Sans vs Accelerator

[Aurasuke]

That's assuming he can manipulate a vector well beyond the speed of Frisk's attacks,

33,860 trillion calculations per second for Today's supercomputer, Academy City is 20-30 years ahead of our technology. They would probably have computers that can calculate 10^100 calculations per second or a 1 with 100 zeros or a google. That's only in base form. Even if he coul donly move something 1 meter for every calculation that's still a lot more than Sans's reaction speed, it would be like 10^100m/s calculation speed.

Now accelerator doesn't just move ordinary objects 1m granted, he probably uses them more of manipulating complicated calculatiions than simple ones such as wind, electricity etc, but either way it doesn't change the fact he has significantly higher calc speed than san's reaction speed.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

he has significantly higher calc speed than san's reaction speed.

His calc speed doesn't matter if he can't react fast enough to put it into effectual action from when they hit GO.

 

[Aurasuke]

When you do a calcultion, do you just do it instantly? Think for a second before making such comments. I think you have to react to the problem given first.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

When you do a calcultion, do you just do it instantly? Think for a second before making such comments. I think you have to react to the problem given first.

Exactly. Sans outreacts him, therefore his calc speed is irrelevant.

 

[Aurasuke]

No, i mean think about this

1+1=?

5*7sinx=

integral( e^x)=

he has to react to the equations first before he can do a calculation. You don't just do a calculation without even knowing what that calculation is (notice how the math just gets harder, though the last one is probably the easiest)

basically he can't do 10^100 calculations without reacting to them first, without even knowing the question

 

[Northern_Wind00]

he has to react to the equations first before he can do a calculation.

Isn't that exactly what I just said? Or are you arguing that his reaction speed should be raised as the result of his calc speed? Or... what?

 

[Aurasuke]

no, what I'm saying is that for him to do a calculation at such a speed, he has to be able to read the equation first.

1+1=?

5*7sinx=

integral( e^x)=

derivative of (t/sint*cost)=

try doing these calculations, probably takes me like 3 seconds but for you maybe 1 minute of searching up the internet or 3 seconds if you are good at math. But either way we need to Percieve the calcuations in order to do get an answer. How many equations do you think Accelerator percieves every second? His calculation speed is beyond 100 supercomputers in index,

he would have to perceive somewhere in the magnitude of 10^100^100 or so calculations every second. Try filling this entire page with that many calculations, it'd take you forever to read them, but he can do all of that in a second. He can percieve them that quickly.

Now think for a second, using Sans realitivistic + reaction speed how many equations could he read (not even calculate) in that time frame? Normal humans with human speed can read maybe like 3 per second. let's say that sans can read at the speed of light with the multiplier of a normal human reader per second.

that's 3*3*10^8 equations or 9*10^8 equations.

In the time it takes sans to read 900 million equations accelerator can do 10^100^100 or in other words 1 with a hundred zeros, to the power of a hundred zeros.

 

[Aurasuke]

so yeah as things stand that's my opinion

 

[Northern_Wind00]

he would have to perceive somewhere in the magnitude of 10^100^100 or so calculations every second. Try filling this entire page with that many calculations, it'd take you forever to read them, but he can do all of that in a second. He can percieve them that quickly.

Actually no, that's a false equivelancy. It's stated that's how fast he can calculate by word of god, but nowhere is it stated that that's how fast he can percieve.

 

[Aurasuke]

^what are you even talking about? Who is god? did you even read what I wrote?

 

[Northern_Wind00]

^what are you even talking about? Who is god? did you even read what I wrote?

Word of God is a colloquial term for when a series creator states that something is fact, even though it's not shown through the character's actions directly or would not be measurable under normal circumstances. The fact of the matter is, they stated that that's how fast he can calculate, but they never stated he's able to percieve enough equations in that short a timeframe to fill up to his calculatory limit. That's just a fact.

 

[Aurasuke]

there is no proof that accelerator's power is limited by his calculation speed, that's an assumption made in this wiki but not even others based on the fact that he casually reflects light. Since it's casually he doesn't even have to think. For all we know when he's not so casual it could be MFTL+. We simply used that as a feat in order to make sure he doesn't just solo goku with no BFR.

