Scaling Stamina

[AKM sama]

Sounds good.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I agree with SamanPatou draft.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine to apply, yes.

 

[SamanPatou]

I put the text on the Stamina page, this thread can be closed.

 

[SamanPatou]

What about:

Stamina, encompassing endurance and tolerance, is a factor that heavily depends on one's own body, the way it stores and burns energy and how it reacts to external stimuli, fatigue, stress and more. This usually is the product of a specific training, lifestyle and physiology, featuring differences even among the members of the same species, and thus it heavily depends on the comformation of a single individual. On top of that, it is often related to willpower and determination, making it even more unique.
For this reason it is recommended to not scale stamina between characters that are comparable or superior to each other in terms of statistics such as Attack Potency, Durability etc.
It should be allowed only when levels of stamina are explicitly defined as common and natural traits shared by members of the same species or group, or through direct statements and evidences of characters being comparable in such aspect.

This explanation was deleted when the recent stamina revision was applied, most likely because of an accident, so I'm just asking permission to add it back since it is important to prevent general stamina scaling.

@Antvasima @AKM sama @Promestein @DontTalkDT

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is best to wait to see what Promestein thinks, given that she wrote our new stamina standards.

 

[SamanPatou]

The idea itself should still be kept because we've decided to not scale stamina between characters just because they are comparabe in AP or belong to the same species, it doesn't affect the levels themselves.

I can see asking for some rewording, though.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am personally fine with you re-adding the text segment at least.

 

[SamanPatou]

Yes, the point was exactly to just re-add the text segment.

Still, as you said, it might be best to wait for Prom to provide opinions and such about where to put it, or if any changes has to be made for the sake of the new structure of the page.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

 

[Promestein]

Ehhhh. I agree with the idea that we should get some sort of statement discouraging Stamina scaling, but I don't think we should outright necessitate explicit comparisons. When a bunch of characters in a work are comparable, fight each other constantly, and so on, unless a character has absurd stamina feats that only they accomplish or things are suggested or implied to be character-specific, stuff like fighting for a long period of time feels weird to disqualify from other characters even though it's not a character-specific property.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah I think this should be case by case, we don't need hard rules

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What do you think Saman?

 

[Nierre]

Agree with Armor and Prom

 

[SamanPatou]

When a bunch of characters in a work are comparable, fight each other constantly, and so on,

I mean, these are reasons.

What I want to prevent is scaling stamina to characters who are just comparable or superior in AP and have fought once, or such, or just share the same race, team or such without further details.

Yeah I think this should be case by case, we don't need hard rules

They aren't exactly hard rules, I can shorten the description, but I still think we should point it out.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Scaling stamina has always felt weird to me personally. Sometimes it can make sense but it also definitely doesn't make sense for some characters. There's also factors like certain people being simply bad matchups and a comparable character in their group fighting for longer periods of time because they're a better fit for the enemy

But stamina is also a very inconsistent stat, as there's lots of jokey examples in verses where characters get tired doing relatively mundane or tame tasks, but then when serious can fight for hours and hours with no signs of tiring.

Would we opt to use the longest time a person has fought or kept standing as that's when they were going all out and treating the scenario seriously?

I also find the ratings for stamina vary undefined. Some profiles will just say something like "High" "Very High" "Superhuman" "Godly" and the justifications could be in the same ballpark like fighting for days on end. Though I suppose that's more of a case-by-case fix people can make when they see them.

 

[SamanPatou]

Keep in mind that this thread isn't about revising stamina as whole, we've just had such revision and further changes need their own thread.

Here the point is to not scale character A's stamina to character B's just without very solid evidences.
Like, we can't scale Goku to Frieza just because the former is stronger and won their battle.

If you can give reasons, sure, but we can't let people do "all these people are martial artists and are roughly comparable in AP, this means they have the same stamina" or "these characters are all lizardmen, so they all have the same rating of lizardman A".

Stamina heavily depends on one's own physique, the way it stores and burns energy and how it reacts to external factors. This is usually the product of aspects such as training, lifestyle, physiology and more, featuring differences even among the members of the same species, and thus it heavily depends on the single individual.
For these reasons it is recommended to not scale stamina between characters that are comparable or superior to each other in terms of statistics such as Attack Potency, Durability etc.
It should be allowed only when levels of stamina are explicitly defined as common and natural traits shared by members of the same species or group, or through direct statements and evidences of characters being comparable in such aspect.

What about this shortened version of the previous sentence? I think it transmits the concept, while remaining general enough to not look like a strict rule.

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

So would you be fine with if we restore some version of this text, Promestein?

 

[SamanPatou]

Sorry to tag you @Promestein, but what do you think about the shortened text proposed above?

 

[Promestein]

Sure, whatever

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that it can probably be added then.

 

[SamanPatou]

Thanks, I will add it then.

While I'm at it, I'm also adding this sentence from the Editing Rules page, which is quite important for the stamina page itself:
Please note that characters that are mechanical or undead should not automatically be assumed to possess infinite stamina, unless this trait has been clearly defined within the series or by the lore

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that would also be appreciated. Thank you. Lots of members have made that mistake.