Saint Seiya additional abilities to apply globally

[TheUnshakableOne]

6th sense Users (Bronze Saints and Silver Saints):

• Additional Passive Hax (?): Passive Matter Manipulation (Atomic Destruction - The Cloth Armor the Saints wear is endowed with the power of Cosmo therefore upon touching it would break apart atoms)

7th sense users (Gold Saints and above such as their equals and Gods)

• Passive (?) Matter Manipulation Passive Matter Manipulation (Quantum Destruction such as Photons - With mastery of the 7th sense the user are wrapped in a barrier of Cosmo.)

8th sense users

• Regeneration; Low-Godly: These users are able to regenerate a new body from their soul. For Example; Shaka had his body completely destroyed, and we see him again later in the underworld.

Resistances to (Gods also get resistance to these as the gods have mastered the 8th sense and went beyond that)

• Death Manipulation: The Underworld kills any being that was "alive" when entering into it.
• Law Manipulation: With the 8th Sense, the user are able to stay "alive" in the Underworld. The Underworld's laws, imposed by Hades Divine Will, will no longer apply to the users whom have awakened the 8th Sense.

Gods: (Gods such as Thanatos, Hypnos, God Cloths, Hecate, and Kairor (yoma) are excluded from this)

• Regeneration Negation Up to Mid-Godly, and Immortality Negation of Types: 3; 4; 6; 8, and 9: The Divine weapons were created with the intention to permanently kill gods. For example. Gaia created a weapon for the king of the Titans Cronos to slay Uranus. Gaia then proceeded to create weapons for all twelve of the Titans whom all gone to war with the Olympians whom consisted of gods such as Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon. Athena was capable of destroying the true body, and soul of Typhon. Hades had various methods to permanently kill Athena as Athena's death was needed to conquer the world of the living. The Sword of Chrysus is noted to be capable of killing Gods such as Athena. Typhon is a biological weapon created by the union of Gaia and Uranus with the intention to end the reign of the Olympians.
  
  
• Possibly Resistance to Regeneration Negation and Immortality negation: Typhon had his true body, and soul permanently destroyed by Athena, but he later returned as his "Divine Will." Gods such as Poseidon, Zeus, and Hades continue to come back despite Athena's ability to permanently destroy the body, and soul of Typhon. The Titan King Cronus was able to permanently kill Uranus with a weapon that Gaia created. Later Gaia created more weapons for the Titans that were later used in a war against the Olympians which were ineffective against them in a war that lasted "10 god years." Athena used The Sword of Chrysus to kill her ownself in an attempt to help her reach the Eighth Sense and it worked. She was seen later flying out of the Underworld, and in later works such as Next Dimension, and Assassins. Typhon is a biological weapon created by the union of Gaia and Uranus with the intention to end the reign of the Olympians, but he proven to be ineffective in killing Zeus.

 

[Hasty12345]

looks good for the most part

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Gods:
The Type 9 negation comes from the Titan King Cronos casually creating a dagger that ended up being used aganist him. He was in his astral/non-corporal form, and the dagger slashed his Astral form which Then proceeded to cut his true body which was in another world/universe entirely (and made that body bleed) Also, there is emphasis on the "possibly" here

• Regeneration Negation Up to Mid-Godly, and Immortality Negation of Types: 3; 4; 6; 8, and 9: The Divine weapons were created with the intention to permanently kill gods.
• Possibly Resistance to Regeneration Negation and Immortality negation: Typhon had his true body permanently destroyed by Athena, but he later returned as just a soul and will. Gods such as Poseidon, Zeus, and Hades continue to come back despite Athena's ability to permanently destroy the body of Typhon. Gaia created weapons that could slay the gods, themselves. The Titan King Cronus was able to permanently kill Uranus, but these weapons the titans had were ineffective in the war against the Olympians.

We will probably have to degrade regeneration and immortality, because the gods have never returned after their divine souls are completely destroyed, it is even indicated that to destroy a god one must destroy his divine soul.

The divine weapons or sacred treasures can kill gods, because they destroy their divine souls.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

We will probably have to degrade regeneration and immortality, because the gods have never returned after their divine souls are completely destroyed, it is even indicated that to destroy a god one must destroy his divine soul.

That could be a thread on its own in the future.

but i will say i see an issue with that argument if we look at hades in classic and then his reappearance.

