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Saint seiya dowgrade
- Thread starter Saiyan40009
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- saint seiya
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That's Omega, where there is the super sense known as Omega, a sense that doesn't exist in the main universe or any other series of the franchise, and they are still Saints. In the main universe or any other universe it is only limited to the protagonists, the rest just die or are defeated by an enemy.
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Why are we talking baout Miracles here?
Also Miracles are not strictly for humans. Saturn also has the power of Omega
also i have an entire imgur album dedicated to miracles spanning all canons
Also Miracles are not strictly for humans. Saturn also has the power of Omega
also i have an entire imgur album dedicated to miracles spanning all canons
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Saturn does not have the power of Omega. He even describes Omega as a power of humans.
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I am genuinely convinced that you hate the series and will stop at nothing to see it down to the ground. so you put on this facade
Subaru is Saturn.
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Subaru, not Saturn. Subaru is the human form of Saturn, before he became a god again when he absorbed the cosmos of Athena and Pallas.I am genuinely convinced that you hate the series and will stop at nothing to see it down to the ground.
Subaru is Saturn.
He only gets that power because he became a human and formed a connection with Koda and the rest.
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Sure what ever you say
but anyways what does miracles ahve to do with conceptual manipulation?
but anyways what does miracles ahve to do with conceptual manipulation?
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It is only probability manipulation and it is a power exclusive to humans (and usually only used by Saints) as Athena herself says.
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What comment equated miracles to concepts? Who said that?
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I was making the case that certain senses give users common abilities, such as the ability to generate miracles when one unlocks the 7th sense. This was because Lancelot argued that conceptual existence/manipulation was exclusive to Hades and Eris despite every god having divine will
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Yes, but this is not the case, and even cosmos users who awaken the 7th Sense have different abilities, for example all of Shaka's abilities compared to Seiya's abilities.
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There have been very rare instances of non-7th sense users using miracles but their not as impressive as miracles 7th sense users would have.
Miracles are a bundled package of abilities
Lancelot is of the beliefe that nothing should cross scale even in the same universe.
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This isn't a very good comparison
but anyways talking about miracles should be considered derailing for this thread though isn't it?
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When I said this is not possible in the same universe, that some of the stories you cite are not part of the main universe is something different.
The main universe consists of Saint Seiya, Final Edition, Next Dimension, Saintia Sho, Episode.G (still considered part of the main universe, but has some translation problems), Golden Age, Zero, Origin and Destiny.
It is a good comparison, because even among users of the 7th Sense, it does not mean that all have the same abilities, when there are Saints with different abilities than others.
Yes, that's why I said from the beginning that this is only probability manipulation, and does not confirm in any way the conceptual manipulation mentioned in the topic.
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It is since I only made that comparison to illustrate that some gods having conceptual existence while Zeus doesn't would be illogical considering a) Zeus is the king of the gods and b) he also has the divine will
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I was only confused is all.thank you for clarifying
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Status is not important, because even among the gods they have different abilities (Athena and Poseidon do not have the same abilities as Hades), and even among cosmos users there are different abilities depending on the character. A character that is stronger or comparable to another does not automatically gain that character's abilities, so it doesn't work that way.
If you want Zeus to have conceptual manipulation just post a scene where he mentions that he has that ability or that he is using it.
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Hasty12345
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If your counter argument is “Just because Zeus is stronger doesn’t mean he should get the abilities of lower gods” you fundamentally misunderstood the argument.
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If your only argument is to assume that a character has the same abilities just because he is comparable, it means you have no evidence for it.
Hasty12345
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Superior, you mean. But even if you ignore the fact that Zeus is the king of the gods, and has no reason not to possess the same conceptual nature as his bretheren, he still has the divine will, which is what enables conceptual shenanigans in the first place
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Aye aye aye. The argument is that Divine Will grants Conceptual Manipulation to all other Olympians, to which Zeus's is the best, you have no argument here.
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Clearly you have not read the topic and you still haven't posted evidence of conceptual manipulation by Zeus.
Comparable due to what Hypnos described. Why would he have that ability, if he doesn't have the same abilities as Hades and represents something different this universe. Where is it mentioned that divine will grants this ability in the main universe?. In addition, Poseidon and Athena also have no feats of conceptual manipulation (the profile of these characters does not provide evidence of conceptual manipulation). Hades is the only one who has feats of these and only because he manipulates the life and death of mortals, an ability that Athena, Zeus and Poseidon do not have.
