SatAM Sonic refuses to read the Bible

[RicardoSama]

So dang long, can anyone sum it up for me and tell me the win cons, resist, and who likely to win

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Bottom line is, you're comparing scaling between vehicles with weapons that can be in a vast variety of tiers with two people trading punches. It's not the same thing.

 

[Idazmi]

1. Durability always scales to AP has far as physical blows are concerned. If they didn't, they'd explode from the force of their own punches. All of your examples involve projectiles, which is a completely different matter unrelated to this fight.

2. If two characters can trade direct physical blows with each other, be they punches, sword exchanges, or what have you, then their AP and Durability would directly scale. That's literally how this entire site works. We're not changing the entire scaling system just because you don't agree with it.

I never said that Bibleman's durability couldn't be scaled to his enemies' AP (assuming they hurt him). I said Bibleman's AP can't be assumed as the same as his ow durability. That, and Bibleman AND his enemies use weapons, so my point is entirely valid.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I never said that Bibleman's durability couldn't be scaled to his enemies' AP (assuming they hurt him). I said Bibleman's AP can't be assumed as the same as his ow durability. That, and Bibleman AND his enemies use weapons, so my point is entirely valid.

I fail to see how you misunderstood my point. Yes, it can. Because he can trade physical blows with people who can harm him. The weapons are irrelevant as they aren't using solely projectiles like a tank would. So long as they can trade blows, they scale, in both AP and Durability. That's literally basic scaling that this entire site uses.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Are they in character in this fight?

 

[Idazmi]

I fail to see how you misunderstood my point. Yes, it can. Because he can trade physical blows with people who can harm him. The weapons are irrelevant as they aren't using solely projectiles like a tank would. So long as they can trade blows, they scale, in both AP and Durability. That's literally basic scaling that this entire site uses.

They aren't just trading punches.

They are using energy swords that can effortlessly cut through steel, lightning beams, and a weapon that can vaporize groups of people (which was used to scale Bibleman's durability - not a punch). Unless his fist can also effortlessly cut through steel and vaporize people, I don't see what you're getting at.

Edit: That's not even getting into the nature of his armor, which could have any number of different properties aside from a flat durability boost against everything.

 

[EnnardTrap1987]

Yeah, they are literally only using beam swords.

Bibleman downgrade, when?

 

[Idazmi]

Yeah, they are literally only using beam swords.

Bibleman downgrade, when?

Did you not notice all the other weapons in the series, mate, or was this a weird attempt at a joke?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

If you think those weapons, most of which are still melee weapons, change anything, I'd just like to remind you of the precedent set by Star Wars. Same shit there, yet we still do the same scaling. Because they're still trading physical blows.

 

[Idazmi]

If you think those weapons, most of which are still melee weapons, change anything, I'd just like to remind you of the precedent set by Star Wars. Same shit there, yet we still do the same scaling. Because they're still trading physical blows.

The lightning attacks, and the vaporization attack that gave Bibleman his durability calc were not melee attacks. That, and Obi-Wan's fight with General Grievous shows quite plainly that lightsabers are more effective than physical blows:


Star Wars Episode III Obi-Wan vs. General Grievous-0

At 0:48 the lightsaber clearly cuts through Grievous like butter, while Obi-Wan's kick at 4:08 did little more than amuse Grievous because he injured himself. By contrast, Grievous's kick at 3:38 sent Obi-Wan flying across the room. It's made very clear that Obi-Wan is NOT as physically strong as Grievous, period, as through the whole fight he needed weapons (lightsaber, electrostaff, blaster) to keep up.

By the same logic, Bibleman's weapons are not irrelevant to his AP.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

The lightsabers not being irrelevant was never my point. Yes, the ignore durability, but Jedi can still trade strikes with them. Physical force goes behind those strikes when the blades connect. So they still scale.

Besides, it's accepted the Star Wars lightsabers ignore durability. Not so with Bibleman's weapons.

Finally, the attacks that gave Bibleman his stats are not the point. The point is, he traded blows with people who can hurt him. That causes both his stats to scale.

 

[Idazmi]

The lightsabers not being irrelevant was never my point. Yes, the ignore durability, but Jedi can still trade strikes with them. Physical force goes behind those strikes when the blades connect. So they still scale.