Though a deeper elaboration on what a "Divine Will" is would help a lot. Someone like Typhon could exist purely as his "Divine Will" instead of his soul and in addition to that his body was destroyed completely and he could not return to it.

Though if they get low-godly regen it will be utterly broken

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

That could be a thread on its own in the future.

but i will say i see an issue with that argument if we look at hades in classic and then his reappearance.

Though a deeper elaboration on what a "Divine Will" is would help a lot. Someone like Typhon could exist purely as his "Divine Will" instead of his soul and in addition to that his body was destroyed completely and he could not return to it.

Though if they get low-godly regen it will be utterly broken

Hades is well dead in the classic manga, and he will never return, even his world was completely destroyed after his death. Athena destroys Hades with Nike, one of the most powerful Sacred Treasures in the entire franchise, that's why the god will never return.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Hades is well dead in the classic manga, and he will never return, even his world was completely destroyed after his death.

lets just focus on the points in this thread (the OP) and debate regeneration typing on a separate thread. As this is not an upgrade/downgrade to regeneration

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

8th sense users

• Regeneration; Low-Godly: These users are able to regenerate a new body from their soul. For Example; Shaka had his body completely destroyed, and we see him again later in the underworld.

Probably the Gold Saints need a better immortality, because they did return after their body and soul was completely destroyed in the explosion of the Wailing Wall . Even in Next Dimension we can see that they returned as super spirits to help Athena and Shijima.

And also add time travel in his astral form, because they can cross space and time in that form.

Athena: 今は亡き黄金聖闘士の魂が時空を超えてわたしを守っている!!

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Probably the Gold Saints need a better immortality, because they did return after their body and soul was completely destroyed in the explosion of the Wailing Wall . Even in Next Dimension we can see that they returned as super spirits to help Athena and Shijima.

And also add time travel in his astral form, because they can cross space and time in that form.

今は亡き黄金聖闘士の魂が時空を超えてわたしを守っている!!

Wow thats... a great point actually.. but let's focus on just the OP. I'll be making other CRTs in the future and I'll definitely consider this next after I get more input on concepts and acausality those are what I'd like to do do next.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Gods:
The Type 9 negation comes from the Titan King Cronos casually creating a dagger that ended up being used aganist him. He was in his astral/non-corporal form, and the dagger slashed his Astral form which Then proceeded to cut his true body which was in another world/universe entirely (and made that body bleed) Also, there is emphasis on the "possibly" here

• Regeneration Negation Up to Mid-Godly, and Immortality Negation of Types: 3; 4; 6; 8, and 9: The Divine weapons were created with the intention to permanently kill gods.
• Possibly Resistance to Regeneration Negation and Immortality negation: Typhon had his true body permanently destroyed by Athena, but he later returned as just a soul and will. Gods such as Poseidon, Zeus, and Hades continue to come back despite Athena's ability to permanently destroy the body of Typhon. Gaia created weapons that could slay the gods, themselves. The Titan King Cronus was able to permanently kill Uranus, but these weapons the titans had were ineffective in the war against the Olympians.

Some details and clarifications on this, the golden dagger is not created by Cronos, because that dagger exists since the ancient holy war and the Kyoko uses it to try to kill Athena (again), some theorize that it may be the sword of Chrysus from the titles of the next chapters of Next Dimension, but we will have to wait for the return of the manga in the next few weeks.

The immortality of the Titans with the exception of Cronos (described as a great god at the level of Athena) is different from the immortality of the rest of the gods, because it is described that their immortality depends on their Ichor (divine blood) and deumanis, therefore, it eliminates their blood completely and they die. Even in Requiem the Titans and Cyclopes are described as an imperfect race in comparison to the great gods, and only Athena is described by the primordial gods as a great god who is immortal and knows no death. And a Cyclops like Arges investigates the effect of karma flames on Athena to create a weapon to kill a great god.

The divine weapons or sacred treasures of Athena, Hades, and Poseidon can permanently kill gods, because these weapons can completely destroy the divine soul of the gods.