There's no proof accelerator's reaction speeds are massive hypersonic either. The author is never explicitly states anything like it.

By your logic Azathoth isn't tier 0 because his only feat is an author's mention about how the universe has infinite dimensions. Guess that's just a word of god feat too.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

there is no proof that accelerator's power is limited by his calculation speed, that's an assumption made in this wiki but not even others based on the fact that he casually reflects light. Since it's casually he doesn't even have to think. For all we know when he's not so casual it could be MFTL+. We simply used that as a feat in order to make sure he doesn't just solo goku with no BFR.
There's no proof accelerator's reaction speeds are massive hypersonic either. The author is never explicitly states anything like it.

By your logic Azathoth isn't tier 0 because his only feat is an author's mention about how the universe has infinite dimensions. Guess that's just a word of god feat too.

Massive NLF. By this logic Saitama is High 3-A because he's supposedly limitless and he's just been casual.

Actually there's a ton of other stuff that makes Azathoth tier 0 but that has nothing to do with the point.

 

[Aurasuke]

The fact of the matter is, they stated that that's how fast he can calculate, but they never stated he's able to percieve enough equations in that short a timeframe to fill up to his calculatory limit. That's just a fact.

^baseless assumption that makese no sense whatsoever. You're saying he can do calculations without even knowing what they are. I know that you like Undertale, but making arguments like this that don't even make sense is like saying I know what's behind a rock, without even looking, when I actually don't know because I never looked, and I'm not omniscient.

 

[Aurasuke]

Actually there's a ton of other stuff that makes Azathoth tier 0 but that has nothing to do with the point.

Either way, there's no reason to deny the word of the author, and saying that he can't percieve the equations and calculate them doesn't make any sense.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Either way, there's no reason to deny the word of the author, and saying that he can't percieve the equations and calculate them doesn't make any sense.

I didn't deny the word of the author?

 

[Aurasuke]

Northern Wind00Does not believe the word of the author lol

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Northern Wind00Does not believe the word of the author lol

On the contrary, I do believe the word of the author that he can calc that fast. I just don't see it in his reactions, meaning his reaction speed IS only MHS.

Just because he CAN calc that much that fast doesn't mean he's capable of percieving enough to get to that point instantly.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ I've already explained this above, see above. anyway, if you aren't convinced because you simply like Undertale better that's fine. I don't really want to explain things to someone with such a strong bias, they don't usually percieve things in an objective manner.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

^ I've already explained this above, see above. anyway, if you aren't convinced because you simply like Undertale better that's fine. I don't really want to explain things to someone with such a strong bias, they don't usually percieve things in an objective manner.

You seriously don't get the simple point that Calc Speed does not have any bearing on reaction speed? Really? And you're calling ME biased after attempting several NLFs in your favor? I'm sorry, but there's something wrong with that.

I'm not convinced because the reaction feats of his don't show him as faster than MHS, which is slower reactionarily than Sans. Just because he can calculate faster than Sans can ostensibly percieve doesn't mean that he can percieve faster than sans can ostensibly percieve and it shows in the reactions of the two. It still doesn't account for him being able to react fast enough to percieve the problem in question before the beam fires. There's a MASSIVE, gaping inequity in what you're saying and how you're reacting and what I'm pointing to and how civil I am being. I'm simply pointing out that his passive and active feats and passive resistances don't calc up to the speeds in question and that there's a reason his reactions are rated like they are, while you are trying to call me biased for refusing to accept tainted arguments and NLF.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Try reading index first before saying his reaction feats. You don't even know Accelerator yet you make baseless assumptions.

Either way you still haven't disproven my argument about being able to percieve the equation. What you're basically saying is that humans don't need to know about the equation in order to solve it.


no, what I'm saying is that for him to do a calculation at such a speed, he has to be able to read the equation first.

1+1=?

5*7sinx=

integral( e^x)=

derivative of (t/sint*cost)=

try doing these calculations, probably takes me like 3 seconds but for you maybe 1 minute of searching up the internet or 3 seconds if you are good at math. But either way we need to Percieve the calcuations in order to do get an answer. How many equations do you think Accelerator percieves every second? His calculation speed is beyond 100 supercomputers in index,

he would have to perceive somewhere in the magnitude of 10^100^100 or so calculations every second. Try filling this entire page with that many calculations, it'd take you forever to read them, but he can do all of that in a second. He can percieve them that quickly.

