Sans VS Saitama.

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's one thing I'd like to argue actually. Karmic Retribution. Even if the monsters coutn as kills, the monsters are still more evil than a majority of the ones in Undertale. So if anything I feel like having Saitama act as a hero and kill those monsters should negate that. He never killed any humans after all

IIRC, KR doesn't care about "good" and "evil", as it judges based on EXP and LOVE, which are quite literally "Execution Points" and "Level of Violence". I'm pretty sure Saitama has those in spades, especially since the whole deal with Undertale was disproving Flowey's own "kill or be killed" mentality, which is one Saitama abides by almost all the time (Garou notwithstanding).

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Makes sense but I still find doubt on trying to kill something completely irredeemable. But it's not like it's going to change the outcome for Saitama's match anyway due to teleportation. If he only had speed it would be different but teleportation completely changes things and makes it safe for Sans.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Makes sense but I still find doubt on trying to kill something completely irredeemable.

I'm not saying it is, but I'm fairly sure KR runs on the logic of "the more pain inflicted, the more pain received" as opposed to "the more pain inflicted which wasn't for a relatively good reason, the more pain received".

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

But isn't it Karmic Retribution? The title itself should have a big meaning to the ability since they're not just simply named for the fun of it. At least that's what I'm assuming. Since hurting someone is bad but wouldn't Karma be more associated with whether one is doing good or evil? Of course Frisk has hurt others in self-defense before and one can argue that it was aimed to protect themselves, but then again they could've avoided that by not fighting. On the other hand Saitama saves numerous others (barring Beefcake incident) at the cost of killing. Sure it's one life, but in the process he saves many ranging from hundreds to thousands (even if no one else acknowledges him). That's a heroic thing to do isn't it?

Also just saw the Sans vs Frisk video above, just simply perfect

 

[Promestein]

As Asriel said, "Don't kill, and don't be killed."

The situation regarding killing someone is irrelevant to Karmic Retribution. It is impartial.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also just saw the Sans vs Frisk video above, just simply perfect

I think Prom just covered the first part of the comment.

And yes, yes it certainly is.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

As Asriel said, "Don't kill, and don't be killed."
The situation regarding killing someone is irrelevant to Karmic Retribution. It is impartial.

This fits with the fact that monsters, unlike humans, apparently need love and compassion to sustain their souls, otherwise they'll die.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

As Asriel said, "Don't kill, and don't be killed."
The situation regarding killing someone is irrelevant to Karmic Retribution. It is impartial.

@Prom seems one-dimensional too in a way. If anything the monsters in Undertale are more humane than the actual ones in OPM. Almost human in fact, while even if the OPM monsters are former humans, they really are just monstrosities with no clear diction or goal aside from hurting others. Well most of them at least.

@Azanthoth I don't think the monsters in OPM have those similar traits to be honest. As I said above they seemed to have such a huge difference compared to each other.

 

[Promestein]

The main point that Undertale drives home is that killing isn't right, regardless of the circumstances and regardless of the person. Asriel's statement, in context, is referring to people who won't extend the same courtesy to you - people who will kill and kill and kill. THESE are the people Asriel is talking about - the people who you shouldn't kill, but who you should avoid being killed by. Since KR is just an extension of Undertale's message, I think it's pretty clear that it doesn't care about why you kill, just that you killed.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Fair enough. If it's the world's laws then there's no argument with that

 

[Squid_peanut]

Fair enough. If it's the world's laws then there's no argument with that

it's definitly an marginally odd take on morality by our standards but interesting

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Well alright then, I think it's time for the topic to become on topic once more...

Or should we actually do the battle that everyone's been waiting for?

OPM mosquito vs Sans?

 

[Squid_peanut]

their basically the same

 

[Scrubjr]

What about Sans getting tired out? While Saitama never seams to run out of energy, Sans gets tired quickly, If sans and saitama were given the same amount of energy, it would be an easy win for Sans, but Saitama could just outlast him.

 

[Squid_peanut]

What about Sans getting tired out? While Saitama never seams to run out of energy, Sans gets tired quickly, If sans and saitama were given the same amount of energy, it would be an easy win for Sans, but Saitama could just outlast him.

but sans tears through saitama so fast endurance doesn't become a problem

 

[Promestein]

Saitama won't outlast him, though, since Sans has a massive speed advantage and will probably oneshot him.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I don't think he's going to run out of energy so easily fighting someone who, as of now, is much slower than he is.

 

[Scrubjr]

Sans doesn't have a speed advantage though, I'm pretty sure Saitama is faster, and Sans would NOT oneshot Saitama. Do you know how friggin dourable Saitama is?

