Sans vs. Goku (Remastered)

[The_Wright_Way]

Redoing because Sans KR no longer requires a kill count to be effective. Also I'm less biased towards sans now so I'll be more impartial here than I was in the original. That being said if your argument is bogus I'll let you know.

Speed Equalized.

Dragon Ball Super Goku but he starts in base.


vs

 

[Monikaforever]

goku since he is pure of heart

 

[Huesito88]

Sans attacks aren't based on how evil you are. The op literally states this

 

[Dragomer]

Goku speed blitz , as an SSJBX20 , his speed is at least 8000 time superior to his base and that's assuming that his SSJB is has the same multiplier as SSJ3

also Goku has a better range and he can change the direction of his ki blast easily , meaning he can easily beat Sans danmaku wise (without forgetting the kikoha spamming martial art he learned from that magical girl in the TOP) (even if spamming huge quantity of kikoha and ki blast is more Vegeta's speciality)

Goku is also a master martial artist so he can easily outdo Sans in term of dodging and pretty much insta win if he get into close combat (cutting out any un-necessary motion is very important in term of dodging and attacking) (no , it doesn't goes against the 'speed equalised' , since they are still both moving at the same speed , Goku just move less , both his limbs and his muscle)

also attacking Goku's soul is useless since it's a component of his ki , it's not different from attacking Goku himself

 

[Dragomer]

Speed is equalized

Goku starts in base so his base form's speed is equal to Sans's , yes but his SSJ form still multiply all his stats , or his Kaioken at least still do that (since otherwise it make the Kaioken useless , thus taking away one of his ability , wich is not specified by the OP)

if the OP really mean his speed stay equal no matter what , he should add it clearly because it's easy to get misstaken like i potentialy did

 

[Huesito88]

Speed equalization nullifies any speed boosting from a transformation

 

[Dragomer]

Speed equalized nullifies any speed boosting from a Transformation

sorry but i just searched and nothing in the wiki say that , so i'm not really sure if it's how it's supposed to work since i'v saw multiple thread where normal speed boosting technique still counted

maybe i'v missed it

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Huesito is correct, speed equalized nullifies speed amping techniques and transformations

 

[Dragomer]

Huesito is correct, speed equalized nullifies speed amping techniques and transformations

shouldn't there be a page to explain that then ? so nobody get confused ?

 

[Huesito88]

There should really be one. I remember a long time ago I thought speed equalization didn't equalize the attacks speed of items characters carried.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Either Sans destroys his soul or Goku turns him into dust with a ki blast, I think whoever hits first wins.

 

[Dragomer]

Either Sans destroys his soul or Goku turns him into dust with a ki blast, I think whoever hits first wins.

how Sans would do that ? Karmic retribution work as a soul poison on his profile now (i disagree with Karmic retribution in general but since it's on his profile , it doesn't matter for this debate) so even if we go with 'Goku doesn't have defense for his soul' it wouldn't one shot him

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Soul poison kills really quickly.

 

[Dragomer]

Soul poison kills really quickly.

that's not really quickly , the guy litteraly took everything Sans could throw in a turn and still took time to die (so even the heaviest dose of 'poisoning' wouldn't kill someone instantly) , so not a one shot and he would have had the time to attack if he hadn't taken the gaster blaster to the face , also notice how the poisoning left him with 1 HP ? it can't kill and unlike chara , Goku can take everything Sans can throw , so that 1 HP won't be going down (and once again , it's if we ignore that attacking Goku's soul is no different from attacking him directly and is therefor above what Sans can do)

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

And unlike Frisk and Chara, Goku has no resistance to soul damage, also, Sans attacks with Danmaku, which means he releases a great amount of soul destroying projectiles at once, and he negates durability, which means Goku can't "take everything Sans can throw", he would be dead in seconds. However, Goku could also one-shot Sans with basically any of his attacks, so I'm not sure how this would turn out.

 

[Dragomer]

And unlike Frisk and Chara, Goku has no resistance to soul damage, also, Sans attacks with Danmaku, which means he releases a great amount of soul destroying projectiles at once, and he negates durability, which means Goku can't "take everything Sans can throw", he would be dead in seconds. However, Goku could also one-shot Sans with basically any of his attacks, so I'm not sure how this would turn out.