Now think for a second, using Sans realitivistic + reaction speed how many equations could he read (not even calculate) in that time frame? Normal humans with human speed can read maybe like 3 per second. let's say that sans can read at the speed of light with the multiplier of a normal human reader per second.

that's 3*3*10^8 equations or 9*10^8 equations.

In the time it takes sans to read 900 million equations accelerator can do 10^100^100 or in other words 1 with a hundred zeros, to the power of a hundred zeros.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

What you're basically saying is that humans don't need to know about the equation in order to solve it.

No, what I'm saying is, sure, if accelerator HAD that many equations already in his head, he could solve them, but there's no reason to assume he can process that many equations INTO his head from sensory input that fast.

"he would have to perceive somewhere in the magnitude of 10^100^100 or so calculations every second. Try filling this entire page with that many calculations, it'd take you forever to read them, but he can do all of that in a second. He can percieve them that quickly. "

This would only be a "have" to percieve if at any point he had actually done that much simultaneously instantly from sense cues around him, which he clearly has not from his feats. What you are saying is that because he ca solve that many equations he is ALWAYS solving that many equations simultaneously, and thus he percieves that quickly. That is, as I've stated, a false equivelancy, because his ability to percieve and his ability to calculate are two different things. If he were to save up a backlog of 1^100^!00 calculations, he could solve them in a second. There's absolutely no reason to assume he gleans that many problems per second from his senses nor is there any feat showing that he was anything beyond Massively Hypersonic in reaction speed. Furthermore, the calc-speed in question is rated off computational calc-speed, and therefore ALL of those equations would be 1+1, given that's the standard measure of how fast computational calc-speed is. The more complicated the equations, the less it can perform per second. Further-Furthermore, you are arguing in bad-faith, assuming characteristics about me that I have not stated.

 

[Aurasuke]

This is why I say you don't know accelerator. The first time he controls wind, do you think he needed a back log? He doesn't need something like that, he didn't have a record of it then. It was using new equations he made that he was able to control wind for the first time.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

This is why I say you don't know accelerator. The first time he controls wind, do you think he needed a back log? He doesn't need something like that, he didn't have a record of it then. It was using new equations he made that he was able to control wind for the first time.

Yes, but he didn't GAIN those equations at faster than hypersonic speed. THAT is the point.

 

[BladeMancer]

Reasons why Accel can beat Sans

First: Accelerator's reflection is passive, meaning it is active at all times.This means even an instant attack from a Gaster Blaster would not work on him unless he allowed it or it was something he did not understand. Even if he did have to calculate to reflect that is offset with awakened Accel, whose wings allow him to calculate instantly. Also with Accel's supersonic reaction speed aimdodging a Gaster Blaster would be no biggie too (Gaster Blaster's appear at a speed reactible by a normal human, Accel's reaction speed is inhuman).

Second: San's only threatning attack is the Gaster Blaster (it has a nature Accel wouldn't understand at first hand) when it's fired, the rest are easily counterable. Accel could just walk through the bones, the wall bash wouldn't affect him and while his special attack would be threatning, it is ultimately San's signature character trait, laziness, which becomes it's greatest weakness

Third: San's can dodge base Accel, whom needs to touch something to redirect it. Awakened Accel can manipulate imaginary vectors (ones that don't exist), and manipulate vectors without touching the object thus crushing him

Accel takes this, and I am a fan of both UnderTale and To aru

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also with Accel's supersonic reaction speed aimdodging a Gaster Blaster would be no biggie too (Gaster Blaster's appear at a speed reactible by a normal human, Accel's reaction speed is inhuman).

Something I'd like to clear up. Frisk is far, far from a normal human. Most Undertale humans are, actually. Frisk's reaction speed should be significantly beyond Accel's, and even they had trouble aimdodging.

