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Ryüko Matoi vs. Saber (Fate/Stay Night)

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Burning_Full_Fingers

Burning_Full_Fingers

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Battle takes place in Fuyuki City.

Ryüko: 1

Saber: 7

True Life Fiber Synchronize Ryüko and Fate Saber. Assume that Tohsaka is Saber's master. Both of them are bloodlusted. Who takes it?
 
Alright here goes nothing and sorry for the long post in advance :)

What Ryuko has going on for herself here:

1. Range, at least most of the time. Her slashes have a great deal of range and it will prove difficult for Saber to fight at a distance.

2. Flight. Coupled with range it becomes even more bothersome to fight against.

3. Two minds in one. Ryuko and Senketsu can work together to come up with a plan to beat Saber.

4. High level rege.

5. Better efficiency under bloodlusted state. Ryuko is arguably a better fighter when she's bloodlusted, that's her thing and yes it doesn't make sense, but neither does Ryuko so...

What Saber has going on for her that can counter Ryuko's strong points:

1. Skill and experience. She in undoubtedly a more skilled duelist than Ryuko. She has been shown to dodge hundreds of minigun bullets fired from an enhanced-to-NoblePhantasm-level minigun. Also she can fire casual Excalibur blasts and create wind barriers to protect herself.

2. Decent amount of passive regen, even better with Avalon.

3. Unparalleled instinct. Basically precog. Allows Saber to find/analyze any opening in the opponent's defense, however tiny it may be. Also grants her a vision of sorts of what the opponent's is going for next.

4. Avalon's active. Saber can turtle in there to regain composure, heal herself or bypass Ryuko's strongest attacks.

5. Excalibur. Definitely the game changer in this fight. It's holy light can destroy to an atomic level and it's area of effect is huge.


All in all, I believe Saber has this 6/10. The fact that they are bloodlusted brings down this number as Ryuko fights better under these conditions. However Saber's Excalibur will prove completely fatal to Ryuko since her regen is not enough to save her. Sorry Ryuko :(
 
Actually, I don't mind the long post. Thanks for the analysis.

Saber: 1 (ScarletFirefly)

Ryüko: 0
 
@ScarletFirefly

Can Saber's Excalibur bypass High-Mid Regenerationn?

Never mind, I just noticed the atomic destruction stuff.
 
Even with speed equalized shouldn't Senketsu give Ryuko a large stat advantage over Saber. When combined with her durability and regen, it would make most of what Saber can do save for Excalibur-blast rather useless. It doesn't help that Excalibur has a charge time to.

Also does Saber have Avalon in this fight? I saw in the Op that this was Fate Saber so I was wondering if it was from the first fate route. If she does then she could turn this into a battle of attrition and win that way.
 
Muu0934 said:
Even with speed equalized shouldn't Senketsu give Ryuko a large stat advantage over Saber.
Click to expand...
How so? Her stats are measured when she's donning it, not without.

Muu0934 said:
When combined with her durability and regen, it would make most of what Saber can do save for Excalibur-blast rather useless. It doesn't help that Excalibur has a charge time to.
Click to expand...
Not really. The fact that speed is equalized poses a great problem for Ryuko due to Saber's precog. Most of the attacks will miss and any openings would be identified immediately. Also Excalibur doesn't have a big charge time. When Saber battles Rider during the Fate Route, she charges it by the time Rider reaches her. Bear in mind Rider is one of the swiftest Servants alongside Lancer and she had her Pegasus. Also she has been shown to blast Excalibur in smaller bursts instantly when the target was not more than 10m away from her. With small bursts she can atomize parts of Ryuko's body, the full charge will eradicate her.

Muu0934 said:
Also does Saber have Avalon in this fight? I saw in the Op that this was Fate Saber so I was wondering if it was from the first fate route. If she does then she could turn this into a battle of attrition and win that way.
Click to expand...
Avalon doesn't really matter here. The fact that they are bloodlusted will make them charge head on to each other. Once Saber exchanges a couple of blows with her, she'll realize she can regen and will go for Excalibur. Or just that right off the bat.
 