 

[Kumagawaa]

Cronus permanently killing Uranus kinda gets negged in Episode G Requiem tbh, since Pontos uses the power of Uranus to erase the constellations based on the talk between Shion and Mu. And there’s many statements from Steropes about Uranus which kinda hints at him still being alive.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

6th sense Users (Bronze Saints and Silver Saints):

• Additional Passive Hax (?): Passive Matter Manipulation (Atomic destruction - The very cloth armor they wear needs to be endowed with Cosmo or else it becomes a very heavy weight to the user therefore touching the armor would result in atomic destruction.)

I agree with this.

7th sense users (Gold Saints and above such as their equals and Gods)

• Passive (?) Matter Manipulation (Quantum matter destruction such as photons and electrons; They cover their whole body with a shield made purely of Cosmo and is not limited to just their Cloth armor)

Also with this.

8th sense users

• Regeneration; Low-Godly: These users are able to regenerate a new body from their soul. For Example; Shaka had his body completely destroyed, and we see him again later in the underworld.

Resistances to (Gods also get resistance to these as the gods have mastered the 8th sense and went beyond that)

• Death Manipulation: The Underworld kills any being that was "alive" when entering into it.
• Law Manipulation: With the 8th Sense, the user are able to stay "alive" in the Underworld. The Underworld's laws, imposed by Hades Divine Will, will no longer apply to the users whom have awakened the 8th Sense.

And this, although I think the Gold Saints probably need an update on their immortality.

Gods:
The Type 9 negation comes from the Titan King Cronos casually creating a dagger that ended up being used aganist him. He was in his astral/non-corporal form, and the dagger slashed his Astral form which Then proceeded to cut his true body which was in another world/universe entirely (and made that body bleed) Also, there is emphasis on the "possibly" here

• Regeneration Negation Up to Mid-Godly, and Immortality Negation of Types: 3; 4; 6; 8, and 9: The Divine weapons were created with the intention to permanently kill gods.
• Possibly Resistance to Regeneration Negation and Immortality negation: Typhon had his true body permanently destroyed by Athena, but he later returned as just a soul and will. Gods such as Poseidon, Zeus, and Hades continue to come back despite Athena's ability to permanently destroy the body of Typhon. Gaia created weapons that could slay the gods, themselves. The Titan King Cronus was able to permanently kill Uranus, but these weapons the titans had were ineffective in the war against the Olympians.

This part needs some clarification. Although the weapons of Athena, Hades and Poseidon can kill gods, therefore these weapons and objects with the divine cosmos of the gods (also named as sacred treasures) can negate the immortality that these gods possess.

 

[Hasty12345]

Probably the Gold Saints need a better immortality, because they did return after their body and soul was completely destroyed in the explosion of the Wailing Wall . Even in Next Dimension we can see that they returned as super spirits to help Athena and Shijima.

And also add time travel in his astral form, because they can cross space and time in that form.

Athena: 今は亡き黄金聖闘士の魂が時空を超えてわたしを守っている!!

are you saying Gold Saints should have mid-godly regen but Hades shouldn't?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

are you saying Gold Saints should have mid-godly regen but Hades shouldn't?

It is not regeneration, because they do not regenerate their physical body, they only appeared as spirits after they were completely destroyed in body and soul.

And the Gold Saints reached a state of existence that not even the gods themselves can reach, they can even cross through space and time, something that not even a god like Athena can do.

The Gold Saints reached true eternity and Shaka literally explains that he currently exists on a plane like Nirvana, and the rest probably also exist on Nirvana or a similar plane of existence.

 

[Hasty12345]

It is not regeneration, because they do not regenerate their physical body, they only appeared as spirits after they were completely destroyed in body and soul.

type 9 immortality maybe?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Guys... im sorry but I don't want to turn this into a discussion about what type of Regeneration they should have..

It would derail this thread

 

[Hasty12345]

Regeneration; Low-Godly: These users are able to regenerate a new body from their soul. For Example; Shaka had his body completely destroyed, and we see him again later in the underworld.

wrong link here

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

wrong link here

Oops i never got that lmao

Edit: I think i fixed it.

 

[deonment]

reading over this, seems good

 

[DaReaperMan]

I agree with everything here

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Seems fine

 

[Kumagawaa]

6th sense Users (Bronze Saints and Silver Saints):

Is the argument for this is that all contact with Cosmo makes you get destroyed on atomic levels?

