Shigaraki Minor Revisions

[CyborgSakumo]

-Immense Pain Tolerance(If you've read this current arc and don't agree to this, I am very surprised)

-Resistance to Fear Manipulation and Limited Resistance to Paralysis Manipulation(Unaffected by Stain's fear manipulation Chapter 49, in the anime it's clearly shown)

-Minor Rage Power and or Reactive Power Level (Got Faster, after being pushed to his limits Chapter 281 for reference)

-Multiple Personalities(Has AFO's spirit inside him who can help him better utilize quirks in times of extreme stress)

-Resistance to Mind Manipulation(Resisted AFO's Influence)

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Immense pain Tolerance:should be fine I’ve seen characters withstand beatings on the level of shigaraki’s and get that in their ability section
He can also reduce pain in his body to an extent with Rivet kinda undeniable

Resistance to fear Manipulation and Paralysis :Idk how to feel about this but there’s not much that counters this and Shigaraki has fear haxes himself when he scared amped MLA members
Did stain Paralyze endeavor through fear though? He just seemed scared and could move semi fine

Possible resistance to madness:Since you said Possible potentially maybe I’m neutral on this and wanna see other opinions

Minor Rage Power:I don’t see a problem with this

Adaptation:Can’t argue against it much I’m neutral on it and wanna see other opinions

Soul Manip Resistance:Very Iffy I’m not gonna comment on this one imma wait for what people like TheRustyOne and Therefir have to say on this

Side note I recommend you add some scans

 

[CyborgSakumo]

I'm not sure how to add scans so I'm linking to the chapters, also Stain already has Fear manip on his profile. Endeavor stopped attacked him and didn't' start moving until after Stain passed out.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I'm not sure how to add scans so I'm linking to the chapters, also Stain already has Fear manip on his profile. Endeavor stopped attacked him and didn't' start moving until after Stain passed out.

I recommend using something like Imgur instead

 

[Arkenis]

can get the links off a manga website

 

[CyborgSakumo]

I posted the imgur link

 

[Kingofwolves999]

He should have resistance to Mind Manipulation as well since vestiges can snap you out of mind control and take over your body if needed.

Deku should get Resistance to Soul Manipulation as well.

Everything else is fine other than Madness which should remain as possibly.

Why do we scale Shigaraki to fearing dozens of people, rather than to him directly overpowering the “Incite” quirk which affects hundreds of people at once.

 

[Arkenis]

i think due to him fear haxing people who had a resistance to fear hax

 

[CyborgSakumo]

i think due to him fear haxing people who had a resistance to fear hax

No, King's Right we should just mention him FearHaxing the incite power, those random people aren't super impressive.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

i think due to him fear haxing people who had a resistance to fear hax

Their resistance to fear hax scales to how strong Incite is, which is hundreds of people.

 

[Arkenis]

alright ig that's better

 

[TheRustyOne]

1: Pain Tolerance isn't an ability we have on this wiki. The people who do have this in their section either don't link to anything, which is wrong. Or they link to Pain Manipulation, which is also incorrect. Resistant to Pain Manipulation should mean that a person feels less pain than they normally should.

Take Darkseid's Agony Matrix, which makes a person's pain receptors flare uncontrollably. Being resistance to PM means this attack would be less effective.

Shigaraki, to our knowledge, feels the normal amount of pain from an attack. He just doesn't react or care about it, but he still feels it. The Agony Matrix would work just fine on Shigaraki, while it wouldn't work on say, Gigantomachia who has a Quirk that makes him unable to feel pain.

Obviously if a certain PM attack isn't potent enough he won't react to it. We do know that he can feel pain, as he screamed when Endeavor hit him with Prominence Burn. So there is no ability to add here, other then to mention his high pain tolerance in his stamina section.

2: I disagree with this, since Stain shouldn't have Fear Manipulation. That was just him being very intimidating, it's something that happens a lot in fiction. Especially since Stain is a known serial killer of Pro Heroes. Also Gran Torino said what Stain gave off was the same thing that All Might gives off.

