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Saint Seiya speed issues
- Thread starter Alonik
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- pegasus seiya saint seiya
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- #42
All right @Ant.
But that's not a question of handbook or Marvel inconsistency, it's how the story develops the "quotes", i put are statements from the Saints to seeing the performance of other saints. Therefore putting a calculation above the real average of their reality, is very inconsistent, and is going over what the author alway reinforcing within the work.
If it were a single statement, the calculation could be placed without any problem, but the development of the characters are surrounded by this nature and truth of the hierarchy and speed of the saints.
But that's not a question of handbook or Marvel inconsistency, it's how the story develops the "quotes", i put are statements from the Saints to seeing the performance of other saints. Therefore putting a calculation above the real average of their reality, is very inconsistent, and is going over what the author alway reinforcing within the work.
If it were a single statement, the calculation could be placed without any problem, but the development of the characters are surrounded by this nature and truth of the hierarchy and speed of the saints.
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A million "light speed punches" [1] Ailioa already used his lightening plasma in this scene, its already been deployed. Seiya uses his 7th sense and he "Sees" them (Reaction feat) and he dodges them to punch Aiolia (A speed feat, right?) Wouldn't this be FTL? [2]Sera EX said:
There's a feat similar to this in Seiya Vs Aldebarran as well.
I also want to point out that Episode G Assassins has "Gold Saints are Only Light Speed Statements" as well. [3] [4][5] Episode G Assassins they have some sort of mechanic they need to "Toggle" on to go FTL. Which can only be the 7th sense[6]Sera EX said:
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The Taisen is a databook, and secondary canon.Alonik said:
i'll be responding slowly over time. until i get my irl house chores done.
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@Upgrademan
Yeah, G and Assassin support FTL Speeds. In Episode G, the fastest speed than light is called divine speed, and only with miracles can the golden saints react to it, and in the assassin, shura had to break the principle of light and go faster than light, however, also by miracles, they are under normal conditions only light speed.
However in classic manga and next dimension, this is not a constant.
Yeah, G and Assassin support FTL Speeds. In Episode G, the fastest speed than light is called divine speed, and only with miracles can the golden saints react to it, and in the assassin, shura had to break the principle of light and go faster than light, however, also by miracles, they are under normal conditions only light speed.
However in classic manga and next dimension, this is not a constant.
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You guys are wrong, normal Saints have been stated to move faster than light several times in Episode G.
Additionaly, Seiya being only Mach 1 because of statements is ridiculous when he already breaks the sound barrier and produces Sonic Booms in Chapter 2 , limiting him to only Mach 1 is downplay and that's ignoring other very good feats. Such as his fight against Geki where he kicks him thousands of times so fast that to the audience watching the fight could only see one kick. And also Hyoga traveling from Siberia to Tokyo in a very short amount of time.
Or hell, the Saints swimming from Japan all the way to the Mediterranean Sea in the Poseidon Arc, which was done without the 7th Sense.
Additionaly, Seiya being only Mach 1 because of statements is ridiculous when he already breaks the sound barrier and produces Sonic Booms in Chapter 2 , limiting him to only Mach 1 is downplay and that's ignoring other very good feats. Such as his fight against Geki where he kicks him thousands of times so fast that to the audience watching the fight could only see one kick. And also Hyoga traveling from Siberia to Tokyo in a very short amount of time.
Or hell, the Saints swimming from Japan all the way to the Mediterranean Sea in the Poseidon Arc, which was done without the 7th Sense.
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Also Sera is wrong about Aiolia's feat. He fires anything from 100,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 attacks depending on the statement, which are both FTL feats.
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I will contineue to debate this. I firmly believe that the Classic series, G, and Assassins are cross scalable.Archaron said:
Did you just leave out all context of Roland Vs Shura? For the audience read chapter 6 of Episode G Assassins and continue until the end of the fight [1]
Shura didn't need to use miracles to go FTL [2] he only needed a Miracle to attack faster than Rolands precog can help him react.