7th sense users (Gold Saints and above such as their equals and Gods)

If this is accepted shouldn’t this apply to all Saints since when Tenma did it, I don’t recall him having the 7th sense, just the 6th since he unlocked the 7th sense later on? Correct me if I’m wrong though.

8th sense users

Shouldn’t this feat also be Mid-Godly considering we see his soul still there but it fades away after he writes Arayashiki on the petals?

Correct me if I’m wrong on any of those.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Is the argument for this is that all contact with Cosmo makes you get destroyed on atomic levels?

Yes since that is the nature of what Cosmo is, and the fundamental power of Cosmo.

If this is accepted shouldn’t this apply to all Saints since when Tenma did it, I don’t recall him having the 7th sense, just the 6th since he unlocked the 7th sense later on? Correct me if I’m wrong though.

he was training to use his 7th sense on that island where the gemini saint was.

Shouldn’t this feat also be Mid-Godly considering we see his soul still there but it fades away after he writes Arayashiki on the petals?

You do bring up a very good point. Though it could be him traveling to the underworld in a weird way, possibly?

 

[Kumagawaa]

Yes since that is the nature of what Cosmo is, and the fundamental power of Cosmo.



he was training to use his 7th sense on that island where the gemini saint was.






You do bring up a very good point. Though it could be him traveling to the underworld in a weird way, possibly?

Yes since that is the nature of what Cosmo is, and the fundamental power of Cosmo.

oh I see, though I thought that was generally for when you were trying to destroy something rather than just coming into contact with Cosmo.

he was training to use his 7th sense on that island where the gemini saint was.

I totally don’t even remember this scene

You do bring up a very good point. Though it could be him traveling to the underworld in a weird way, possibly?

that’s how I interpreted it though it’s possible it’s what you said. Sadly it’s unknown what really happened. I just took it as destroyed since that’s kinda what looks like is happening.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me

 

[SagaTheLegend]

Hard disagree with all

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Hard disagree with all

Care to explain why?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hard disagree with all

And why is that?

 

[sanicspood]

Hard disagree with all

imagine disagreeing without explaining why, clown behavoiur

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

I agree with these changes. Also I want to point out Kurumada confirms Shaka was completely erased to nothingness and he was still able to come back via the 8th sense

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Looks good.

 

[Eficiente]

Evaluating w/o knowing the verse

• Additional Passive Hax (?): Passive Matter Manipulation (Atomic destruction - The very cloth armor they wear needs to be endowed with Cosmo or else it becomes a very heavy weight to the user therefore touching the armor would result in atomic destruction.)

I fail to see the part where touching it results in atomic destruction.

• Passive (?) Matter Manipulation (Quantum matter destruction such as photons and electrons; They cover their whole body with a shield made purely of Cosmo and is not limited to just their Cloth armor)

If Cosmo is that then yes.

• Regeneration; Low-Godly: These users are able to regenerate a new body from their soul. For Example; Shaka had his body completely destroyed, and we see him again later in the underworld.

I don't agree with this. The part where you point out how the soul may be being erased has no evidence of it when it's far more reasonable for that to just be a means of transportation. And regaining a body in some afterlife off-panel should just be a mechanic of the place, not by one's own power, that's very common in fiction.

• Death Manipulation: The Underworld kills any being that was "alive" when entering into it.
• Law Manipulation: With the 8th Sense, the user are able to stay "alive" in the Underworld. The Underworld's laws, imposed by Hades Divine Will, will no longer apply to the users whom have awakened the 8th Sense.

Seems to be correct.

 

[deonment]

I fail to see the part where touching it results in atomic destruction.

because due to the armor being endowed with cosmo touching it should have the same effects as cosmo would, aka atomic destruction

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Evaluating w/o knowing the verse

I fail to see the part where touching it results in atomic destruction.

If Cosmo is that then yes.

I don't agree with this. The part where you point out how the soul may be being erased has no evidence of it when it's far more reasonable for that to just be a means of transportation. And regaining a body in some afterlife off-panel should just be a mechanic of the place, not by one's own power, that's very common in fiction.

Seems to be correct.

Thank you. I really appreciate your input!

Currently I'm at work but I'll elaborate further on those abilities for you once I'm home.

