Shin Megami Tensei Question

[DigiAnymore]

蒼白き神気の光。 滅びを司るこの光に包まれたものは、 死を超えた消滅の運命を辿るしか道が残されていない。

This scene Megido Megami Tensei not hyperbole??

 

[Lukewoesal007]

For reference, this is the quote OP is referring to.

To answer the question: No. It's not inconsistent with other depictions of spells in the verse.

 

[DigiAnymore]

For reference, this is the quote OP is referring to.

To answer the question: No. It's not inconsistent with other depictions of spells in the verse.

I don't know, but why it's not inconsistent or contradict?

 

[Lukewoesal007]

I don't know, but why it's not inconsistent or contradict?

I should've elaborated. There are other examples of spells seemingly erasing (or least deconstructing) demons and humans, such as the Hama and Mudo spell lines, and the death animations in SMTV.

 

[DigiAnymore]

I should've elaborated. There are other examples of spells seemingly erasing (or least deconstructing) demons and humans, such as the Hama and Mudo spell lines, and the death animations in SMTV.

can you give an example of the animation? because I see a similar skill like megidolaon, it only destroys the visualization of the devil survivor when fighting lucifer, and is that visualization canon in the Shin Megami Tensei game?

 

[Lukewoesal007]

can you give an example of the animation?

Here and here for Hama and Mudo. Here for SMTV death animations. I should note that since Magatsuhi/Magnetite is the material that all of reality is comprised, being able to dissipate it from foes would be erasing their existence.

I see a similar skill like megidolaon, it only destroys the visualization of the devil survivor when fighting lucifer

Not sure what you mean here. The scan you originally posted is describing Megido, which is part of the same spell line as Megidolaon.

is that visualization canon in the Shin Megami Tensei game?

Yes, attack animations are canon. We used a cutscene in which a Pixie vaporized a Lham Dearg to determine her 9-A rating.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

This shouldn't be existence erasure tbh, there are many things "beyond death"

 

[Lukewoesal007]

This shouldn't be existence erasure tbh, there are many things "beyond death"

It should. "Beyond death", in the context of Megami Tensei, would imply the destruction of the soul (and thus the mind, information, and concept) itself.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

It should. "Beyond death", in the context of Megami Tensei, would imply the destruction of the soul (and thus the mind, information, and concept) itself.

Prove it

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Prove it

O K

 

[XXKINGXX69]

O K

It doesn't say that anywhere

 

[Lukewoesal007]

It doesn't say that anywhere

In the context of Persona, the collective unconscious is defined as the deepest level of reality, the primordial wellspring of being out of which every human soul springs forth, and to which all of them return after the death of the physical body.

Eternal Punishment then has Tatsuya stating that the Collective Unconscious connects the souls of humans throughout multiple universes, too, as he is about to leave the universe created at the end of Innocent Sin and return to his original timeline. Earlier in the game, the concept of the cycle of reincarnation is brought up, and it is stated that the inherent connection all humans have with one another through the unconscious extends into past lives and worlds too.

Another primary component of the series is the concept of metempsychosis, or, in more general terms, the idea that humanity as a whole is trapped in an infinite cycle of death and reincarnation, their souls taking part in a process which has been occuring since the beginning of all things, and will continue to occur until their end. Indeed, the name of the series itself, "Megami Tensei," translates to "Reincarnation of the Goddess."

Shioda: If the Egg hatched and a new universe were born, it would take the souls with it and have them reincarnate. Does reincarnation mean the souls themselves would become immortal?

Yamai: Exactly. If the souls disappeared, the gods wouldn’t exist anymore either. The idea of the immortality of souls through the circle of transmigration is Buddhist and, even from YHVH’s position, (this is starting to sound a bit like Gnosticism) the existence of the circle of transmigration is a good thing, so the Great Reason created that system which perhaps YHVH too took part in.

The whole idea of souls leaving the illusory world behind upon death only to be trapped in it once again after being rebirthed lines up surprisingly well with Shin Megami Tensei IV, where Charon states that the land of the dead which lies beyond River Styx is a place where all sounds endure a state of nothingness while waiting for reincarnation.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

So? Beyond death could mean more than just dead, not that its erased. It doesn't say anywhere that existence being erased is the only thing that transcends death

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Beyond death could mean more than just dead, not that its erased.

What are you referring to by "more than just dead" if not the erasure of a character's soul?

It doesn't say anywhere that existence being erased is the only thing that transcends death

The burden of proof is on you to explain why there'd be "other things" that transcend death.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

What are referring to by "more than just dead" if not the erasure of a character's soul?


The burden of proof is on you to explain why there'd be "other things" that transcend death.

It could be damaging a body after death, that would in a way be beyond death because its more than jus death

 

[Lukewoesal007]

It could be damaging a body after death, that would in a way be beyond death because its more than jus death

Except the wording used specifically is "transcends death", implying it's annihilating the target on a level fundamentally greater than death of the material body.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Except the wording used specifically is "transcends death", implying it's annihilating the target on a level fundamentally greater than death of the material body.

Vaporizing a material body would count as well

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Vaporizing a material body would count as well

Except even the weakest spells, such as Agi, already do so. That's not the case.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Except even the weakest spells, such as Agi, already do so. That's not the case.

Yeah, so those are "beyond death" as well

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Yeah, so those are "beyond death" as well

Evidently not, considering the "beyond death" description is clearly specific to the -Megi spell line.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Evidently not, considering the "beyond death" description is clearly specific to the -Megi spell line.

Not true, it being stated to be beyond death doesn't mean its the only spell that destroys someone beyond death

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Not true, it being stated to be beyond death doesn't mean its the only spell that destroys someone beyond death

This a huge assumption on your part, which you have absolutely zero corroboration for. The spell was specifically described with such a trait. To my knowledge, there are no other cards with that description. It would be the logical assumption to assume only spells in that particular line have that trait if the description is explicitly making that trait clear.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

This a huge assumption on your part, which you have absolutely zero corroboration for. The spell was specifically described with such a trait. To my knowledge, there are no other cards with that description. It would be the logical assumption to assume only spells in that particular line have that trait if the description is explicitly making that trait clear.

Other spells don't need to have that description for it to also count for "beyond death"

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Other spells don't need to have that description for it to also count for "beyond death"

You have no evidence to suggest this. The fact that a specific spell card specifies "annihilation beyond death" implies that such is a trait inherent to that spell line.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

It could be damaging a body after death, that would in a way be beyond death because its more than jus death

Respectfully
This makes absolutely no sense
Damaging a body beyond Death is not a feat that would warrant saying it is beyond death. Likewise, vaporizing a body would not, either. To be beyond death would imply something greater than death would occur, and someone's body simply vaporizing is little more than a Death that get's rid of the body. Now if instead, this, say, damaged a Soul even after death, then that would make logical sense for being Beyond Death. Let's say that someone kills another person. They then mutilate the corpse. By your logic, that would be inherently beyond death, but nobody uses the term/idea in such a way.