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Scarlet Witch Speed (MCU)

How do you know it doesn't reach such high speeds? Because it has no such feats? Then that is evident as there is no way for us to measure a Mach 900 feat when Thor is 5 feet away from Mjolnir. Of course it'd look slow.

Regardless, Mjolnir's returning speed being faster than it's shooting speed is never a thing. I nfact, there are cases where it takes longer for it to return than to be thrown:

Thor quickly flungs Mjolnir into the furthest reaches of the galaxy almost instantly, but it takes around 60 seconds for it to return.
 
Comic showing is irrelevant to the MCU.

Anyways, Thor's hammer has visible queues when it's travelling very fast. It makes sonic booms when it goes supersonic and sets ablaze when it leaves the atmosphere.

Run it at 0.25x speed.
 
Gemmysaur said:
Comic showing is irrelevant to the MCU.
Anyways, Thor's hammer has visible queues when it's travelling very fast. It makes sonic booms when it goes supersonic and sets ablaze when it leaves the atmosphere.

Run it at 0.25x speed.
Click to expand...
No it isn't irrelevant. It's to show that Thor's hammer being faster on return is not a thing in any media.

And yes, sonic booms and shit do happen, but I am arguing about the fastest demonstrated speed here.
 
Comic feats isn't a solid argument, films treat things differently and you can't expect such a small detail to be the same.

It's not that i know for sure that it can't reach that speed by having Thor throw it, it's that there is a logical leap between the two.

It's like saying "a human can be taller than 1.9 m, Tyrion is a human, therefore Tyrion is taller than 1.9 m"
 
It is not. Why would it be when it's its own separate universe with its own separate showings? Besides, it does sonic booms while isolated (no people nearby), and slows down when near people or when turning at the streets. The hammer is all but sentient at this point.

Also, Thor has never shown to throw it with enough force to make sonic booms. Fastest demonstrated return speed is what you're showing, with no evidence that it's the same for throwing speed.
 
@Matt

Do you really not see anything wrong with "assuming something is moving at top speed even though we have no evidence they can react at that speed and we can clearly see they aren't moving that fast"?

Sonic at least directly tells us how fast we're moving. Unleashed has checkpoints that list your speed and certain abilities are listed as lightspeed. GotG has none of that. It has 1 instance of them moving at Mach 20 which you're then applying to every instance even though we have no indication they were going that quickly.

You cannot both say that the on-screen timeframe is inaccurate and variable and also say that the timeframe is accurate enough to both calc and then apply to every other timeframe there is.

Also, Thor's hammer is thrown for about 2 seconds around minute one in his fight against the Frost Giants and returns in about a quarter to half a second.
 
You still haven't shown any solid argument for it being faster when it is further away, and even then for being faster on return. You just say it is because the best feat that was calculated was from returning speed.

Which is hilarious, because the same scene shows that the throwing speed is faster:

https://youtu.be/ObT5whcJNEk?t=103

And Malekith reacted to that shit from meters away by phasing.

/kuppo

Also your analogy doesn't make sense, I"m sorry.
 
It literally sped up the moment the distance between it and Thor became large because portals. That in itself is evidence that it speeds up on its own, not because of Thor's strength.

You haven't shown anything on the contrary other than that comic panel which isn't even relevant to the MCU.

Your video also didn't show me anything to help your point. The throw wasn't anything special, but when the hammer pointed upwards, it sped up tremendously.
 
@Xcano

Do you really see nothing wrong with assuming the lowest possible? Probably not.

What I am doing is perhaps too simple, but allow me to reiterate: They can fly at minimum, ridiculously lowballed speeds of Mach 20+, and they use the same device that allows them to fly at such speeds through it's boosters to fight, dodging and dashing and reacting.

Your argument is "Because we don't know for certain that they are always Mach 20, we have to assume that they are not."

That's not intellectually sound. It is downplaying, taking the minimum assumption for no reason but doing it, while also pretending to be intellectual. It is no different than saying "We have no reason to assume Mach 20 is the maximum speed, so let's apply a x2 multiplier to it".

It comes out of left field and requires tons of speculating not supported or provided by the scenes in question.
 
