Seperate Tier For SMG Mario

[HomestuckLover1]

Davy0, what you've been saying makes absolutely no sense.

You're saying that Mario and Base Bowser absolutely have to be on the same DC tier, when that's not the case at all.

 

[Davy0]

Considering they fight each other in both physical, mystical, and machiine-based combat all the time. And there were multiple times that Bowser faced Mario one-on-one with his natural abilities and showed speed and power superior to him at times... How is that even remotely "senseless".

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Okay. And both Peach and Yoshi have beaten Bowser physically before. I guess you're going to tell me they're on a higher level than Mario now?

 

[Professor_Voodoo]

No it's the name I have for Ant, I make nicknames for everyone. Except you. You're not Squiddy enough.

You're right. I'm not squiddy. I'm Skodwarde.

 

[Davy0]

Okay. And both Peach and Yoshi have beaten Bowser physically before. I guess you're going to tell me they're on a higher level than Mario now?

Just means they're all on par with Mario.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Davy0, you don't seem to get it. I just proved that Mario and co. in fact CAN be on a higher tier than Bowser which you seemed to be so heavily against.

 

[Davy0]

Davy0, you don't seem to get it. I just proved that Mario and co. in fact CAN be on a higher tier than Bowser which you seemed to be so heavily against.

Nooo, it just means they're on par with one another. You seem to be forgetting the fact that Peach gets regularly taken by Bowser. Luigi could be stronger than his brother, Yoshi has more physical ability that both the brothers, I agree. That doesn't stop them from being roughly on par with one another. You'd need to prove that they're that much stronger than Bowser. Then still prove that Mario has the same power he has in the Galaxy series outside of it. Just like everyone else does with their series, Homey.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Proof? They beat him on a daily basis. There's the proof.

Actually, it's the other way around. You'd need proof that Mario shouldn't be at that level.

 

[Davy0]

Proof? They beat him on a daily basis. There's the proof.
Actually, it's the other way around. You'd need proof that Mario shouldn't be at that level.

He hasn't shown enough evidence outside the series, and it could be (considering she protected them from the Supernova in the first game) that Rosalina also empowered his stats with her magic. Which was stated in WoG.

They beat him on a daily basis? Nah. Mario, Luigi and Yoshi beat him on a daily basis.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

I'd like to see this statement that says Rosalina empowered Mario throughout his fight with Bowser or anywhere in the game. The only thing considerable that she did was protect him from the Supernova. That's it. I really am starting to feel like you're making things up here.

IIRC, Peach has helped best Bowser on like 4 different occasions.

 

[Davy0]

Oh yes. Please show me a different time outside of the Galaxy series when Mario remotely had the power to do as he'd done. Right now I'm thinking more logically than you are, considering Mario also uses Luma star dust to traverse to different galaxies. Whose to say that he wasn't using collective energy from them in an instance. Making things up? Yeah sure man... Love the accusations though. How's that evidence coming for the series outside of SMG, any support for your claims?

She can help all she wants, then get kidnapped in the same instances just as much. Then again this is coming from a guy who likes to use non-canon games to beef up characters. So why am I even bothering.

But I'm not gonna go too deeply into that. You need to prove it or you don't, either way, Mario should just get the divider, but boosting all his stats when he has the potential to die from far less after the fact of the SMG games, kinda makes your case seem less sound. OH WAIT! There's no applicable TIMELINE to SMB other than the first three iterations which even then are ambiguous at best on when they take place.

Prehaps you can make that beautiful little timeline for us so we know exactly when Super Mario takes place so we can give him the boost. But as I said, if we're going by the games standing right now you'd need to prove exactly when it takes place so we can pinpoint the power up. And even then, if anything takes place after the game itself, prove that Mario still carries the same abilities as he does from the Galaxy series.

All I gotta say is, as a person that tries to study the Sonic to make sure it's ironclad. Get to work.

Otherwise the divider should be a-go.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with a divider.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

You're making things up right now by suggesting he gains energy from the Lumas whenever he uses a lauch star. And then in the sentence directly after that, you mention how I think you're just making things up is an accusation? That's some hilarious irony right there.

Oh look, the oldest PIS in Super Mario Bros being used in an argument. How original. Peach has fought Bowser on plenty of occasions to call it PIS. She's shown herself to be plenty capable of handing Bowser's ass to him. Also, what non-canon games are you referring to? You mean that DK racing game? Even though Word of God itself has stated that games like Mario Kart and Party actually play into the canon? No seriously, I could pull that statement out for you right now if you want. (Oh, but I guess it has to be non-canon no matter what, because it doesn't even have a story...)

Just because Mario hasn't done any higher after, doesn't mean we should immediately label it as PIS. Unless you have ANY iron clad proof that Mario couldn't be able to go that high if he wanted to, then it sticks. Also, Mario being able to be killed by lesser things like Goombas and such is a heavy case of gameplay stupidity. You're trying to use that to scale Mario down, when it would only scale his enemies up. You can't use that to bring him down or anyone up unless it appears in any unavoidable scene, like a cutscene.

You act like my whole argument is hanging on some thread that if I don't prove SMG is at the end of some Mario Timeline then I'm automatically wrong. That seems like you're grasping for straws Davy.

LOL. Really pal? Aren't you the guy who tried to get Sonic upgraded to planet level in base form because of one feat where he managed to hurt Dark Gaia in its baby state?