Another example of an FTL feat (But in the form of a scalable reaction feat)
First, Aldy says "Your punches only reach mach 1, and gold saints are light speed" [3]
Secondly, Seiya awakened his 7th sense [4]
Seiya was able to react, and block to a supposed "Light Speed Attack" [5]
Aldy uses his great horn right away [6]
Seiya sees his hands [7]
and seiya pushes the attack back at Aldy [8]
This is becoming - Feats/Calcs Vs Statements
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You will note that people are very eager to use statements to downplay Saint Seiya and bring up canon debates when it makes the series weaker, but never the opposite.
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Also the Mach 18 scene is a giant outlier since by that point Seiya had used the 7th Sense several times already and had fought many Gold Saint level dudes. Can't believe it's seriously brought up here.
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@Matthew
But then we have a question, that was a sudden cosmo explosion, Seiya was mastering that speed only after chapter 1.
Hyoga traveling through Siberia to Tokyo does not say much he did it running, he can just take a flight ou a ship, each battle had interval of more than a day in galaxian wars.
They traveling across the Mediterranean Sea in Poseidon Arc without 7th sense i calc and is at least Mach 433, but even Kraken Isaak when he was young was taken to the temple of poseidon by the currents.
But then we have a question, that was a sudden cosmo explosion, Seiya was mastering that speed only after chapter 1.
Hyoga traveling through Siberia to Tokyo does not say much he did it running, he can just take a flight ou a ship, each battle had interval of more than a day in galaxian wars.
They traveling across the Mediterranean Sea in Poseidon Arc without 7th sense i calc and is at least Mach 433, but even Kraken Isaak when he was young was taken to the temple of poseidon by the currents.
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@Alonik
If you read the manga, you will see that Hyoga actually traveled to Japan while the tournament was already happening. In fact the reason he wasn't showing up for the tournament at first was because he was in Siberia.
If you read the manga, you will see that Hyoga actually traveled to Japan while the tournament was already happening. In fact the reason he wasn't showing up for the tournament at first was because he was in Siberia.
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This scene has me sold on these statements being unreliable.
Mach 18? After fighting Gold Saints? This is literally after their Cloths have received amplifications too through Athena's blood.
Also I think "Mach 1" and "Mach 2" are baselines. What I mean is Mach 1 is how fast a Bronze Saint at minimum should be. Mach 2 -5 being the baseline for Silver Saints etc.
Mach 18? After fighting Gold Saints? This is literally after their Cloths have received amplifications too through Athena's blood.
Also I think "Mach 1" and "Mach 2" are baselines. What I mean is Mach 1 is how fast a Bronze Saint at minimum should be. Mach 2 -5 being the baseline for Silver Saints etc.
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You will note that people are very eager to use statements to downplay Saint Seiya and bring up canon debates when it makes the series weaker, but never the opposite.
Well, on the contrary. I'm preparing a revision to tidy up the classic and raise the level of works like omega, G and GA.
Also the Mach 18 scene is a giant outlier since by that point Seiya had used the 7th Sense several times already and had fought many Gold Saint level dudes. Can't believe it's seriously brought up here.
Of course, if you can prove at that moment he was eith the 7th sense activated, then yes it's an outlier, if the opposite, no.
Well, on the contrary. I'm preparing a revision to tidy up the classic and raise the level of works like omega, G and GA.
Also the Mach 18 scene is a giant outlier since by that point Seiya had used the 7th Sense several times already and had fought many Gold Saint level dudes. Can't believe it's seriously brought up here.
Of course, if you can prove at that moment he was eith the 7th sense activated, then yes it's an outlier, if the opposite, no.
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Speaking of unreliable statements, if you were to take the series at face value, you would find that Phoenix Ikki in Next Dimension is only Mach 1, which is completely ridiculous in so many ways I don't even need to explain.