Izuku also compares All Might's presence to Stain during their fight, while both Bakugo and himself can move just fine.

3: Rage Power seems more accurate to me.

4: This seems fine. However Wounded/Prime All Might, AFO, and Izuku should have this as well. All Might is obvious but AFO also revealed that the consciousness of the people who's Quirks he takes usually haunts him. Even stating what's happening within OFA is the same thing.

5: I guess, I'm not really sure on this. I'll let someone else decide, but it should really just be a limited resistance if accepted.
Though I guess AFO should be able to help Shigaraki against mind control like the vestiges did for Izuku.

6: I disagree with this, he isn't even really mad he's just has an evil/twisted mind. Madness Manipulation is like with Berserker in F/SN, becoming a mindless beast.
Also someone like Joker isn't given resistance to madness manipulation despite being far more twisted than Shigaraki.

7: Disagree, nothing was happening to anyone's soul. That was framed as more of a mental battle, with the one who had the stronger will being victorious. He wasn't manipulating anyone's souls, it was a tug of war for OFA. Izuku's or anyone's soul wasn't implied to be in any danger, even if Shigaraki had taken OFA.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

I forgot to mention this, but Shigaraki does feel less pain than he normally would because of Rivet stab, because I didn't think I'd need to defend this point. read chapter 290 for evidence AFO states he used Rivet stab to lower the burden on his body and mind.

 

[Rikimarox2]

2: I disagree with this, since Stain shouldn't have Fear Manipulation. That was just him being very intimidating, it's something that happens a lot in fiction. Especially since Stain is a known serial killer of Pro Heroes. Also Gran Torino said what Stain gave off was the same thing that All Might gives off.

So, stain's fear manip is just social influencing? If so, should we change it with this CRT or smth?

 

[TheRustyOne]

I forgot to mention this, but Shigaraki does feel less pain than he normally would because of Rivet stab, because I didn't think I'd need to defend this point. read chapter 290 for evidence AFO states he used Rivet stab to lower the burden on his body and mind.

Oh right I forgot, yeah that is resistance to pain manipulation right there.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

RustyOne regarding 2,6.

On 2, Considering Stain has that on his profile as fear manipulation, that's something saved for a different
and shigaraki's own fear manipulation has caused illusions of death, I'm not sure if you can just say it's intimidation anymore,

On 6. The definition of madness manipulation is for a character to go insane, His mind is quite literally broken we saw that in his mindscape. Also a character like Senku has Possible resistance to madness manipulation even though he's perfectly sane.(https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Senku_Ishigami)

(I Agree with 7.)

 

[TheRustyOne]

Note: I agree with Shigaraki having Fear Manipulation, what he does is completely different from Stain's thing. I don't disagree with that but then again that's not even mentioned in the OP.

His mind isn't literally broken, that scene doesn't mean anything. Senku shouldn't have that on his profile either, but lets not bring up other verses here.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

That was Shigaraki's mindscape and madness manipulation is defined as making a character go insane. He's been referred to numerous times as already being insane.

and AFO's ability which shigaraki's has been compared to has been referred to as a weaker version of AFO's fear manip(I'll find the panel in second).

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm not arguing this with you, just ask a staff member who's knowledgeable about this stuff and have them give their answer on this.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

I'm not arguing this with you, just ask a staff member who's knowledgeable about this stuff and have them give their answer on this.

Got anyone in mind.

 

[Abstractions]

Stain should not have Fear Manipulation, he's a physical threat and a scary guy, it's just intimidation and should therefore be removed as an ability.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Stain caused endeavor to be paralyzed even though endeavor was far FAR stronger than stain, and stopped him mid attack. Stain was in no way a physical threat to endeavor when that moment happened.

 

[Gabriel_00]

A power doesn't need to come from a supernatural source for it to be listed. Normal people can't paralize others with fear because they are "a scary guy". All might has air manipulation because of a side effect of his punches not as a part of his powers.