ScarletFirefly said:
Muu0934 said:
Even with speed equalized shouldn't Senketsu give Ryuko a large stat advantage over Saber.
Click to expand...
How so? Her stats are measured when she's donning it, not without.


Muu0934 said:
When combined with her durability and regen, it would make most of what Saber can do save for Excalibur-blast rather useless. It doesn't help that Excalibur has a charge time to.
Click to expand...
Not really. The fact that speed is equalized poses a great problem for Ryuko due to Saber's precog. Most of the attacks will miss and any openings would be identified immediately. Also Excalibur doesn't have a big charge time. When Saber battles Rider during the Fate Route, she charges it by the time Rider reaches her. Bear in mind Rider is one of the swiftest Servants alongside Lancer and she had her Pegasus. Also she has been shown to blast Excalibur in smaller bursts instantly when the target was not more than 10m away from her. With small bursts she can atomize parts of Ryuko's body, the full charge will eradicate her.
Click to expand...
Ryuko is around 7-A at base and 6-B when doning the True Syncronization Senketsu iirc. This should put her beyond Saber in stats save for AP and( in this thread) speed.

In this instance are you referring to the prana burst that Saber uses? Isn't a bit different from the full Excalibur-blast that she used against Rider in Fate. Also its been shown in HF with a version of Saber that had higher AP, that its possible to prevent her from using it so long as the target keeps in close range. So to make the most of it Saber would need time a distance though her "instinct" would greatly help avoiding fatal injuries.
 
Muu0934 said:
In this instance are you referring to the prana burst that Saber uses? Isn't a bit different from the full Excalibur-blast that she used against Rider in Fate. Also its been shown in HF with a version of Saber that had higher AP, that its possible to prevent her from using it so long as the target keeps in close range. So to make the most of it Saber would need time a distance though her "instinct" would greatly help avoiding fatal injuries.
Click to expand...
Not referrering to Prana Bursts. Referring to Fate/Zero after Saber and Iskandar had that "race". Saber used Excalibur ~10m away from Iskandar as he was charging with his Gordius Wheel. He managed to escape, but the chariot was pulverized.
 
I agree with ScarletFireflys reasoning. This is a close battle but Saber can win with Excaliblast.
 
Won't Saber be like standing still casting Excalibur? And wouldn't the attack be easy to dodge because of the priming especially considering Ryuko's speed?
 
Speed is equalized (that was added in the first comment)

Also Excalibur's charge time is very short, its range and Sabers accuracy and control over the spread of the blast quite good. I don't think she would have too much trouble to hit Ryuko.
 
If Saber's excaliblast no longer has atomisation as an inherent property, I vote Ryuko. Her regen is practically instant, as in "completely healed by the time the weapon leaves the wound". So that charge time for excaliblast, small as it may be, is still enough time for Ryuko to regen completely, and with her dura equal or higher than excaliblast's AP, she won't be completely one-shot at any point.

Plus, Ryuko gets stronger the closer she is to death, so even Saber can deal significant damage, Ryuko will just get even stronger and more durable. With reactive evolution, I'm pretty sure she could do something to redirect/nullify excalibur's light like she did with Jakuzure's sound waves, like shaping Senketsu into a mirror or something similar. Additionally, Senjin would make close combat more dangerous that normal for Saber, while Shippu grants Ryuko superior mobility and could just let Ryuko fly out of Saber's range. And even if Ryuko is disorientated, Senketsu can still attack or get Ryuko out of harm's way.

Edit: Furthermore, Saber can and will run out of prana if she keeps spamming excaliblast, which is the only attack she has that can do any actual damage to Ryuko, while Ryuko has no such limitation.
 
The Excalibur blast has vaporization. Ryuko's Regenerationn doesn't protect her from it since it's High-Mid compared to the required Mid-High to survive vaporization. And her Durability isn't equal to Excalibur's power output.

With reactive evolution, I'm pretty sure she could do something to redirect/nullify excalibur's light like she did with Jakuzure's sound waves, like shaping Senketsu into a mirror or something similar.
That's a NLF if I ever saw one. Even if that was true, which is ridiculous to even consider, she still would need several exposures to the attack to evolve into something that can withstand it. Such a thing is impossible considering even one attack from Excalibur will turn her into dust.

