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Void Shiki vs Ryoma
Speed is equalized
Both are in character
Who wins?
Ryougi Shiki:
Ryoma Takei: 2
Inconclusive: 1
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Ryougi Shiki vs Ryoma Takei
- Thread starter Celestial_Pegasus
- Start date
Void Shiki vs Ryoma
Speed is equalized
Both are in character
Who wins?
Ryougi Shiki:
Ryoma Takei: 2
Inconclusive: 1
GoldenScorpions
He/Him- 3,179
- 1,352
Could Shiki kill Ryoma will her Mystic Eyes or would Ryoma's "protagonist" status protect him from them and avoid death?
Same question for Shiki's Law Manipulation. Can Shiki travel back in time and alter the aspects of Ryoma's "protagonist" status and making it useless, or would Ryoma still be protected by the plot?
Same question for Shiki's Law Manipulation. Can Shiki travel back in time and alter the aspects of Ryoma's "protagonist" status and making it useless, or would Ryoma still be protected by the plot?
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- Thread starter
- #3
Think of it in terms of a story, a protagonist can lose, the villain shows up and beats the crap out of the protagonist, but the protagonist won't die, the villain will find some convenient excuse to leave or something interferes and saves the protagonist.
Then there are times when the protagonist pulls an asspull power out of his ass to beat the villain or the villain does something stupid which allows the protagonist to win. That's how ryoma's protagonist status works, he is the universal protagonist, everyone is apart of a story, and in that story you have a role, even if you're the protagonist in your story, ryoma will take over your spot as the protagonist.
So all of that is due to his protagonist status, he isn't the one doing it, the plot itself does them, and then in addition to that, after going crazy he learns how to actively control the plot itself with 5 cards he has called event cards. With those cards he can basically see what role a person plays in a story, and he can decide what should or shouldn't happen, example "event 1: a girl falls out of the sky and i save her" instantly a girl falls out of the sky and he saves her, "event 2: I gained a new power to defeat the villain", he instantly gains a new power, "event 3: the villain dies", the villain dies, and so on and so forth.
Then there are times when the protagonist pulls an asspull power out of his ass to beat the villain or the villain does something stupid which allows the protagonist to win. That's how ryoma's protagonist status works, he is the universal protagonist, everyone is apart of a story, and in that story you have a role, even if you're the protagonist in your story, ryoma will take over your spot as the protagonist.
So all of that is due to his protagonist status, he isn't the one doing it, the plot itself does them, and then in addition to that, after going crazy he learns how to actively control the plot itself with 5 cards he has called event cards. With those cards he can basically see what role a person plays in a story, and he can decide what should or shouldn't happen, example "event 1: a girl falls out of the sky and i save her" instantly a girl falls out of the sky and he saves her, "event 2: I gained a new power to defeat the villain", he instantly gains a new power, "event 3: the villain dies", the villain dies, and so on and so forth.
GoldenScorpions
He/Him- 3,179
- 1,352
Then I give this to Ryoma.
If he sets Shiki as the "villain" and manipulates the plot even further with his cards, then he'll just be doubly-untouchable. Shiki won't start with time/law manipulation anyway, and Ryoma setting her as "villain" is the obvious thing to do in a deathmatch. The moment he does that, he won't be able to be messed with.
If he sets Shiki as the "villain" and manipulates the plot even further with his cards, then he'll just be doubly-untouchable. Shiki won't start with time/law manipulation anyway, and Ryoma setting her as "villain" is the obvious thing to do in a deathmatch. The moment he does that, he won't be able to be messed with.
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- Thread starter
- #5
Well to ryoma everyone is the villain, he is sort of insane, he himself became the villain really but everyone who is against him is the villain in his mind. He manipulated the plot so that his family would be killed, cause that's how it usually is in stories, the protagonist's family dies, and he didn't give care that he did that, as there would be some sort of resurrection event in the future anyway.
But yea he is also pretty trigger happy when it comes to manipulating the plot as well.
1 for ryoma.
But yea he is also pretty trigger happy when it comes to manipulating the plot as well.
1 for ryoma.
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- Thread starter
- #7
Literally the only good pic of him there is.
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- Thread starter
- #9
Truth, neechan wa chunnibyou is a light novel with no manga or anime, and no one post like illustrations for it, only illustrations you have are those in the light novel, and this is the best one there is for ryouma, the only other one he has you an't even see his full body or much of his face really.
Since you're here, who are you voting for?
Since you're here, who are you voting for?
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- Thread starter
- #11
For reasons above i assume?
Yea it's a pretty fun LN, it's metafiction really, where the characters themselves are characters in stories.
Yea it's a pretty fun LN, it's metafiction really, where the characters themselves are characters in stories.