 

[BladeMancer]

Also with Accel's supersonic reaction speed aimdodging a Gaster Blaster would be no biggie too (Gaster Blaster's appear at a speed reactible by a normal human, Accel's reaction speed is inhuman).

Something I'd like to clear up. Frisk is far, far from a normal human. Most Undertale humans are, actually. Frisk's reaction speed should be significantly beyond Accel's, and even they had trouble aimdodging.

Not Frisk, Chara. What did Chara rely on? My, your, OUR Determination. He was under our control, just a normal human. The correct term wouldn't be Frisk dodging it with his reflexes, it would be we dodging it with our reflexes. Sans was fighting us, to stop us from destroying their world because we wanted to.

Accelerator is also "not human". Kakine Teitoku, the 2nd strongest Esper managed to react to supersonic attacks. Personal reality; the basis of their power, is reliant on brain power. Accelerator fought against that guy; with less then half of his original power and managed to prevent harm to those involved in the crossfire. His reaction speed is beyond sound by this reasoning, also if you want to give me shit about how Kamijou Touma, a normal guy with an esper/magic negator right hand beat him, it was because Accelerator was surprised that he was able to hit him in the first place and that Touma's punches (imagine getting hurt for the first time in a few decades) were able to slow him down a bit.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

His reaction speed is beyond sound by this reasoning, also if you want to give me shit about how Kamijou Touma, a normal guy with an esper/magic negator right hand beat him, it was because Accelerator was surprised that he was able to hit him in the first place and that Touma's punches (imagine getting hurt for the first time in a few decades) were able to slow him down a bit.

Beyond sound is still not Rel+

 

[BladeMancer]

His reaction speed is beyond sound by this reasoning, also if you want to give me shit about how Kamijou Touma, a normal guy with an esper/magic negator right hand beat him, it was because Accelerator was surprised that he was able to hit him in the first place and that Touma's punches (imagine getting hurt for the first time in a few decades) were able to slow him down a bit.

Beyond sound is still not Rel+
I don't recall Chara dodging rays of Sunlight. If he did it was probably slowed down for effect, thus shouldn't be considered an actual feat and added to Sans repitoire. I can liken it to Goku's durability; whom got hurt by a rock but is slightly phased by punches that could break mountains

Anyways if normal Accel doesn't work then we should use Awakened Accel to put up a greater fight. I believe he can perform calculations instantaneously, manipulate vectors that exist/don't exist without contact, move faster then Hypersonic with just his wings (not his full potential, his power could enhance himself to speeds massively faster), and displays immense durability to survive being cut into multiple pieces (used his power to hold himself together) and ignore physical + cognitive disabilities.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@BladeMancer Chara in Frisk's body is physically just a stronger Frisk, as Chara themself is an Abstract noncorporeal being. They basically perform the same feats up until the end of the game. As for it not counting because we, the player helped them dodge, that's ridiculous. It's the same as discounting all video game feats because the character had our input.

 

[AquaWaifu]

His reaction speed is beyond sound by this reasoning, also if you want to give me shit about how Kamijou Touma, a normal guy with an esper/magic negator right hand beat him, it was because Accelerator was surprised that he was able to hit him in the first place and that Touma's punches (imagine getting hurt for the first time in a few decades) were able to slow him down a bit.

Beyond sound is still not Rel+

I don't recall Chara dodging rays of Sunlight. If he did it was probably slowed down for effect, thus shouldn't be considered an actual feat and added to Sans repitoire. I can liken it to Goku's durability; whom got hurt by a rock but is slightly phased by punches that could break mountains
Anyways if normal Accel doesn't work then we should use Awakened Accel to put up a greater fight. I believe he can perform calculations instantaneously, manipulate vectors that exist/don't exist without contact, move faster then Hypersonic with just his wings (not his full potential, his power could enhance himself to speeds massively faster), and displays immense durability to survive being cut into multiple pieces (used his power to hold himself together) and ignore physical + cognitive disabilities.


Actually Goku's durability can be placed upon that his use of ki.

Simply put if he's not focused, his actual physical body is just as vulnerable to attacks like any human. Its why Krillin hurt him with a rock SS state while he was sleeping, if he's aware and focused he can shrug off attacks because of his ki.