And yeah. Mach 1 and Mach 2 - 5 are baseline, by their shown feats they can be much higher.
And yeah. Mach 1 and Mach 2 - 5 are baseline, by their shown feats they can be much higher.
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If you refer to this, to explain the fact that he doesn't need miracles to be faster than light, then you are right, but understand that it is only his acceleration that makes it possible for an instant to overcome the light, while the miracle constantly makes it faster than light, so I don't see it as something that should be used to support what you say.TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
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Archaron, when they are explaining the speed of the saints early in Episode G Assassin they outright say "The speed of a Gold Saint is far faster than the speed of light."
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you know that claim is by the cloth ikki was wearing, and not for his actually speed, don't you?Matthew Schroeder said:
Unlike the other confirmations of this OP, where the Gold Saints claimed the maximum speed of the bronze boys pre sanctury | Beginning Sanctury by seing they in action, that's just a matter of thinking that ikki is just a common bronze, it's out of sense to use it as an argument.
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No, Cain said that after Ikki attacked him and he blocked his attacks. The statement was legitimately suggesting that Ikki was just Mach 1, which is utterly ridiculous.
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Yes, you're right in that being ridiculous. I reread here and it's really ridiculous. However it's ridiculous because Cain is just talking shit on the basis of his ego, he also says that no matter how much a bronze saint rises his cosmos he wouldn't get out of the speed of sound.
But we know this is a lie, and at no time did the other saints featured in this OP have had such a ridiculous answer for the bronze saints blows just like Cain.
Example:
1. Aldebaran analyzed Seiya punches from Mach 1 to the speed of light when he awakened to the seventh sense.
But we know this is a lie, and at no time did the other saints featured in this OP have had such a ridiculous answer for the bronze saints blows just like Cain.
Example:
1. Aldebaran analyzed Seiya punches from Mach 1 to the speed of light when he awakened to the seventh sense.
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bump
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I disagree, as has already been pointed out in the Next Dimension, the gold saints "declare" that the bronzes are only mach 1 (Cain vs Ikki), or tremendously weaker (Dhoko vs Shiryu), or inferior (Mistoria vs Hyoga).
As I see it, someone wants to interpret everything literally, but if that same interpretation contradicts him then you have to see it differently. Someone is just a downplayer.
As I see it, someone wants to interpret everything literally, but if that same interpretation contradicts him then you have to see it differently. Someone is just a downplayer.
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In the original manga, Shiryu never say that Pegasus Ryu sei Ken* (Ryu Sei ken is Marin technique), is more tha one hundreds punches per second, he says that is one hundred punches per second in fact.
And in the chapter itself it is said the speed, Shiryu could react to the Pegasus Ryu Sei because only a few of punchs of seiya could reach mach 1.
And in the chapter itself it is said the speed, Shiryu could react to the Pegasus Ryu Sei because only a few of punchs of seiya could reach mach 1.
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First: if the Ryusei Ken is 100 blows per second how do some be slower?
Second: the flashback illustration shows seiya without cloth, so it is likely that Shiryu's words refer to the last attack and not to the previous, moreover he was hit by at least one of those blows, so it's plausible that he was just bragging or they were even faster.
Third: even in my country the virus is rampant so we are both in the shit
Second: the flashback illustration shows seiya without cloth, so it is likely that Shiryu's words refer to the last attack and not to the previous, moreover he was hit by at least one of those blows, so it's plausible that he was just bragging or they were even faster.
Third: even in my country the virus is rampant so we are both in the shit
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1. It is explained that Seiya had not yet mastered the technique, because he was an inexperienced bronze saint.
2. The attack that Shiryu is showing is just after Shiryu and Seiya start to fight without the cloths, which is after the scan that Shiryu is defending the attacks with his shield.
3. Sadly
2. The attack that Shiryu is showing is just after Shiryu and Seiya start to fight without the cloths, which is after the scan that Shiryu is defending the attacks with his shield.
3. Sadly
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