 

[Squid_peanut]

Sans doesn't have a speed advantage though, I'm pretty sure Saitama is faster, and Sans would NOT oneshot Saitama. Do you know how friggin dourable Saitama is?

sans is at least relativistic, saitama is at least sub-relativistic, sans is faster

 

[Promestein]

Sans' attacks ignore durability. In addition, Saitama has not shown any speed anywhere near Sans, let alone faster.

 

[Scrubjr]

How's Sans' reaction time?

 

[Promestein]

You know you can look at his page, right?

His reactions are at least relativistic+.

 

[Scrubjr]

Reaction Time =/= Speed

 

[Promestein]

Reaction Time =/= Speed

This is his speed as well.

 

[Scrubjr]

Reaction time and speed are not the same thing, where on Sans' page does it say his reaction time.

 

[Promestein]

He is able to move at that speed, given that he is significantly faster than Chara / Frisk.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Sans can react at rel+ and move himself and others at instant speeds with teleportation. However, his reaction time obviously isn't instant. Just rel+.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Sans oneshots Saitama (ironically enough).

 

[Benpage11]

Definitely sans...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Sans defeats Saitama in one hit.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Can we add this in Sans' victory and Saitama's losses? Man Saitama has one hell of a losing streak lately =(

 

[CuriousWatcher]

Hype can really backfire.

 

[Squid_peanut]

Can we add this in Sans' victory and Saitama's losses? Man Saitama has one hell of a losing streak lately =(

it's because saitama's "power" comes from the fact that he doesn't fight anyone that strong, because of this he doesn't have any hax or abilities beyond his natural skills and thus is often at a disadvantage against most people in his tier since a lot of them do have hax

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

Hey, real quick, can someone link me a source for the assertion that KR isn't binary?

It did a consistent 1 damage per hit to Chara, who was, at that moment, the most sinful person in the universe. Obviously it couldn't do less damage per hit. How do we know that it would do more damage proportional to someone's kill count? (Would it deal more hits per second? Tick down faster?)

Also, are hitpoints considered a measure of durability? This is a question that would rarely be important even for game characters, but it seems strikingly relevant for Sans. His attacks ignore defense, but durability in the form of HP still matters.

I'm not saying all this to try and change the outcome of this battle, because Saitama still seems to be outclassed even if the answers to these questions are favorable to him, but they're points of confusion about KR that I've been wondering about with every Sans thread.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It did a consistent 1 damage per hit to Chara, who was, at that moment, the most sinful person in the universe. Obviously it couldn't do less damage per hit. How do we know that it would do more damage proportional to someone's kill count? (Would it deal more hits per second? Tick down faster?)

Also, are hitpoints considered a measure of durability? This is a question that would rarely be important even for game characters, but it seems strikingly relevant for Sans. His attacks ignore defense, but durability in the form of HP still matters.

I don't think it's likely KR does more damage in a single hit. Just that it does so at a much faster, higher rate. All we know is Sans waited for Chara to come to the very end of their journey before doing anything, and aside from being lazy, he probably had some pretty good reasons for that. I also don't know if we could consider Chara to be the absolute most sinful person in the world, at the time. Don't get me wrong, they likely were, but they did kill a little over a hundred individuals. It's not unheard of for a warlord or some type of tyrant to have a considerably higher number of bodies at their feet.

Hitpoints are more like...your overall health. Like, once something starts actually harming you, it determines just how much punishment you can actually take.

 

[Gdfsgdfg]

Sans "The Easiest Enemy" vs Saitama "The Strongest Hero" both are baldies and both make me chuckle a lot.

Man this is a tough one, I would say Sans has no chances without at least 6 or 7 human souls in his possesion then Saitama would have to use a fraction of his power for sure.


Pre-Training Saitama has no chances at all though he's probably weaker than Frisk in that state.

 

[WarriorWare]

...?

Sans at no point uses the human souls. That whooping he gives you in the genocide route? He needs no prep time whatsoever for that. He doesn't need the souls or anything.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

...?
Sans at no point uses the human souls. That whooping he gives you in the genocide route? He needs no prep time whatsoever for that. He doesn't need the souls or anything.

Not to mention using the 6 Human SOULs is equivalent to 2-A. With that much power, Sans can kill the whole OPM verse and bring it back just to kill again an infinite number of times just like Omega Flowey did to Frisk.

 

[The_Invincible_Iron_Man]

What is this spite...

 

[WarriorWare]

...?
Sans at no point uses the human souls. That whooping he gives you in the genocide route? He needs no prep time whatsoever for that. He doesn't need the souls or anything.

Not to mention using the 6 Human SOULs is equivalent to 2-A. With that much power, Sans can kill the whole OPM verse and bring it back just to kill again an infinite number of times just like Omega Flowey did to Frisk.

Why even bring it up?

@Iron Man: It's kind of understandable. Saitama wank is annoying, so let's have him against someone that WAN PAAANCH logic doesn't guarantee a victory for.