Gemmysaur said:
It literally sped up the moment the distance between it and Thor became large because portals. That in itself is evidence that it speeds up on its own, not because of Thor's strength.
You haven't shown anything on the contrary other than that comic panel which isn't even relevant to the MCU.

Your video also didn't show me anything to help your point. The throw wasn't anything special, but when the hammer pointed upwards, it sped up tremendously.
Click to expand...
>Sped up because portal

Since when the portals ever sped anything up?

Why the hell would it speed up on its own? To be fancy? Your argument borders on a thinking Mjolnir now.
 
Jucaslucas said:
Malekith can't phase. Pretty sure the hammer went through one of the portals that were appearing randomly.
Click to expand...
Ah, you're right.

Still doesn't change a thing, numerous characters react to Thor's Mjolnir, and you have no reason to assume that Thor going all out wouldn't be throwing his hammer with all his force and thus producing such speeds.

/kuppo
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
>Sped up because portal

Since when the portals ever sped anything up?

Why the hell would it speed up on its own? To be fancy? Your argument borders on a thinking Mjolnir now.
Click to expand...
>Sped up on its own because it got separated via portal that randomly appears.

>Sped up far, far, far faster than when Thor threw it to get back to the planet of whatever that Thor is on.

Why would it not when it's explicitly shown to do just that. You need more proof to help your side of the argument. Hell, when Thor got backhanded by the Destroyer, it flew fast enough to sonic boom to get to Thor.
 
@Matt

That video literally shows 2 things:

1. Thor doesn't throw Mjolnir supersonic

2. Mjolnir, on its own, can accelerate to supersonic speeds without Thor's help (you can see the mach cone forming and then hear the sonic boom right after it turns upwards to travel to Thor)

As for the rest:

Okay, no. Mach 20 isn't the minimum speed of the jetpacks. That would be 0 m/s. Mach 20 is just a speed that we've seen them achieve. We regularly see them travelling well below that.

"Things are happening as they appear on screen" is speculation? And assuming that there's a secret slow-motion thing going on with no indication of that in every scene where they use the jetpacks isn't?
 
No, not at all.

"We regularly see them travelling well below that."

Do we? Your only argument is "they don't look that fast. They can easily reach minimum speeds of Mach 20 and React, Dash and Maneuver with the Jet Boosts. There's nothing to indicate that they wouldn't scale other than the possibility that they wouldn't, which of course you take as an absolute certainty.

And it's not assumptions. Scenes take place from the perspectives of the characters, and are typically going to show how they are seeing things.

And Mjolnir can accelerate when thrown now? I thought that the speed was the result of Thor's strength only, and not Mjolnir's magical capabilities. Are you implying that both Mjolnir dashing forward and returning are similar procedures?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
And Mjolnir can accelerate when thrown now? I thought that the speed was the result of Thor's strength only, and not Mjolnir's magical capabilities. Are you implying that both Mjolnir dashing forward and returning are similar procedures?
Click to expand...
Yes. It literally was shown that. Mjolnir can fly, and accelerate on its own towards Thor, there's no getting around that as it's been shown more than once to be able to do it on its own.

Are you implying that it can't when we were literally shown it did just that?
 
@Gemmy

No, but it's pretty ironic that you people were previously saying that Mach 900 Mjolnir doesn't scale because it's Return Speed, because that is Magic and the former is strength, but now you yourself admit that Thrown Mjolnir is also magic.

Good to know we're on the same page on this now.
 
@Matt

I argue that Mach 900 doesn't scale to Thor, only Mjolnir by itself. That's all. I could care less how the hammer works tbh, whether it's magic, or science, or Thor's strength being so massive that it can pull the hammer back without touching it.

We're still not on the same page, and if it's about whether or not the hammer's self-induced flight speed scales to Thor, we may never be. Regardless, we're getting off-topic and all with Thor and the GOTG, when Wanda is the character in discussion here.
 
@Jucas It's kinda relevant towards determining if SW's feat is an outlier or not.

@Matt I know they can reach Mach 20. But applying it to every instance of it appearing seems like getting consistency through an odd use of circular reasoning. It's going like:

The one jetpack feat isn't an outlier/them going faster than usual. The other instances of them using the jetpacks is just in slow motion. We know they are in slow motion and not just moving as fast as they appear because the jetpack feat isn't an outlier/them going faster than usual. We know this is true because...

