- 4,333
- 291
Savage Opress should be downgraded to "At least 7-C+", as some of the justifications for his profile are inconsistent with other scenes, or just downright false. There's also evidence that knocks him down a few pegs.
1) Pressured Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker two one
He likely still had some measure of an amp from his emotions, but this is regardless an outlier, especially considering it's an early appearance.. See why soon.
2) Fighting Asajj Ventress and Dooku
First off, Dooku reduces Savage to his knees in two seconds via force lightning, showing vast superiority over him. Second, watching that fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s3x8ox2ToE), he wasn't fighting a battle royale until the very end. For over a minute on screen and during much of it, Dooku is just sidestepping everything and doesn't even look like he's taking the fight seriously if you ask me, but I'll leave that up to you. regardless, the closest thing to a decent hit Savage gets in is smacking the Count with a blunt strike, something Dooku is noted to be weak against due to the nature of Makashi. And again, he subdues Savage multiple times with ease. For a chunk of that fight he doesn't even have a lightsaber and is still winning. Savage flat out says "he's too powerful", implying a great power gap that is reinforced by Dooku casually bringing him to his knees. You could argue that Savage choking him out implies comparable power, but Savage was outraged at that point by his abusive masters, and such emotions have a history of buffing SW characters (I,E, Ventress herself choking Anakin and Obi Wan, the former whom stomps her in the Season 5 finale, and the latter whom defeated her multiple times). And again, Dooku's just fine 2 seconds later and has enough power to blast him with lightning again.
3) On that note, his telekinesis is shown to be much weaker than other high 7-C characters during his training with Dooku unless he has an emotional outburst, generally one of rage. Again, this is not uncommon in SW by any means.
4) Fighting Adi Gallia and winning is not High 7-C
The justification for her tier is fighting Savage, supposedly making her superior to Ventress because Ventress fears him. The reason for this, if you ask me, is because she knows what Savage is capable of while Gallia went in blind. They have more or less the same performance against Savage (that is, very poor), but this doesn't make Savage High 7-C. it just means that he's a higher end of 7-C than they are. And if Kenobi held his own very well against Savage + the much stronger Maul, the former of whom easily defeated Gallia, I would say that proves she's considerably far off in power from top tier council masters.
5) Maul vs Savage
Near the end of Savage's life, he's still curbstomped by Maul despite going at him with considerable rage. And then he's physically overpowered, showing that he's both outskilled and physically outmathced
6) Maul and Savage vs Kenobi
Three things to note once it's 2v1. First off, Savage is getting carried by Maul, and would've literally killed him in 3 seconds after Gallia was killed, and later gets his knee popped by Kenobi followed by losing an arm. Third, he gets put on the defensive any time Maul isn't right next to him. The first time, Kenobi drop kicks him and would've bisected him, the second time (after Kenobi kicks Maul away for a few seconds), he immediately starts overwhelming Savage and likely would've pulled a Mustafar right here (3:42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE_CVWMWK74&t=285s) if Maul didn't come right back. Then, after a few kicks he literally brings Savage to his knee with a kick. And then he loses his arm after getting his knee popped. literally every moment Savage goes against Kenobi 1v1 to even a remote degree has Kenobi kicking his ass pretty handily. He likely would've stomped Savage outright if it was just a 1v1, seeing as he is always portrayed as either stronger or roughly equal to Maul, see point 5
7) Sidious vs Maul and Savage
I knew from the start of watching the episode "Lawless" that the brothers were doomed when Sidious showed up (we probably all did), but one thing that one might bring up is that he briefly fought Sidious 1v1 before being killed roughly midway in the fight, utperforming Kit Fisto, another High 7-C (I wouldn't say the same for Saesee Tinn or Agen Kolar, since neither has feats that would put them above Grievous). I feel a counter to this is context, namely regarding the demeanor of both parties in both battles. When fighting the brothers, Sidious is clearly enjoying himself, seeing as he manhandles them literally 1 second into the fight before letting them duel him, only getting mildly irritated at worst, and Maul is well, crapping himself when Sidious shows up, for a lack of a better word. When Windu's team shows up, Sidious knows it's all or nothing there, and I we'd all agree Windu does too. Now, I will be the first to say that I think Sidious threw the fight and would've won if it kept going, and I will maintain that for reasons not relevent to this thread. Regardless however, Palpatine approached his fight with the brothers as some kind of sick joke and a minor threat at worst, whereas against Windu it was again, all or nothing. Thus I do not think the similar performance of Fisto and Opress would suggest Opress being comparable or superior to Fisto.
TLDR; Savage died in a few seconds against a casual Sidious 1v1. Fisto died in a few seconds against a bloodlusted Sidious.
OVERALL: Savage Opress should be downgraded to "At least 7-C+", as the justification for his profile is flimsy or in the case of fighting Anakin and Kenobi 2v1, completely outlierish, he has many showings that put him below other High 7-C's, sometimes getting crushed by them 1v1, even if he is possibly the strongest 7-C+ in star wars. By extension, Disney Canon Adi Gallia should be downgraded to 7-C+
1) Pressured Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker two one
He likely still had some measure of an amp from his emotions, but this is regardless an outlier, especially considering it's an early appearance.. See why soon.
