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Sasuke vs. Kimimaro

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For the last point, we are talking about Kimimaro before he got sick.

Yes, Sasuke has precog but he's not invincible with it. He's faced enemies who fought with him equally despite having precog. And just because he can "see what Kimi will do" doesn't mean he'll necessarily be able to block/dodge it in time.

Kirin requires the weather to be in Sasuke's advantage.

Kimimaro's Tessenka no Mai is going to block a chidori. They are the same level, you know. And dodging is a thing. If Kimimaro was joking Gaara when on deathbed, if he's full-health it's not even a competition. Even with just his rib cage, Kimi has astounding defense since he can reinforce his bones to become extremely durable.

Sasuke was personally trained. What do you think Kimimaro was? And for a longer time, too. Kimi was also a warrior from a young age.
 
i know, but that kimi has even less experience

he was gonna use it whitout wheater against naruto , and he can MAKE the weather work for it. and we assume it takes place in a time of a day where hes a his strongest, i wouldent know if that works for the weather as well

but sasuke at this point is also above gaaras defense, and hes attack is made for piercing specificly

kimimaro, while trained, had been mostly self thaught by going out on missions with the sound four, or five at that point.
 
I agree Sasuke is above Gaara's defense, but so was Kimimaro even when on deathbed. So in full health, even more above.

Kimimaro was both self-taught and trained by Orochimaru, but his experience has been there ever since he was a kid. His clan was war-driven, and Kimi was the ace of the clan.

This is Sasuke's 4th key. Kirin isn't included.
 
and sasuke is also above the form where his attack was stronger

cuz the uchiha werent? kimimaru only ever got "trained when thrown in battle, and was caged up otherwise

he was about to use it, requested for it to be added
 
Sasuke is nowhere-near as experienced as Kimimaro. He never fought in wars, never had to live with his life on the line, never lived in constant menace of death. Kimimaro went through all that since a kid.

"and sasuke is also above the form where his attack was stronger"

What? I don't get your sentence.

Early-Shippuden Sasuke and deathbed Kimimaro are on the same level power-wise. Here, we are using full health-Kimimaro, which would make him stronger than Sasuke, to counterbalance Sasuke's versatility.
 
I mean, I don't think experience is particularly a factor here. Kid Sasuke - and other Part 1 characters - fought against and performed pretty well against characters that were already familiar with the harsh nature of the shinobi lifestyle, despite having limited or no experience against the variety of jutsu their opponents had e.g Haku, Gaara, the Sound Four. And Sasuke is a natural prodigy, so I'm pretty sure he can adapt with little issue. I don't see experience as a significant factor.

He could also fight against an experienced S-rank shinobi in the form of Deidara right after absorbing Orochimaru. There's no difference between the Sasuke used here and Hebi Sasuke, except power and such.

About AP, it's possible Sasuke has the strength advantage here, but I'm not sure. He low-key soloed Team 7 while being casual as ****, and without his cursed seal.
 
You're not wrong, but both early-Shippuden Sasuke and deathbed Kimimaro are 8-A. Since this is perfect health-Kimimaro, he'd be a bit stronger than early-Shuppuden Sasuke, no?
 
I never argued that the 8-A is small. I know it's big. All I'm saying is that healthy-Kimi > deathbed-Kimi. He would still be 8-A but stronger.
 
Yes, but the amount of advantage wouldent be that big, as naruto himself got a lot stronger, as did sakura, and sasuke bodied them
 
Yes, but deathbed-Kimi is already at Tier 8-A, just like early-shippuden-Sasuke, though. The exact position of the two when compared is unknown, same if we take healthy-Kimi, but he would be at a higher 8-A level than what we see in the series. How close or far is it to Sasuke's 8-A? Who knows, but since Gaara was already 8-A when he fought Kimi, and Kimi would have beaten him if not for his health, then he wouldn't have had trouble against Gaara if he was at full health. It thus makes me believe that full health-Kimi is at least as strong as early-shippuden-Sasuke.
 
dude, gaara was being beaten by naruto, and sasuke could also penatrate his defenses, became much stronger via cursed seal, then became stronger by shippuden. compare pre shippuden sasuke with post is quiet unreasonable.

not only that, but sasuke could still hes chakra and by extension clones
 
Naruto easily beat Gaara until he transform full Bijuu and we see how Sasuke faired against half-transformed Gaara. You can't compared them.

Shadow Clones distributed user's chakra among every clone evenly. Sasuke don't has enough chakra to spam Shadow Clones and it's not in his character.
 