And she still has to go through Saber's instincts. She's an average hotheaded fighter with no real technique in fighting and that makes it all the more easy for Saber to predict her attacks.

I'm going with Saber here.
 
Pretty sure Excaliblast only has vapourisation as a byproduct of the energy it releases, and the atoms it hits. It still only outputs Large Mountain levels of energy, and...

Ryuko's dura is "at least Mountain level, likely Higher" for having grown even stronger than when she tanked the point plank explosion of the academy (which is mountain sized). So yeah, her dura is very likely to be equal. Not higher though, that was a mistake on my part. Either way, it still means Excaliblast won't one shot, so Ryuko regens, gets stronger from having come close to death, and now has the experience with the attack in order to use her reactive evolution.

Hardly a nfl. Sound and light are both waves with particle natures, sound due to the nature of the transmission and light due to also being a photon. And considering Senketsu can make himself into rocket thrusters and has molecular in nature regen (not Mid-High, just that if the molecules themselves aren't destroyed the wound can still heal), its not nfl to say he's probably capable of making himself able to reflect light.

Saber's instincts, like all precog, is only useful when there is actually a way to dodge and attack. And her's isn't even perfect precog,its just supernaturally good instincts in battle. With Senjin, its going to be really difficult to get in close due to all the spikes, seeing as one mistake and Saber is impaled. Its far more likely she'd try to dodge back than counter.

Ryuko may be hot headed, but she is hardly predictable. And she is very adaptable in combat.

And like I said in my edit above, Saber will run out of prana, while Ryuko will not. And when that happens...

scissor blades to the neck
 
@Monarch

You're wrong mate.

Saber's Excalibur goes up to Small Island level. And she has Tohsaka as her master so her Circuits are fully charged and since Tohsaka has a crap ton of mana, she can spam that quite a lot. And yes, it will go through her regen like butter.

Yes Rin is right of that one. That's a complete and utter NLF. Just because Senketsu can redirect sound, it doesn't mean he can redirect light. And Excalibur isn't even light to begin with. It's just highly concentrated Prana as a result of "many warriors hopes and dreams" combined with Saber's Dragon Factor.

You're severely underestimating Saber's instinct here. With speed equalized, it poses a huge problem for Ryuko and I will go as far as to say, Ryuko won't be able to hit her 75% of the times she attacks. Saber is in a completely different league comparing to any sworduser Ryuko has faced, and her instincts makes this so much worse. Saber has battled so much more highly skilled opponents and even materialized legends.

Only thing Ryuko has going for her is flight but considering Ryuko's mindset, she's way more likely to get in your face.

I love Ryuko, but this is a battle she absolutely cannot win and is way over her head.
 
I meant Small Island Level, I wasn't clear on whether High 7-A was Large Mountain level or Small Island level. Either way, Ryuko's dura is still "likely higher" than 7-A, which would put her dura in the High 7-A level, equal to Excaliblast's AP, so it won't one shot her, and she will regenerate.

It is not nfl, considering Senketsu has transformation and regen on a molecular level, which makes it is fair to say he can transform on a molecular level, seeing as his regen is a passive byproduct of his transformation abilities. He can probably become reflective. However, I wasn't aware Excaliblast was anything more than weaponised light, so I'll concede that point.

Saber may be and have fought more skilled swordsman, but Ryuko is classifiable as a swordsman only in the sense she has a sword. Spikes spontaneously appearing from all over her clothes mid clash, growing significantly stronger every time she gets a scratch, her own clothing independently acting to attack and warn Ryuko - these are things that Saber has never seen before. And her precog is from what I've seen (having not read the light novels so I don't know if they expand) basically spider sense - tells her when damage is incoming and from what direction. It won't help if damage is coming from all angles.

In the end I believe this battle comes down to whether Excaliblasts one shot or whether Ryuko can survive and regenerate from them. If she can, Saber eventually runs out of Prana while Ryuko just gets stronger and stronger. If she can't, she gets one shot. I am of the opinion that she can survive and regenerate, and will eventually win because of this.
 
Ryuko's "likely higher" is not quantifiable so it cannot be used. And it certainly won't put her straight up High 7-A.