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- 20,930
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- Thread starter
- #14
Bump
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I want to say Shiki but I have to go with stalmate. Even though Takei will view Shiki as an 'Villan' I don't see Shiki viewing him as an enemy or will try to kill him since it's 'in character' and I'm sure that'll make a huge difference then if she was trying to kill him.
Because of Shiki's apathetic nature I doubt she'll ever initiate the battle and I'm sure Takei can't 'force' her to fight her due to her connection to Akasha. While I am sure that Takei can 'create' many 'events' that could end with Shiki dying, I don't think all will be able to kill her due to her MEoDP, which has been shown to even be able to kill a 'predetermined future', so I'm guessing she can do the same here even if it's only to a lesser degreee.
So while I want to say Shiki with maybe K.O.(you only need to knock them out once to win) I'm going with tie just to be safe
Because of Shiki's apathetic nature I doubt she'll ever initiate the battle and I'm sure Takei can't 'force' her to fight her due to her connection to Akasha. While I am sure that Takei can 'create' many 'events' that could end with Shiki dying, I don't think all will be able to kill her due to her MEoDP, which has been shown to even be able to kill a 'predetermined future', so I'm guessing she can do the same here even if it's only to a lesser degreee.
So while I want to say Shiki with maybe K.O.(you only need to knock them out once to win) I'm going with tie just to be safe
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- Thread starter
- #16
Well, the events ryoma create happen instantly, there is no lag time, and it's just him manipulating the plot, it's not future/fate manipulation, it's literally like ryoma is the author and he is deciding how the story should go.
As he explains it "Plot convenience doesn't mean that the story always proceeds in ways convenient for the protagonist," he told her. "It means, more precisely, that events will conveniently occur to move the story in the direction the writer wants it to go. Which means I don't actually know if things are proceeding in my favor, do I?" "That's true," Ende said. There are unlucky protagonists out there where nothing they do works out, and they always end up at rock bottom. So how do you use those cards?" Ende looked and saw that all the cards had the same pattern to them. They probably had two sides. "These are event cards," he said. "They let me choose what's going to happen next."
A black hole opened in the ceiling of Ende's library. A girl fell from it, and Ryoma hurried to catch her. "Amazing... it really takes effect that quickly?" Ende was impressed. When an Outer controlled destiny, they basically had to nudge the related entities into place over time, but Ryoma's ability was completely direct, influencing the principles of causality themselves"
He basically becomes the writer, so he is the one controlling the plot now, and it's not just plot convenience anymore, or maybe you could say he is the one causing the plot convience now, instead of just being the object of it before i guess.
As he explains it "Plot convenience doesn't mean that the story always proceeds in ways convenient for the protagonist," he told her. "It means, more precisely, that events will conveniently occur to move the story in the direction the writer wants it to go. Which means I don't actually know if things are proceeding in my favor, do I?" "That's true," Ende said. There are unlucky protagonists out there where nothing they do works out, and they always end up at rock bottom. So how do you use those cards?" Ende looked and saw that all the cards had the same pattern to them. They probably had two sides. "These are event cards," he said. "They let me choose what's going to happen next."
A black hole opened in the ceiling of Ende's library. A girl fell from it, and Ryoma hurried to catch her. "Amazing... it really takes effect that quickly?" Ende was impressed. When an Outer controlled destiny, they basically had to nudge the related entities into place over time, but Ryoma's ability was completely direct, influencing the principles of causality themselves"
He basically becomes the writer, so he is the one controlling the plot now, and it's not just plot convenience anymore, or maybe you could say he is the one causing the plot convience now, instead of just being the object of it before i guess.
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Even still I say stalmate. I can't see him manipulating Shiki directly due to her connection to Akasha and even if they are instant I'm willing to bet SHiki can handle some of them. I might not know the real meaning for him but I'm still sticking to it.
For her kill the 'predetermined event' here's the passage because I doubt I can explain it properly.
Her eyes / shined blue / and stared the surroundings filled with "future".
A child and his parents appeared from the elevator. Next moment, he pushed the
button. At the same time Shiki's knife flashed in the air.
-In one second, Ryougi Shiki got 2mm metal balls all over her body and killed
instantly.- (this part was crossed off in the text)
In one second, Kuramitsu Meruka's 'sight' disappeared as if an eyeball was slashed
into two.
"AGHHHH!"
He covered his right eye feeling a sharp pain.
Ryougi Shiki approached him with no hesitation.
"HA...Why...WHY!!!"
Suddenly he lost his sight. Panicked with the pain, Meruka desperately repeated
pushing the button. But the bomb didn't respond. Problem with the fuse? or wrong
mixing of the components? or the electric failure of the remote controller? No, they
could not happen. There was no change in the future he piled up. But the bomb was
deactivated by the coincidence ignoring all of his preparations.