I never argued that. I argued that the physical force behind his blows isn't proven to scale to human vaporization. His durability is not necessarily the same as his AP. By the way, you trade blows with your strength: no one trades blows with their jawbone.

Besides, it's accepted the Star Wars lightsabers ignore durability. Not so with Bibleman's weapons.

How do you know? Bibleman's AP was scaled to a sword similar to his own that could "effortlessly cut through steel", which is what Obi-Wan's lightsaber just did. Also, are you trying to say that Bibleman does as much damage with the sword as he does without it? That's not true of any weapon. The point of any weapon, fictional or not, is to increase the deadliness of the wielder.

Finally, the attacks that gave Bibleman his stats are not the point. The point is, he traded blows with people who can hurt him. That causes both his stats to scale.

Obi-Wan traded blows with Grievous. Trying that without a lightsaber was a mistake, but he did trade blows with him.

 

[Idazmi]

On another note,


Luke Learns Vader Is His Father 1080p-0

Vader's armor deflected Luke's lightsaber at 0:59, so lightsabers don't ignore durability: they surpass it.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

On another note,

Vader's armor deflected Luke's lightsaber at 0:59, so lightsabers don't ignore durability: they surpass it.

That just means Vader's armor is resistant enough to heat to take hits. So, yes, they do negate durability. Ask literally any Star Wars fan on here and they'll say the same thing

 

[Idazmi]

That just means Vader's armor is resistant enough to heat to take hits. So, yes, they do negate durability. Ask literally any Star Wars fan on here and they'll say the same thing

1. And how can it be resistant to a thing that ignores durability by definition? What we see is Vader's armor being durable enough to take a hit from a lightsaber, where Grievous's armor could not. Whether that's in the form of heat resistance, impact resistance, or what have you, it's not "durability negation": the material being "cut" is simply beneath the threshold to withstand the lightsaber. like say, how plate armor isn't as protective against bullets as modern ballistic plates.

In any case, I'll take what I see in the films over fan commentary of any sort.

2. We are still talking about Bibleman, and as the lightsabers show (and were only intended to show), weapons are designed to make the user more lethal than they would be without the weapon. Thus, the force behind Bibleman's attack is augmented by his use of a weapon. Even then, we haven't proven that his AP scales to human vaping.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

1. Dude, what? Yes, you can be resistant to a thing that ignores durability. Going by your logic, no one would be resistant to soul manipulation because "it ignores durability by definition". And, yes, heat is a minor form of durability negation. It's literally how lightsabers are treates here. Bullets are also a terrible example, as they ignore durability to an extent via piercing damage.

2. Author intent means nothing here, if that's your argument. I don't know how else to explain this too you. By trading sword strikes, they're trading blows evenly, to enough of an extent where the two stats scale.

I'm honestly beginning to think you're trolling at this point.

 

[Idazmi]

1. Dude, what? Yes, you can be resistant to a thing that ignores durability. Going by your logic, no one would be resistant to soul manipulation because "it ignores durability by definition". And, yes, heat is a minor form of durability negation. It's literally how lightsabers are treates here. Bullets are also a terrible example, as they ignore durability to an extent via piercing damage.

Ah, I thought you meant lightsabers simply ignored durability entirely, rather than increasing the user's ability to do damage. In any case, this very conveniently shows that they augment the users AP: same should apply to Bibleman.

Edit: and both of us know that Soul Manipulation is not any kind of physical attack, and thus is a different matter entirely.

2. Author intent means nothing here, if that's your argument. I don't know how else to explain this too you. By trading sword strikes, they're trading blows evenly, to enough of an extent where the two stats scale.

I'm not arguing authorial intent. I'm arguing for observation of event: where are the blows of Bibleman or his foes show to scale to human vaporization?

I'm honestly beginning to think you're trolling at this point.

You should easily be able to tell by my comments that I'm no troll.

 

[Idazmi]

(...) It's literally how lightsabers are treates here. (...)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lightsaber <- The page on lightsabers does NOT list Durability Negation. Instead, the lightsaber's AP is scaled directly to the durability of what they can cut.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

What does Bibleman do in character? If he doesn't do anything significant, giving it to Sonic via BFRing with tornados.

 

[EnnardTrap1987]

What does Bibleman do in character? If he doesn't do anything significant, giving it to Sonic via BFRing with tornados.

He mostly begins with close range combat via his sword, while referencing scriptures to overwhelm and taunt Sonic.