 

[Abstractions]

Stain caused endeavor to be paralyzed even though endeavor was far FAR stronger than stain, and stopped him mid attack. Stain was in no way a physical threat to endeavor when that moment happened.

That's still intimidation, he's a scary, unnerving guy, regardless of Endeavor being a bigger person. Are you suggesting powerlifters are incapable of having a fear of clowns?

A power doesn't need to come from a supernatural source for it to be listed. Normal people can't paralize others with fear because they are "a scary guy". All might has air manipulation because of a side effect of his punches not as a part of his powers.

False equivalency, especially when intimidation is being applied in a way to make it sound like someone can resist it from a supernatural source, I'm not scared of clowns but someone else could be, guess that means I'm unaffected by Ren.

You cannot attribute real life stuff like that to inherently supernatural abilities because it's heavily misleading. A lion's roar can be scary, but should not be listed as Fear Manipulation.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Ok, one step further, It wasn't until Stain passed out which wasn't noticeable by the eye than endeavor started moving again. Also stain's presence has been compared to characters like AFO/AM whose presence can be felt even if he doesn't even know a character is there.

 

[Abstractions]

Ok, one step further, It wasn't until Stain passed out which wasn't noticeable by the eye than endeavor started moving again. Also stain's presence has been compared to characters like AFO/AM whose presence can be felt even if he doesn't even know a character is there.

I would like you to provide the scans of this, especially if it didn't have any relation to his actual paralysis ability from his Blood Manipulation, context and understanding matters and can still easily argue against your claim.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Sure I'll put them in imgur.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

 

[Abstractions]

This could still easily be classified as Intimidation, he's being exceptionally more frightening.

In a world where everything is acknowledged a Quirk if it's supernatural to some capacity, this isn't even regarded as one anywhere, and is attributed moreso to his willpower and his intense conviction over everything else, you could at most argue it as Social Influencing but I'd still be skeptical.

EDIT: Think about it this way, naturally you may be scared of a Lion, but if it roars at you, you may be stunned or taken aback because you will take that as a sign of intense hostility, which this can still easily be compared to.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Ok then How about AFO who Stain's presence has been compared to who even before Deku knew he was there he had images of death.

 

[Abstractions]

Ok then How about AFO who Stain's presence has been compared to who even before Deku knew he was there he had images of death.

Could be gut instinct or intuition, AFO is a known contender to All Might, the #1 Hero who nobody can compete with, people have reason to be scared and frightened by him because it seems like a hopeless effort, Stain being compared to them could be due to the weight the title Hero Killer carries and the gossip behind it.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Ok, now your definitely off, in the same panel I showed you Deku clearly doesn't realize its AFO until after he has the images of death.
Gut instinct/intuition don't make sense in this case as that would imply they have some supernatural sensing ability that instantly alerts them of AFO's presence, not to mention that AFO isn't known in the MHA verse.
Deku even said as much when All might told him about it(He refers to him as just rumors on the internet), and Iida Todoroki Kirishima still felt the same imminent death despite having no idea who that dude even is and before even comprehending the situation.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Could be gut instinct or intuition, AFO is a known contender to All Might, the #1 Hero who nobody can compete with, people have reason to be scared and frightened by him because it seems like a hopeless effort, Stain being compared to them could be due to the weight the title Hero Killer carries and the gossip behind it.

No one but Deku knew who AFO was, yet they still got images of Death. They compared Stain to him because of the presence, not his title. Stain is the only person with the title hero killer, why would anyone compare him to someone else. Do you have anything backing up this claim of gossip?

Also, Deku beat Stain, yet he was paralyzed in fear by Stain's presence. Why would that happen if he's seen everything Stain could do and beat him.

Using your lion analogy: If i can beat a lion with my bare hands, and HAVE beat a lion with my bare hands, why would i be scared of that same lion roaring at me, when i have more people with stronger weapons with me now. That lion would logically be nothing to me, yet if i was still scared of the lion, in fact even MORE afraid of it than when i fought it alone, despite still wanting to fight it, then something is different.