Frisk and Chara have no resistance either , their HP is how hard destroying their souls is for their opponents , it's not resistance

read my earlier post , Ki blast spam is nothing new in DB and Goku can control his blast even after firing them , like if Sans could move the blast from his gaster blaster at will , without forgetting that as a martial artist , his dodge won't have un-neccessary motion , giving him the advantage over Sans and he has far greater range

only his Karmic retribution ignore durability and it always leave 1 HP , so it can't kill

Goku's ki is both spiritual and physical , attacking his souls is no different from attacking his body (to the point he can resist having both his body and soul erased) and his body is too much for Sans , so it's logical it would be the same for his soul , also for Undertale monster , the more someone is detached from his opponent and willing to hurt or kill , the harder it is to hurt them

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Both Frisk and Chara have resistance to Soul Manipulation, it's on their profiles.

And, yeah, Goku could dodge it, in the same way Sans could dodge Goku's blasts, but in the moment Sans hits him, it will be several hits at once, which will end up destroying his soul.

KR is the purple poison effect, not the thing that negates durability, if only KR negated durability, Sans would not be able to kill Chara either, since Chara is way above Sans' stats, the dude is Wall Level, at that point, Chara was way above that.

And, again, Goku has no resistance to Soul Manipulation, there's no reason to assume Sans wouldn't be able to damage his soul, specially with Durability Negation and Soul Poison added in. Also, the only reason Goku is willing to kill in this fight is due to SBA, but he is still in character.

 

[Dragomer]

Both Frisk and Chara have resistance to Soul Manipulation, it's on their profiles.
And, yeah, Goku could dodge it, in the same way Sans could dodge Goku's blasts, but in the moment Sans hits him, it will be several hits at once, which will end up destroying his soul.

KR is the purple poison effect, not the thing that negates durability, if only KR negated durability, Sans would not be able to kill Chara either, since Chara is way above Sans' stats, the dude is Wall Level.

And, again, Goku has no resistance to Soul Manipulation, there's no reason to assume Sans wouldn't be able to damage his soul, specially with Durability Negation and Soul Poison added in. Also, Goku is willing to kill in this fight, this is SBA.

yeah , okay , i kinda forgot that it was on their profile but since i disagree with it to begin with i'm not surprised , how well , rules are rules

i don't see how it will be several hit at once , as his hit don't stop you from moving out of the way , someone on Goku's level of skill would easily stop being hit after the first damage

Sans could dodge but it will be harder for him since Goku can just make his ki blast come back rather than have to fire new ones and can do both at the same time , while Goku doesn't have to care about Sans's attack once he dodged , and Sans has never proven to be able to dodge someone skilled as Goku (Chara was pure brute strenght and blood lust) or to be able to dodge a Danmaku like attack (i mean , he tire pretty quickly from dodging a few hit , i don't see how he would dodge hundreds of ki blast , especialy when Goku can just cover the whole continent in ki blast) , also Goku has télékinésis , so he doesn't even need to touch Sans , he can just crush him or at least stop him from moving

nope , i don't see 'ignore durability' on his profile outside of his KR

Chara has no durability feat and it's because Sans abuse game mecanique , since the lowest damage you can inflict in undertale is 1 , Goku is not subjected to the game mechanics of undertail

also nothing stop Goku from just doing that : https://giphy.com/gifs/goku-mc-hammer-time-HwST4XE9Rocg0 , wich would disperse all of Sans' attack and kill Sans at the same time

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Dude, you're saying Chara, the same character who defeated a Undyne the Undying, has Wall Level Durability? Wat?

But yeah, you're right, Goku could do that, I'm not sure if it is in character, and Sans could teleport away to dodge it, but he could, in the same way Sans could send dozens of soul attacks at the same time, which would destroy Goku's soul since he has no defence to it.

And saying that Goku would be able to dodge it all because he has skill could make some sense, but Goku is not untouchble, he does take hits sooner or later in most fights he is in, and putting together Danmaku and Durability Negation, Sans should be able to finish Goku off pretty quickly, not to mention that Sans is stated to be a "genius, both in a tactical and scientific sense", so, yeah, he is also pretty skilled.

So, yeah, Sans should be able to destroy Goku's soul, so it depends of who hits first.

 

[Schnee_One]

Huesito is correct, speed equalized nullifies speed amping techniques and transformations

Except Time Manipulation.

Changes nothing, just pointing out

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Can't Goku just flex?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I'm still not sure who would win this, they both have pretty simple ways to kill each other. Basically anything Goku does would kill Sans, and Sans could destroy Goku's soul, which Goku has no defence against.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Dodging? Teleportation? Killing sans before that happens?

Goku litteraly just needs to AOE, shoot at the ground, power up, anything is enough.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, but Sans could dodge or teleport too, that's why I'm not sure.