Mindovin said:
Naruto easily beat Gaara until he transform full Bijuu and we see how Sasuke faired against half-transformed Gaara. You can't compared them.
Shadow Clones distributed user's chakra among every clone evenly. Sasuke don't has enough chakra to spam Shadow Clones and it's not in his character.
Click to expand...
yeah, who stomped a stronger version of naruto again?

yeah, i said that a dozin times
 
If you saying Sasuke stomped Naruto i'm asking you when that happen. If you saying their first encounter in part 2 when Naruto fight against Sasuke he is didn't fully recovered from using 4-tails transformation and only rested while looking Sai's picture book, after that he go after Orochimaru.
 
And tell me when i said they win against N? Read this or watch the episode to understand Naruto has not full power and never rested.

298-16
299-14
 
dude, he lolnoped everyone on the team, not rested or not, they werent dammaged to the point where they were not hurt tot he point where they werent capable of fighting.


hell, hes boss summon wasent even brought up yet
 
Yep, Naruto wasn't in prime condition. It doesn't matter if he was still capable of fighting. You just can't say that a fresh and optimal conditioned Naruto is = the Naruto that Sasuke blitzed.
 
i guess yamamoto was also on his death bed then, cuz he got lol noped as well.

and again, 7b boss summon really does give it away
 
Hmm, what are you saying? He would have put up a better performance if he wasn't suffering from the aftereffects of going four tails. Are you saying that a Kakashi who's still recovering from abusing his Mangekyō would be as impressive as a fresh Kakashi? Lol.

I'm not arguing against snake summons.
 
? Direct strength is not everything. We've pretty much seen this in the series. Fighting styles and other stuff matter. Naruto got the clone feints, can utilize the environment to his advantage, is smarter than Yamato in a fight, etc. There are things to his advantage that he can use, which Yamato wouldn't be able to.

Though it's the same for Yamato in a way.
 
yeah, but above it was argued that kimimaru is much stronger because his weakened version was above gaara, despite naruto being above gaara, yamato being above that versionof naruto, and sasuke being above yamato
 
It's derailed but my first reply's main point is you scaling Sasuke's power from part 2 Chunin Exams Gaara vs Naruto even that fight not go in a in normal ways like because that fight contain clone spam, summoning and one headbutt. Without obvious weakness 1-tail stomped Naruto and Gamabunta.

Other discussion is you are saying Sasuke stomped Naruto even that not even a fight and Naruto completly recovered from 4-tails ordeal.

Yamato neutralized from lightining because he is underestimated Sasuke and attacked him directly for protecting Sakura.
 
Dude! Sasuke Retrieval Arc-Gaara is stronger than Chuunin Exams-Gaara. It was clear to see when it happened and it literally says on his profile, 8-B vs 8-A. That's what I was referring to.

And all I said was healthy-Kimi is stronger than deathbed-Kimi. Is that so hard to understand? I said it multiple times already. I literally said we have no idea how healthy-Kimi and early-shippuden-Sasuke compare power-wise within the 8-A tier. Where did I say healthy-Kimi is expodentially stronger than Sasuke? All I said was that healthy-Kimi is stronger than his sick self.

The Gaara that Naruto beat and Sasuke penetrated the defenses of was his 8-B version, not his 8-A. Please read the profiles. And no shit post-timeskip-Sasuke is stronger than pre-timeskip, that's obvious. Post-timeskip-Sasuke is still within 8-A, the same tier Kimimaro was in when sick and where he joked Gaara's attacks. All I said was that Kimi wouldn't have had any trouble against 8-A Gaara if he was healthy. I KNOW post-timeskip-Sasuke is stronger than retrieval-arc-Gaara, I never argued that. But healthy-Kimi is a higher 8-A than sick-Kimi. How much higher? We don't know, as it was never shown. But is it really so crazy to imagine that Kimimaro would have likely wiped the floor with Gaara if he was in perfect condition?

All I ever argued was that at full potential, Kimi would likely be quite stronger than his sick self, but still within the 8-A tier.
 
How is it not obvious Kimi would be stronger if at full health? It's like comparing a 20-year-old and a 90-year-old. It's obvious who's healthier and stronger.

And what do you mean "sasuke is stronger then ANOTHER 8a"? Do you mean that Shippuden Start Sasuke is stronger than Cursed Seal Level 2 Sasuke? How do you even know that?
 
too bad that he was only healty when he was 12, and had less experience

he overwpovered and held down yamato
 
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