"It...cannot...be...!!!"
The bomber shuddered with fear for the unknown, which he'd forgotten long ago.
Meruka crouched like a fetus with the unbearable pain.
"Touko had the point. The more you know the future, the more you lose the sight. Can you hear me, bomber? You don't need your right eye now."
He heard her voice. He tried to see the way out with his left eye, but he couldn't see
his future "successfully escape from here" at all.
"If your prescience were the prediction type, you could have killed me easily. Not to
mention, you see the future too clearly."
"...!....!"
He heard her foot step within five meter. He knew he will be killed when she comes
behind the car. Prescience power was not necessary to see that outcome.
"why...why....!"
He didn't feel fear for the death. He had believed in the future. He had been tied by the
future. Why did the absolute belief and curse collapse now!?
"Why did the future change!?"
"It didn't change. There is no future in the present. You cannot deal with a thing which
doesn't exist now."
The magician said the future "measurement" was superior to the prediction because
one can intentionally determine the future. But,
"Future is invulnerable because it's not graspable. Once it takes a form, it can be
broken."
The determined future is a distinctive target for Shiki.
"I cannot kill an accident, but I can kill inevitability. Good night, bomber. Your future
was dead end from the beginning when you gave a form to the future."
It may not be as powerful but I'm assuming that shiki should be able to handle some of those events considering that it was normal shiki that killed the 'predetermined event', and with void Shiki, who was able to see every event recorded in the Akasha once she gained a personality, these events shouldn't be much of a problem for her even if she doesn't know them personally and initially.
For her kill the 'predetermined event' here's the passage because I doubt I can explain it properly.
Her eyes / shined blue / and stared the surroundings filled with "future".
A child and his parents appeared from the elevator. Next moment, he pushed the
button. At the same time Shiki's knife flashed in the air.
-In one second, Ryougi Shiki got 2mm metal balls all over her body and killed
instantly.- (this part was crossed off in the text)
In one second, Kuramitsu Meruka's 'sight' disappeared as if an eyeball was slashed
into two.
"AGHHHH!"
He covered his right eye feeling a sharp pain.
Ryougi Shiki approached him with no hesitation.
"HA...Why...WHY!!!"
Suddenly he lost his sight. Panicked with the pain, Meruka desperately repeated
pushing the button. But the bomb didn't respond. Problem with the fuse? or wrong
mixing of the components? or the electric failure of the remote controller? No, they
could not happen. There was no change in the future he piled up. But the bomb was
deactivated by the coincidence ignoring all of his preparations.
"It...cannot...be...!!!"
The bomber shuddered with fear for the unknown, which he'd forgotten long ago.
Meruka crouched like a fetus with the unbearable pain.
"Touko had the point. The more you know the future, the more you lose the sight. Can you hear me, bomber? You don't need your right eye now."
He heard her voice. He tried to see the way out with his left eye, but he couldn't see
his future "successfully escape from here" at all.
"If your prescience were the prediction type, you could have killed me easily. Not to
mention, you see the future too clearly."
"...!....!"
He heard her foot step within five meter. He knew he will be killed when she comes
behind the car. Prescience power was not necessary to see that outcome.
"why...why....!"
He didn't feel fear for the death. He had believed in the future. He had been tied by the
future. Why did the absolute belief and curse collapse now!?
"Why did the future change!?"
"It didn't change. There is no future in the present. You cannot deal with a thing which
doesn't exist now."
The magician said the future "measurement" was superior to the prediction because
one can intentionally determine the future. But,
"Future is invulnerable because it's not graspable. Once it takes a form, it can be
broken."
The determined future is a distinctive target for Shiki.
"I cannot kill an accident, but I can kill inevitability. Good night, bomber. Your future
was dead end from the beginning when you gave a form to the future."
It may not be as powerful but I'm assuming that shiki should be able to handle some of those events considering that it was normal shiki that killed the 'predetermined event', and with void Shiki, who was able to see every event recorded in the Akasha once she gained a personality, these events shouldn't be much of a problem for her even if she doesn't know them personally and initially.
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- Thread starter
- #18
Well my point was that royma's powers are plot based powers, not future manipulation, it's not the same, and if shiki doesn't have any expertise in that area, then you can't really say just cause she negated future manipulation, means it will be the same, when the plot itself has been set up so that she dies or something like that.
Unless akasha directly nullifies abilities against her or something like give her hax on that level, don't really think it helps here.
Whatever the case counting you as inconclusive.
Unless akasha directly nullifies abilities against her or something like give her hax on that level, don't really think it helps here.
Whatever the case counting you as inconclusive.
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Inconclusive FRA.