 

[Dragomer]

Dude, you're saying Chara, the same character who defeated a Undyne the Undying, has Wall Level Durability? Wat?
But yeah, you're right, Goku could do that, I'm not sure if it is in character, and Sans could teleport away to dodge it, but he could, in the same way Sans could send dozens of soul attacks at the same time, which would destroy Goku's soul since he has no defence to it.

And saying that Goku would be able to dodge it all because he has skill could make some sense, but Goku is not untouchble, he does take hits sooner or later in most fights he is in, and putting together Danmaku and Durability Negation, Sans should be able to finish Goku off pretty quickly, not to mention that Sans is stated to be a "genius, both in a tactical and scientific sense", so, yeah, he is also pretty skilled.

So, yeah, Sans should be able to destroy Goku's soul, so it depends of who hits first.

not a durability feat , Undyne didn't try to crush his skull , she was trying to crush his soul , he has 0 durability feat

Sans can't teleport during a fight , as shown in the fight with Chara , he can just dodge normaly , his teleportation is limlited to 'taking shortcut' to go from one area to another , he can't use it to dodge and even if he could , his teleportation doesn't have continental range , he would still get vaporised

once again , Goku can just blast them away and can throw more attack than Sans , without forgetting that Sans get tired after dodging like 10 stabs from an un-trained child

Goku has never taken a hit against a less skilled opponent

once again , no durability negation for Sans outside of KR , wich can't kill (always leave 1HP) , read his profile and even if it could kill , Goku can kill Sans faster than the poison can kill him

Goku can resist having his soul erased and can fight against souls and intangible thing using ki , there is no reason for Sans' soul attack to work on him

being a tactical genius doesn't mean you can dodge effectively , i'm sure that if Napoleon had to dodge a punch , he would be less effective at it than Bruce Lee , by several magnitude , especialy since in that scenario , Napoleon would have to dodge hundreds of homing cannonball

even if we say that Sans can do that , it would take time , since the poisons take time to act , Goku can just blast the attack away and Sans with it and while Sans can't fully cover a hall in attacks , Goku can just cover the whole continent in attack , from the atmosphere

also he can go SSJG and regen the damage done by the KR / cancel them , KR doesn't stop you from healing or regenerating

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Dyde, Sans ain't dodging a few thousand km AOE blast.

 

[Huesito88]

Goku can nuke the area

 

[Huesito88]

Goku can't regen from his soul being destroyed or part of it

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Actually sans has used teleportation in theur fight, it's just not that big in range.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Ok, I guess Goku can do that, but I still don't get why that guy is saying that Chara has Wall level durability and that KR is the only attack that negates durability.

 

[Huesito88]

/\ (He said chara has no durability feats)

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

And he also said that Goku can resist soul damage, which he can't. But, anyway, nuking the arena could work, would Goku do it in character?

 

[Dragomer]

Ok, I guess Goku can do that, but I still don't get why that guy is saying that Chara has Wall level durability and that KR is the only attack that negates durability.

because durability negation isn't on his profile

i said Chara has no durability feat , so i wouldn't even say he is wall level , i would say we simply don't know

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Goku technically can.

He resists an existence erasure, one that also destroys the soul..

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Goku technically can.
He resists an existence erasure, one that also destroys the soul..

So, Goku has Resistance to Soul Manipulation? Interesting, I wonder why it isn't on his profile.

 

[Huesito88]

Chara tanked his destroying the game attack (muliversal attack)

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

because durability negation isn't on his profile

i said Chara has no durability feat , so i wouldn't even say he is wall level , i would say we simply don't know

Yes, it is:"Can ignore Durability to an extent via SOUL Magic", "Repeatedly defeated a multiversal enemy while they were in physical form due to mostly ignoring durability on both a conventional level and the entire mechanic of post-hit invulnerability."

And even if Chara has no feats (which they have, since they took hits from Undyne), we know they're superior to most monsters in the game due to their stats, which should put them way above Wall Level, and even that's before becoming absolute.

 

[Dragomer]

Chara tanked his destroying the game attack (muliversal attack)

he didn't attack himself , attacks in undertail clearly have no 'knockback' , also he doesn't hate himself so he wouldn't be affected by his attack , it's everything else he hate

 

[Huesito88]

Well he will when he resists hakai (even though sans can effect people who have soul resistance ovo). In a serious note everyone in undertale can attack the soul (which is durability negation) even the froggit. Sans kr is a added effect on to his his attacks

 

[Monikaforever]

Goku for reasons above