Stain can induce fear in people that have literally defeated him by just stating his beliefs and walking forwards. That is not normal. Quirks are not the only measure of strength or power in MHA. Aura is as well, shown by AFO, AM and Shigaraki who have a supernatural amount of it. They don't gain it due to status, they gain it via their own will being superior to everyone elses.

 

[Abstractions]

Ok, now your definitely off, in the same panel I showed you Deku clearly doesn't realize its AFO until after he has the images of death.
Gut instinct/intuition don't make sense in this case as that would imply they have some supernatural sensing ability that instantly alerts them of AFO's presence, not to mention that AFO isn't known in the MHA verse.
Deku even said as much when All might told him about it, and Iida Todoroki Kirishima still felt the same imminent death despite having no idea who that dude even is and before even comprehending the situation.

I mean, you're still ignoring the Hero Killer bit carrying weight, which could give credence to the idea that he's seen as scary as AFO, doesn't make it fact.

Even in a generous scenario it still doesn't apply to anyone as resistance, it's a one time thing and everyone is varying levels of intimidated.

No one but Deku knew who AFO was, yet they still got images of Death. They compared Stain to him because of the presence, not his title. Stain is the only person with the title hero killer, why would anyone compare him to someone else. Do you have anything backing up this claim of gossip?

Are you going to ignore that titles carry weight and presence? Why would they compare him? I don't know, because he kills pro heroes frequently, that could make people compare him to someone worse, that's how stuff naturally spreads.

Also, Deku beat Stain, yet he was paralyzed in fear by Stain's presence. Why would that happen if he's seen everything Stain could do and beat him.

This was attributed to his intense conviction and willpower and never happens again, people you can beat up can still surprise you.

WThat lion would logically be nothing to me, yet if i was still scared of the lion, in fact even MORE afraid of it than when i fought it alone, despite still wanting to fight it, then something is different.

Explain the irrational fear of clowns, you can still be the physical superior to something and still end up afraid of it, that doesn't make it Fear Manipulation.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I mean, you're still ignoring the Hero Killer bit carrying weight, which could give credence to the idea that he's seen as scary as AFO, doesn't make it fact.

Even in a generous scenario it still doesn't apply to anyone as resistance, it's a one time thing and everyone is varying levels of intimidated.

Except he isn't, because no one knows who AFO really is. He's just a kinda known internet rumor of "shady evil guy." Only villains really know who AFO is or anyone involved in OFA.

One time doesn't mean it doesn't exist as an ability. Even if it's useless mid combat, he still has it.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Just to add to KingofWolves in chapter 59 when Deku first hears about AFO he states this "I've seen rumors on the internet, but I though it was all made up"

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Willpower in MHA is above quirks. It doesn't matter how strong someone is if your conviction is greater than theirs, and that is consistent. It's a rare occurrence because only 4 people have shown willpower like that, and Stain is one of them.

Stain's fear manip is a foreshadow for how Shigaraki gains his own fear manip, as well as set up for AM and AFO being even further above Stain in presence.

 

[Abstractions]

Willpower in MHA is above quirks. It doesn't matter how strong someone is if your conviction is greater than theirs, and that is consistent. It's a rare occurrence because only 4 people have shown willpower like that, and Stain is one of them.

Stain's fear manip is a foreshadow for how Shigaraki gains his own fear manip, as well as set up for AM and AFO being even further above Stain in presence.

If Willpower has been demonstrated multiple times to do this then I can't argue with that, I still disagree attempting to use Stain's as resistance for Shigaraki when it happened once and he wasn't around for it.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Correct, Stain's base aura isn't noteworthy and Shiggy never encountered the full force. So he doesn't get fear resistance from that.

He should, however, gain it from quite literally killing all of his fears while he was trapped in his own psyche.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

But, Shigaraki has been around for it when stain was doing the exact same speech, and shigaraki did not care. Its the 5th panel in the imgur in the OP.