2) Fighting Asajj Ventress and Dooku
First off, Dooku reduces Savage to his knees in two seconds via force lightning, showing vast superiority over him. Second, watching that fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s3x8ox2ToE), he wasn't fighting a battle royale until the very end. For over a minute on screen and during much of it, Dooku is just sidestepping everything and doesn't even look like he's taking the fight seriously if you ask me, but I'll leave that up to you. regardless, the closest thing to a decent hit Savage gets in is smacking the Count with a blunt strike, something Dooku is noted to be weak against due to the nature of Makashi. And again, he subdues Savage multiple times with ease. For a chunk of that fight he doesn't even have a lightsaber and is still winning. Savage flat out says "he's too powerful", implying a great power gap that is reinforced by Dooku casually bringing him to his knees. You could argue that Savage choking him out implies comparable power, but Savage was outraged at that point by his abusive masters, and such emotions have a history of buffing SW characters (I,E, Ventress herself choking Anakin and Obi Wan, the former whom stomps her in the Season 5 finale, and the latter whom defeated her multiple times). And again, Dooku's just fine 2 seconds later and has enough power to blast him with lightning again.
3) On that note, his telekinesis is shown to be much weaker than other high 7-C characters during his training with Dooku unless he has an emotional outburst, generally one of rage. Again, this is not uncommon in SW by any means.
4) Fighting Adi Gallia and winning is not High 7-C
The justification for her tier is fighting Savage, supposedly making her superior to Ventress because Ventress fears him. The reason for this, if you ask me, is because she knows what Savage is capable of while Gallia went in blind. They have more or less the same performance against Savage (that is, very poor), but this doesn't make Savage High 7-C. it just means that he's a higher end of 7-C than they are. And if Kenobi held his own very well against Savage + the much stronger Maul, the former of whom easily defeated Gallia, I would say that proves she's considerably far off in power from top tier council masters.
5) Maul vs Savage
Near the end of Savage's life, he's still curbstomped by Maul despite going at him with considerable rage. And then he's physically overpowered, showing that he's both outskilled and physically outmathced
6) Maul and Savage vs Kenobi
Three things to note once it's 2v1. First off, Savage is getting carried by Maul, and would've literally killed him in 3 seconds after Gallia was killed, and later gets his knee popped by Kenobi followed by losing an arm. Third, he gets put on the defensive any time Maul isn't right next to him. The first time, Kenobi drop kicks him and would've bisected him, the second time (after Kenobi kicks Maul away for a few seconds), he immediately starts overwhelming Savage and likely would've pulled a Mustafar right here (3:42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE_CVWMWK74&t=285s) if Maul didn't come right back. Then, after a few kicks he literally brings Savage to his knee with a kick. And then he loses his arm after getting his knee popped. literally every moment Savage goes against Kenobi 1v1 to even a remote degree has Kenobi kicking his ass pretty handily. He likely would've stomped Savage outright if it was just a 1v1, seeing as he is always portrayed as either stronger or roughly equal to Maul, see point 5
7) Sidious vs Maul and Savage
I knew from the start of watching the episode "Lawless" that the brothers were doomed when Sidious showed up (we probably all did), but one thing that one might bring up is that he briefly fought Sidious 1v1 before being killed roughly midway in the fight, utperforming Kit Fisto, another High 7-C (I wouldn't say the same for Saesee Tinn or Agen Kolar, since neither has feats that would put them above Grievous). I feel a counter to this is context, namely regarding the demeanor of both parties in both battles. When fighting the brothers, Sidious is clearly enjoying himself, seeing as he manhandles them literally 1 second into the fight before letting them duel him, only getting mildly irritated at worst, and Maul is well, crapping himself when Sidious shows up, for a lack of a better word. When Windu's team shows up, Sidious knows it's all or nothing there, and I we'd all agree Windu does too. Now, I will be the first to say that I think Sidious threw the fight and would've won if it kept going, and I will maintain that for reasons not relevent to this thread. Regardless however, Palpatine approached his fight with the brothers as some kind of sick joke and a minor threat at worst, whereas against Windu it was again, all or nothing. Thus I do not think the similar performance of Fisto and Opress would suggest Opress being comparable or superior to Fisto.
TLDR; Savage died in a few seconds against a casual Sidious 1v1. Fisto died in a few seconds against a bloodlusted Sidious.
OVERALL: Savage Opress should be downgraded to "At least 7-C+", as the justification for his profile is flimsy or in the case of fighting Anakin and Kenobi 2v1, completely outlierish, he has many showings that put him below other High 7-C's, sometimes getting crushed by them 1v1, even if he is possibly the strongest 7-C+ in star wars. By extension, Disney Canon Adi Gallia should be downgraded to 7-C+