 

[Eficiente]

because due to the armor being endowed with cosmo touching it should have the same effects as cosmo would, aka atomic destruction

Very well then, that link should only cover the part saying that Cosmo covers their armor and the part saying that it causes atomic destruction should link whatever evidence we have for Cosmo doing that.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

im home now. I'll post some scans that should hopefully help with the regeneration for gold saints soon.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I don't agree with this. The part where you point out how the soul may be being erased has no evidence of it when it's far more reasonable for that to just be a means of transportation. And regaining a body in some afterlife off-panel should just be a mechanic of the place, not by one's own power, that's very common in fiction.

I think your response here is quiet reasonable. Thats why i don't think anything higher than Low-Godly could work (low Godly via regen a new body with the soul and mind being the only thing that remains)

Allow me to explain a bit more


Using Lost Canvas an example

The underworld is a separate existence that only souls go too. The body remains in the living world.

The Unicorn Saint isn't waking up because his soul is still in the underworld, but his body remained in the living Universe [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

Some characters had their bodies destroyed prior to entering the underworld.

Camus, Saga, and Shura had their physical bodies reduced to nothing (slowly over time; even the fine dust shown here disappears) [1] [2] [3]
The three are seen later revived completely

Kanon is a bit trickier. We have no idea how he got into the underworld. Perhaps his physical body remains for him to return to it? Or perhaps he decided to forget having a physical body? He committed suicide in the underworld with a Galaxian explosion, and he later returned to be the Pope [1] [2] [3]

Then lastly; there is the Main Bronze Saints. Shun, Shiryu, and Hyoga were Hades castle as it was collapsing. The castle was notably going to "kill them" so they had to pick to forfeit their bodies and forcefully awaken the 8th sense, or stay and die to the collapsing castle The are later then scene in the next issue of the series Saint Seiya Next Dimension, and then in series further beyond that. Their the main characters after all.

but if everyone is okay with just yeeting it. im cool with that.

Edit: Also for the atomic destruction part. Were you looking for something like this

Passive Matter Manipulation (Atomic Destruction - The Cloth Armor the Saints wear is endowed with the power of Cosmo therefore upon touching it would break apart atoms)? There is 2 different links here. Here is an alternate scan to the 2nd link. Both are official material just one is newer than the other.

 

[Eficiente]

Sorry, I can't keep up with that, I'll leave the people who knows the verse see over that while they know what I brought up and hopefully everything ends up accurate.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Sorry, I can't keep up with that, I'll leave the people who knows the verse see over that while they know what I brought up and hopefully everything ends up accurate.

Thank you for your input though sir.. I do greatly appreciate that..

 

[StekFence]

I agree

 

[StekFence]

I think your response here is quiet reasonable. Thats why i don't think anything higher than Low-Godly could work (low Godly via regen a new body with the soul and mind being the only thing that remains)

Allow me to explain a bit more


Using Lost Canvas an example

The underworld is a separate existence that only souls go too. The body remains in the living world.

The Unicorn Saint isn't waking up because his soul is still in the underworld, but his body remained in the living Universe [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

Some characters had their bodies destroyed prior to entering the underworld.

Camus, Saga, and Shura had their physical bodies reduced to nothing (slowly over time; even the fine dust shown here disappears) [1] [2] [3]
The three are seen later revived completely

Kanon is a bit trickier. We have no idea how he got into the underworld. Perhaps his physical body remains for him to return to it? Or perhaps he decided to forget having a physical body? He committed suicide in the underworld with a Galaxian explosion, and he later returned to be the Pope [1] [2] [3]

Then lastly; there is the Main Bronze Saints. Shun, Shiryu, and Hyoga were Hades castle as it was collapsing. The castle was notably going to "kill them" so they had to pick to forfeit their bodies and forcefully awaken the 8th sense, or stay and die to the collapsing castle The are later then scene in the next issue of the series Saint Seiya Next Dimension, and then in series further beyond that. Their the main characters after all.

but if everyone is okay with just yeeting it. im cool with that.

Edit: Also for the atomic destruction part. Were you looking for something like this

Passive Matter Manipulation (Atomic Destruction - The Cloth Armor the Saints wear is endowed with the power of Cosmo therefore upon touching it would break apart atoms)? There is 2 different links here. Here is an alternate scan to the 2nd link. Both are official material just one is newer than the other.

Well, kanon does have dimensional travel if I’m not wrong, so its Possible he came like that.