If you say Senketsu can "probably" become reflective due to reactive evolution, that's NLF. He hasn't shown such a thing and trying to quantify reactive evolution is impossible, therefore NLF.

Saber's instincts are much more than Spider Sense. Think of it as an advanced Haki precognition. Always active, grants her foresight of the battle, allows her to identify and analyze any weakness the opponent may have, however small it is and renders any visual and auditory hindrance effectiveness in half.

And Ryuko's spikes do not attack from all angles, more like many instances in the same direction. Saber was able to evade and deflect 20mm autocannon fire capable of firing 200 rounds/second, each of them fatal due to being enhanced from Lancelot's NP, while advancing forward. Some spikes are not going to pose any threat.
 
If the "likely higher" didn't put her into High 7-A from 7-A, there would be no point to having it on her profile. If the "higher" didn't push up her durability a level, it would just be left at 7-A. And if it isn't quanitfiable, then why would it even be on a wiki specifically created to pit characters against each other in a battle? In fact, it's "Higher" because it is likely greater than High 7-A, we just don't know by what magnitude, otherwise it would be written as "likely High 7-A" . I won't go that far though. It's enough to not get one shot by excaliblast, and that's enough.

He can turn himself into rocket thrusters and has molecular transformation. I doubt making himself a bit shinier would be that hard. Either way, I've conceded this point, and there's no point going on about it.

Ok, her precog will help a lot. I concede this point

If you have about 50 spikes exploding towards you, you're going to want to take a step back.

Again. I believe Ryuko can will not be one shot and can regenerate from Excaliblast, and will eventually grow stronger and out stamina Saber. This is how she will win. She'll become so strong she'll shatter Saber's arm when Saber tries to block.
 
"Likely higher" didn't make anyone can decide her to High 7-A. There're also possiblity that she's just "Mountail level+" or just pure mountain level. We can't certainly confirm that.

Anyway, I agree with Scarlet. It's really hard to believe that Ryuko can survive from Excaliblast. Even Ryuko's regen is instantly, but the face that Saber can destroy Caster in one blast. And he has instantly and higher level regen compare to Ryuko. So Saber should destroy her in one blast too.

And like Scarlet said, Saber's sword skills and precog have more advantage.

So I give it to Saber.
 
Ryuko's "likely higher" is since at this point she is on the level of Satsuki.

  • Satsuki is greater than the combined force of her Elite 4.
  • Each member of the Elite 4 can instantly and efforlessly one shot at least 6 COVERs at the same time.
  • And a single COVER can casually curbstomp a Mountain level.
Considering Ryuko would only need to be 9.5x stronger than the last Mountain level, while unquantifiable, I think it's somewhat fair to say she'd at least be close to baseline High 7-A.

And Ryuko's reasons of being "likely higher" are much better than Saber's reasons of being straight up High 7-A. Which is just saying Saber was a lot weaker when she did her Mountain stuff. How is "a fully charged Excalibur is likely to be far more powerful" not as "unquantifiable and certainly not straight up High 7-A" as Ryuko's reasonings?
 
Aren't the Elite 4 like extremely low end Mountain level?

And anyway, Saber's reason for being Small Island level is pretty solid. Her Mountain level feat comes when she was under Shirou's mastery. Considering Rin is leagues above him and even superior as a mage to Kiritsugu, her reason is pretty well founded.
 
The MK2 Elite 4 are extremely low end Mountains since they scale to the Lina's calc which was barely baseline Mountain and MK2 Gamagori was stomped by a COVER. With their newest models they were able to instantly oneshot numerous COVERs.

I'm not saying I disagree with Saber being Small Island. But I'm saying that Ryuko's reasons for likely being Small Island aren't much worse. She has also shown to be many leagues above Mountain level feat.

I'm not voting for anyone in this thread. I'm just pointing out that Ryuko's rating of being likely Small Island is reasonable.
 
I agree with a Mountain+ but High 7-A is kinda stretching it. In fact you should make a thread about it :)
 
Forgot about this before but I just want to say Saber is only allowed to put out a 7-A Excaliblast. Like the one against Rider.
 
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