So on and so forth for infinity.
 
They are not depicted as moving faster than usual in their feat which is being lawballed at Mach 20+. The speed isn't even emphasized.

In their fights while using jetpacks, they do everything you'd need to showcase Combat Speed. Dashing, Dodging, Reacting, Maneuvering Rapidly, etc.

The only argument to say that they weren't Mach 20 is to suddenly assume that they wouldn't be moving at such speeds, and your argument is based entirely on visuals, which are nonsensical to use to feats faster than what humans can see, as they will almost always be slowed down specially when the story is from the perspective of the guys doing the feats.

My argument is nothing like the ad-infinitum you suggested. That's a strawman.
 
@Matt The first and second paragraphs aren't relevant to my point.

As for the third paragraph:

"The only argument to say that they weren't Mach 20 is to suddenly assume that they wouldn't be moving at such speeds, and your argument is based entirely on visuals"

I would say an argument based on what we actually see occurring is better than one based on speculation about what might possibly be occurring.

"as they will almost always be slowed down specially when the story is from the perspective of the guys doing the feats."

Do you have any evidence there's slow motion going on? For example, a clock running slowly? Gravity being "slower" than usual? Sounds being stretched out/muffled? A statement that this is happening faster than the eye can see? Something else in the scene to compare it to (a bullet or lightning for example)? A sonic boom going off? Everyone else moving incredibly slowly to the cast? Anything?

If not - Why assume it when everything goes against it?
 
At the very least can wanda be upgraded to Subsonic reactions for this (Comparable to HawkEye)? Normal Human speed seems off when She's can react and stop attacks from BP, BW, etc.

Also, Since Thor is a current Subject, has his Speed Feat in Sakovia been calced yet? When he was about to Bust the city, Everything around him that was flying off the falling Sakovia went slow motion. Even Vision flying to Save Wanda had the stuff around moving slow motion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnfmmp_Kjek (36 - 1:16 seconds)
 
@Barry I see no problem with Subsonic reactions Wanda. As for the Sokovia thing, I'm pretty sure that wasn't everything being in slow motion as much as it was the city falling and things going upwards. Like this.
 
LordXcano said:
@Barry I see no problem with Subsonic reactions Wanda. As for the Sokovia thing, I'm pretty sure that wasn't everything being in slow motion as much as it was the city falling and things going upwards. Like this.
Click to expand...
I don't think the 0 G is applicable here due to Newtons First Law. The City was in free fall for 8 seconds before the blasters reversed and Started pushing the City. By that point the city was already falling 90% Terminal Velocity.

It then spent an additional 17 seconds being pushed by blasters. By this point in time, the things debris wouldn't be moving Slow Motion due to 0 G like conditions. Iirc, free falling doesn't create 0 G like conditions either.

And then with Vision, he was going so fast the large objects looked stationary.
 
@Barry I think you might be picturing this wrong. Pick up a ball or a rock with an open palm and then move your hand downwards, that's what's happening here. In order for what we see happening to occur Sokovia would only need to be accelerating downwards at a rate a bit higher than everything else in the city, which creates the effect of them slowly moving upwards.

Using an analogy that doesn't incorporate acceleration, Sokovia is moving down at 55 m/s while the debris is moving down at 50 m/s. This creates an apparent scene of slow motion since they are only moving at a relative 5 m/s to each other.

Regardless, since figuring out how much time is dilated here would require a freefall calculation that can't be done since everything is moving up, not down, it wouldn't be quantifiable anyways.
 
@Matthew Please calm down. Getting worked up over discussions about fiction is not making you any friends among the staff, and cause a bad atmosphere within the wiki.
 
So why isn't SW supersonic in reactions? She has blocked repulsors and gunfire from close range, and she only put her shield over rumlow after the bomb went off
 
Gonna have to put some video/gif links of Wanda reacting to gunfire and repulsors.

Also, video/gif/blogs detailing how repulsors are supersonic.

Also, proof that Wanda reacted to the explosion, regardless of whether or not her shield went up after it exploded (she was offscreen, and an argument can be made that she saw Rumlow pull the trigger out and shielded him, but coincidentally, the shield only went up after the explosion began).
 
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