You are only assuming that Zeus has these abilities, and you have not posted any evidence that he possesses them.
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Hasty12345
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The Divine Will is the force for which all gods abilities derive from.
As I’ve said before, Zeus’ page is mostly blank at the moment and only has generic God/Divine Will abilities because he hasn’t shown up yet.
As I’ve said before, Zeus’ page is mostly blank at the moment and only has generic God/Divine Will abilities because he hasn’t shown up yet.
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It's a logical extrapolation, Lancelot. The only reason Hades has conceptual manipulation is because he's a god, the only reason he is a god is because he has the Divine Will. Therefore, the Divine Will, which is what makes a "god" in Saint Seiya a god, allows for conceptual shenanigans. Again, what you are arguing is the equivalent of saying Seiya can't perform miracles because he doesn't have access to Tenbu Horin.
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This is never mentioned in Kurumada's work, where the gods are born as gods and do not awaken anything. And the ability to manipulate the life and death of mortals is not a generic ability of the gods, because even Athena, Poseidon and Hades do not have that ability.
The reason is only because he is the god who represents life and death in this universe, a quality that the other gods do not have, because Zeus is the god of lightning and Poseidon is the god of the seas. He is a god because he was born as a god, but this does not mean that all gods have the same abilities and represent the same in this universe. Hades has the power to manipulate the life and death of mortals, but Athena, Poseidon and Zeus do not have that ability. I ask again, where is it mentioned that divine will grants this ability in the main universe?.
Seiya can also awaken the 7th Sense and can even be stronger, but this does not mean that he can use Shaka's Tenbu Horin (he has law manipulation and dimension creation with this technique, but Seiya does not have these abilities) or the abilities of this Saint.
And you continue to provide no evidence of Zeus' conceptual manipulation.
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I don't think using Zodiac specific abilities is a good comparison to use. tenbu horin is constellation locked/specific.
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also the Divine Will can affect abstract existing stars to affect the fates of those born under them.
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What is the evidence for this in the main universe.
Constellations are not abstract, the stars exist in the universe and manipulating the movement of stars in the universe is not a conceptual manipulation.
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There are some constellatioons taht no longer exist. lost forever by time. However, there are still poeple tied to the fate of those stars, and the divine will fo the gods fill the universe and influence the the stars
Taizen, Gigamatchi, and Classic series
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These constellations exist in the universe of Saint Seiya (are just celestial bodies in the universe, even the distortion in space and time that threatens the universe is moving all the stars in the universe like the constellations of the Saints), even the Pope observes the movement of the stars from Star Hill to predict the future, this was even shown in the last chapters of Next Dimension. The power to move the stars is not conceptual manipulation, it is only telekinesis. Where is this description of the divine will mentioned in Kurumada's manga?.
Hypermyth and Gigantomachy are not part of the main universe.
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He thinks he's objective, when his subjectivity is what drives this try of CRT. Things won't gonna change for a whim of him. Also, I disagree with everything this CRT brought to the table.
Hasty12345
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This has been rejected and can probably closed.
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I do not see what reason for this to be closed lancelot argued that the hypermito nisiquera is something official or. even the existence of the great voluntas. apart from you so as not to show that you can maintain the skill
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I do not see what reason for this to be closed lancelot argued that the hypermito nisiquera is something official or. even the existence of the great voluntas. apart from you so as not to show that you can maintain the skill
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Please speak a little more coherently. We can't speak something that looks like it's gone through a machine translation 10 times.
This has been rejected by pretty much everyone, ad finitum and stone walling do not work here.
Hasty12345
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The 2001 hyper myth is accepted canon.
make a canon CRT to change that.
this thread has been rejected and should be closed.
make a canon CRT to change that.
this thread has been rejected and should be closed.
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It was never accepted as canon and is not even named in the sites used to define the canon of this franchise in the wiki.
The wiki has no page to explain why this work is canon and what Kurumada's participation in this work is. Even the Hypermyth information is contradicted by the new works of Kurumada and Saintia Sho which is accepted as part of the main universe in the wiki.
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