasons for these Low 1-C stats on certain characters?

Secondly, there are a lot of SMT characters who are rated as MFTL+ despite being able to fight beings that exist beyond conventional space-time, which is...odd. For example, Hitoshura and Lucifer aren't exactly bound by conventional time after a certain point, so I don't see how they'd be "just" MFTL+.

Thoughts?

 

[MagiSinbad]

To be honest, i was alway feel wrong about 1-C stat for SMT characters, at best, the mainline SMT should be around High 2-A with the exception of the Devil Survivor 2 cast, who has their own feat to be low 1-C

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

To be honest, i was alway feel wrong about 1-C stat for SMT characters, at best, the mainline SMT should be around High 2-A with the exception of the Devil Survivor 2 cast, who has their own feat to be low 1-C

Alright. That was the stuff with Canopus, who explicitly existed beyond the multiverse, right?

 

[MagiSinbad]

Also, Lucifer and many other supernatural beings in SMT should have immesurable speed due to not bound to the concept of time o3o

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also, Lucifer and many other supernatural beings in SMT should have immesurable speed due to not bound to the concept of time o3o

Indeed. The fact they didn't always confused me.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Yep, Canopus and his Prime Factors exist beyond the DeSu2 multiverse ( That's right, DeSu2 have their own multiverse ) Entire cast absorbed the Prime Factors, which gave them the power to goes toes on toes the Canopus so they obviously low 1-C

 

[MagiSinbad]

wait... then what would we gonna do with YHVH page ? o.o low 1-C for YHVH ?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I mean...presumably YHVH and Aleph would still be Low 1-C? Not sure. Been a while.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Aiz... well, i dont recall anything from SMT 2 that YHVH is infinitely beyond Kagutsuchi in power =3= from what you're saying, then i dont think YHVH could be Low 1-C. What do you think ? Azzy ?

 

[MagiSinbad]

oops, i mean infinitely beyond Lucifer and Satan

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Hmm...not sure. Maybe at least High 2-A, possibly higher? Some more input on this would be good, too.

 

[MagiSinbad]

High 2-A will obviously piss off alot of SMT fans jk

High 2-A, possibly low 1-C should be fine o3o

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Alright. Thanks, Magi. I'll wait for some more opinions, as well.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Yeah that doesn't sound right, as you said the difference in this level of tiering is infinity,and being stronger than someone doesn't put you a tier above them anyway, so being just High 2-A makes sense

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Well, I don't know much about SMT, but I think that MagiSinbad and Darkness552 were the ones who helped out with revising them previously.

Darkness is taking a break now though. I could PM him on fanfiction.net, but don't know if that is a bad idea?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But isn't people like Kagutsuchi, Demiurge and maybe even Metatron avatars of YVHV, his power infinitely higher than their own? It always seemed the case to me, honestly.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I pretty much agree with MagiSinbad, although since Shiva was considered a threat by the Anguished one, could that have an effect on any of this?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Hmm. Well, I don't know much about SMT, but I think that MagiSinbad and Darkness552 were the ones who helped out with revising them previously.
Darkness is taking a break now though. I could PM him on fanfiction.net, but don't know if that is a bad idea?

Well, Magi seems to think that High 2-A is suitable for everyone who isn't from DeSu2, Aleph, and YHVH, but I don't know what Darkness thinks.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Could "The Great Will" be placed at "At least *Insert one Tier letter higher than what YHVH will be* " when this update comes to happening?

 

[MagiSinbad]

Well, The Great Will would be Low 1-C though for being above YHVH in power ^_^ idk

Heh, his best feat is created Amala Multiverse, so can we assume that he exist above the multiverse like Canopus did ?

 

[MagiSinbad]

I pretty much agree with MagiSinbad, although since Shiva was considered a threat by the Anguished one, could that have an effect on any of this?

why scailing from 7-B AO ?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well, The Great Will would be Low 1-C though for being above YHVH in power ^_^ idk
Heh, his best feat is created Amala Multiverse, so can we assume that he exist above the multiverse like Canopus did ?

Basicallly... There is a YVHV in every universe, same with everyone else, and YVHV is only an infinitesimally small fraction of something infinitely higher than all the YVHV in the infinite Multiverse.

We see this in SMT2, I believe. In one of the endings protagonist kills YVHV... Only to discover the he's only that universe's avatar of something infinitely greater.

 

[Blahblah9755]

why scailing from 7-B AO ?

At that point wasn't he already considered powerful enough that he could take over the roll of Polaris? Beating Polaris didn't make him anymore powerful, it just gave him control of the Akashik records

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Hm...then I guess it would be High 2-A for most people, "At least High 2-A" for YHVH and Aleph, and At least Low 1-C for the Great Will? Orrrrr...?

 

[MagiSinbad]

We see this in SMT2, I believe. In one of the endings protagonist kills YVHV... Only to discover the he's only that universe's avatar of something infinitely greater.

What ?! he did said that ? O-O i'm only finished the Chaos ending (the gameplay was so horrible that preventing me from having another replay). In the chaos ending, he's only mentioned about the Great Will will keep revive him as long as humanity still wish for his salvatio

At that point wasn't he already considered powerful enough that he could take over the roll of Polaris? Beating Polaris didn't make him anymore powerful, it just gave him control of the Akashik records

Although i have no problem for Shiva to be higher. But The multiverse level power was obviously the Akashic Record power. i will make another thread to discuss about this :/

Hm...then I guess it would be High 2-A for most people, "At least High 2-A" for YHVH and Aleph, and At least Low 1-C for the Great Will?