 

[Davy0]

Sure...

The oldest fallacy? you act like I'm discounting Mario's other feats. This is a different feat because it shows far more power from Mario than was ever seen, and it was only used in a single series. Unless you're implying Meowser is stronger than Bowser empowered by a Grand Star.

Then you need to prove it's not PIS. Just like everyone had to prove that DB wasn't BS, just like I still gotta prove that Sonic isn't Outlier, just like people had to prove Naruto was a Moon Buster before Boruto the movie. And so on.

Right... grasping for straws, sure. Have your delusions, after you prove all you need to, you can call me a complete moron and I'll take it like a champ.

You mean after Sonic had fought three planet busters and beaten an implied planet buster in his base form. Oh you're so funny... Then you're gonna have a lot of fun proving through only two games Mario is a star busting badass, aren't you. If I had four plates of proof and you only had two, man. It's gonna be extra tough, right?


Just saw you Ant. Yeah, let's just do the divider, or continue to listen to him moan even though Mario's still getting the feats, just not connected to his "usual" self, until proven otherwise. Is that OK with you, Homey-san?

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Did I imply that? I don't think I did.

There's no evidence against it. That seems like pretty damn good proof to me.

I didn't call you a moron.

Well like I said, there's an actual word of god statement that places Mario Party as canon and I can find plenty of great feats, not even from random minigames, but the minigames you're forced to play in the story mode and even cutscenes, such as Bowser being large planet level via his boss battle in the story mode for Party 9.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with a divider. Mario games have always seemed to have very loose continuity/lots of inconsistency between them.

 

[Davy0]

Then what's the issue here then with you. Because all we're doing is placing a divider instead of adding to his "normal" self.

I said you could if you could prove that Mario had that same power. Mario is known for its bad timeline and crappy consistency in concern to larger feats, if it wasn't for the fact of cutting it slack, it'd still be Building Level. At least other Nintendo series (even Donkey Kong which supposedly takes place in the same world/universe) has a better timeline than it, then again it has far fewer games as its own series.

Ahhhh so Large Planet Level is Star Busting now. Mario seems to have a lot of issues taking on a lot of lesser characters in the games. And when did I imply it wasn't canon, anyway? Well whatever. Anyway Ant has spoken, Divider it is.

 

[Antvasima]

So, who should write the statistics for SMG Mario, and what level should they be placed at? Also, please tell me when I should unlock the page.

 

[Davy0]

The person who does the usual changing of the page, I don't want Homey-san to think I despise Mario-sama.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I don't know where to place him, so you will have to talk about it.

 

[Davy0]

Eventually someone will see this and say "I volunteer" or something, no biggie.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would much prefer if the statistics were selected rationally than from a random or biased viewpoint.

 

[Davy0]

I don't think Homey-san is biased. Just confused.

 

[Antvasima]

I didn't mean him specifically. Just that it is better that people discuss how high SMG Mario should be placed before we change his tiers.

 

[Sheoth]

Hmm...

How about we remove the "+" from Bowser to simply Multi-Galaxy level, and also get rid of his possibly Universal rating, and then we can simply label Mario as Multi-Galaxy level+ instead for SMG.

 

[Antvasima]

What would be the rationale for downgrading Bowser?

 

[Sheoth]

True, there isn't any real reason for downgrading Bowser...

Why don't we just place them both at Multi-Galaxy+? Honestly I don't see any other way to look at it.

 

[Antvasima]

Let's wait for some further input.

 

[Sheoth]

Good idea.

 

[ThePerpetual]

I'm not averse to upgrading Mario, really. So we accept Multi-Galaxy Bowser, now?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, what were the feats that placed him at that level?

 

[ThePerpetual]

"(survived a black hole which razed the center of the universe and would have eventually consumed it)"

Currently, at least.

 

[Davy0]

I didn't mean him specifically. Just that it is better that people discuss how high SMG Mario should be placed before we change his tiers.

Ah. OK. Sorry Homey-san.

 

[Davy0]

"(survived a black hole which razed the center of the universe and would have eventually consumed it)"
Currently, at least.

SMG has Bowser in a black hole, yet when Mario states his celebration he says "Welcome New Galaxy!"

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Ah. OK. Sorry Homey-san.

Tis cool

 

[HomestuckLover1]

SMG has Bowser in a black hole, yet when Mario states his celebration he says "Welcome New Galaxy!"

That was because the Lumas/Rosalina sort of fused their galaxies together, as shown when all the weird creatures end up on Mario's planet.

Also I'm pretty sure he said "Galaxies"

 

[ThePerpetual]

Well, at any rate I don't remember an especially large timeframe involved, and it was inflicting some measure of outright cosmic destruction IIRC.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, even if the black hole could cause gradual universal destruction, that is nowhere near being able to destroy a universe in one quick blow. In addition, regarding his durability, we don't tend to count Black Hole feats in fictio, due to that they do not remotely behave like real ones, and as such turn unquantifiable. Also, were the galaxies truly normal-sized, and what were his destructive capacity feat that places him at that level?

 

[Davy0]

The Grand Stars have the power of a Galaxy or something. Engines to something should give them the power to use that something to full capacity even if it's not controllable right away. In this case, Bowser was in full control of his power.

 

[Antvasima]

So he created a black hole that could gradually destroy the universe?