I have no problem with Low 1-C TGW o3o

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Sinbad

Than that's what I was refering too, then, I believe...

 

[CuriousWatcher]

Hm...then I guess it would be High 2-A for most people, "At least High 2-A" for YHVH and Aleph, and At least Low 1-C for the Great Will? Orrrrr...?

What about Abel, Aleph and Hitoshura?

oops, i mean infinitely beyond Lucifer and Satan

YHVH created both of them and like Metatron and the 4 cardinal angels and I don't remember an instance when any of them was able to even touch YHVH, for what it's worth.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

What about Abel, Aleph and Hitoshura?

Abel and Hitoshura would probably be High 2-A with Aleph being "At least High 2-A".

 

[Tivanenk]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but where was it ever stated that DeSu games were a part of their own universe and not connected to the Amala network? And I'm pretty sure Kagutsuchi is an avatar of the Great Will, not YHVH.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that The Great Will should stay at Unknown tier. We know almost nothing about it, and if I understand correctly it is inferred to be much greater than all multiverses combined, which could mean multiverses of any type.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I think that The Great Will should stay at Unknown tier. We know almost nothing about it, and if I understand correctly it is inferred to be much greater than all multiverses combined, which could mean multiverses of any type.

Being much greater than all multiverses (assuming they were all like the Amala Universe) would be Low 1-C. However, as you said, it might be better to leave it at "Unknown". However, has enough input been given to edit the profiles accordingly (both power and speed)?

 

[Antvasima]

I meant that multiverses can technically be 26-Dimensional as well, according to some theories.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You mean from Bosonic String Theory? Yeah, but I doubt they had that in mind. However, the problem is, as said before, we have literally no idea where the Great Will stands aside from the fact that it was above and beyond countless Amala Universes. So Unknown seems to fit.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed.

 

[MagiSinbad]

YHVH created both of them and like Metatron and the 4 cardinal angels and I don't remember an instance when any of them was able to even touch YHVH, for what it's worth.

If YHVH was infinitely beyond Lucifer, he could have wiped out the entire chaos force just by blinking o3o

So...

Everyone argree with the downgrade ?

"Downgrade to 2-A" list

>lucifer

>YHVH

>Mem Aleph

>Demiurge

>Hitoshura (Demi Fiend)

>Raidou Kuzunoha the XIV

>Metatro

>Sandalpho

>Abel

>Aleph

>Flyn

well, that's it. Any objection ? o3o

 

[Antvasima]

Not really. Just make sure to place the appropriate entries at High 2-A.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but where was it ever stated that DeSu games were a part of their own universe and not connected to the Amala network?

DeSu 1 happened in Amala. DeSu 2 otherwise, take place "Outside" of it. Also, DeSu2 is not a universe, it's a multiverse. The Akashic Record mutilverse . All of them exist parallel to each other and being controlled by the Akashic Record, which is a system exist in a higher dimension : Akasha stratum. The DeSu2 cosmology didnt stopped at Akasha Stratum, DeSu 2 Break Record, which is the sequel of DeSu 2, introduced another higher dimension, Providence, which is where Canopus and his factors reside

 

[Tivanenk]

To be honest, those scans say nothing about the Akasha multiverse being separate from the Amala network. And since SMT games have pretty much been confirmed to be alternate universes of each other, then some more decisive proof is needed.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I have fixed the tiers and speed of the affected profiles.

 

[MagiSinbad]

I have fixed the tiers and speed of the affected profiles.

Nice work ! Azzy ^_^ but ... we still havent discuss about the speed yet, do you think this is okay ? o3o

To be honest, those scans say nothing about the Akasha multiverse being separate from the Amala network. And since SMT games have pretty much been confirmed to be alternate universes of each other, then some more decisive proof is needed.

Ummm... dude. I just already explained that DeSu2 is a seperated multiverse which being maintained by the Akashic Record '-' While the Kagutsuchi is the system of Amala Multiverse, the Akashic Record is the control system of it's own multiverse. While the Kagutsuchi, YHVH,... is the gods of Amala. The Administrators are the gods of Akashic Record Multiverse, everyone of them have the right to stepping on the heavenly throne and gain the power to decide entire multiverse's past, present and future. I remember that somebody asked me some question like this :

Perhap Polaris is just another avatar of The Great Will ?

Absolutely NO ! Polaris is just one of the administrators of the Akashic Record, like Miyako stated : There are countless stars in the existence and and many of them are the administrator like Polaris and Arcturus ( see more : Polaris Arcturus ). Is Kagutsuchi a star ? No ! he's the system of Amala Multiverse created by the Great Will. He's not an administrator.

Akashic Record, Administrators, Swords of Administrator, Heavenly Throne, Akasha Stratum, Probidence, Canopus. Those key words never and obviously never will appear in the SMT mainline. That's why every fan of SMT considered it's not a part of Amala Multiverse but a seperated multiverse

If you dont believe me, play the game. It only took you a couple of week. Because there are no scan ever mentioned about the Amala multiverse to show you >__>